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Thread: Bmw dealership can't make me a new key.

  1. #1
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    Bmw dealership can't make me a new key.

    My 1998 750il restoration has been very troublesome. The back story.

    1. Car wouldn't start(bad starter) Replaced the started

    2. Car still would not start but cranks(EWS tamper error code)

    3. Ignition cylinder was going bad. Then finally the key gets stuck inside and the steering wheel is locked.

    4. I got the key out. I had to drill below the steering wheel to get that to release.

    5. My diagnostic computer I set up years ago is having its on set of issue. After two days. I finally get dis & inpa running again. ( Yes I will finally do a ews sync.)

    6. Then my only key disappears from the key holder. We had a lot of family & friends over. Since then I cannot find the key!!!!

    7. Now to the bmw part. I ordered a new key only to be told the next day that the vin number is not giving them any information on the key provided with the car in order for them to lazer cut a new one. Bmw is blaming a glitch in there system. So they submitted my information to the warranty department. The dealer believes that bmw will have to re key my whole car under some kind of warranty. Which would include giving me a set of new keys door lock, trunk, glove box and ignition cylinder. And a new ews an sync everything up go figure!. Hopefully I don't come out of pocket on all of this.


    Ok my venting is over. Has anyone every experience the key situation before?
    Last edited by 740il97g; 06-19-2018 at 02:59 PM.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by 740il97g View Post
    My 1998 750il restoration has been very troublesome. The back story.

    1. Car wouldn't start(bad starter) Replaced the started

    2. Car still would not start but cranks(EWS tamper error code)

    3. Ignition cylinder was going bad. Then finally the key gets stuck inside and the steering wheel is locked.

    4. I got the key out. I had to drill below the steering wheel to get that to release.

    5. My diagnostic computer I set up years ago is having its on set of issue. After two days. I finally get dis & inpa running again. ( Yes I will finally do a ews sync.)

    6. Then my only key disappears from the key holder. We had a lot of family & friends over. Since then I cannot find the key!!!!

    7. Now to the bmw part. I ordered a new key only to be told the next day that the vin number is not giving them any information on the key provided with the car in order for them to lazer cut a new one. Bmw is blaming a glitch in there system. So they submitted my information to the warranty department. The dealer believes that bmw will have to re key my whole car under some kind of warranty. Which would include giving me a set of new keys door lock, trunk, glove box and ignition cylinder. And a new ews an sync everything up go figure!. Hopefully I don't come out of pocket on all of this.


    Ok my venting is over. Has anyone every experience the key situation before?


    Never experienced that but that sounds like the solution if they are paying for it. hopefully they take care of it. Don't forget to ask how many keys you have left if you decide to cut new keys in the future and if it will be tied to your VIN. I think we are all supposed to get 10 keys max .
    -Messan
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01740ISP View Post
    Never experienced that but that sounds like the solution if they are paying for it. hopefully they take care of it. Don't forget to ask how many keys you have left if you decide to cut new keys in the future and if it will be tied to your VIN. I think we are all supposed to get 10 keys max .
    -Messan
    That limit isn't permanent, keys can be removed just fyi.

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  4. #4
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    If they replace your system, I'm sure they will clean it out. From the factory there are 3 keys in the EWS. A plastic wallet key, valet key, and the two mains share a transponder code. When you order a new main key from BMW they send it with the main key code already installed in it. All you have to do is program the new key it to your locks. From what the Dealership told me at least.

    When Dave "The Bimmer Key Guy" did mine, I had 5. He found that strange, most he normally sees is 4. He showed me the programming process, and it's true there are 10 slots total. I guess it's possible to program a new transponder with an existing code, but from what I gather it's easier (and maybe so you don't have to break the key open??) To just add a key to the EWS. I'm unclear about what it takes to program a transponder itself. Seems cloning an existing key would be easier. But I'm not a key guy lol.

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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by 740il97g View Post
    The dealer believes that bmw will have to re key my whole car under some kind of warranty. Which would include giving me a set of new keys door lock, trunk, glove box and ignition cylinder. And a new ews an sync everything up go figure!. Hopefully I don't come out of pocket on all of this.
    If that happens...then you will get FOUR new keys which means that your NEW EWS control module will have 6 new key slots available for additional keys from BMW. If you use an aftermarket key guy/gal...then the number is endless because with an AK90...you can retrieve the ISN assigned to your EWS along with all the key codes already assigned to the 4 slots BMW has already used...and they can rewrite those numbers to whatever number of replacement keys you want...along with still using the remaining 6 empty slots in your new EWS control module. Again, BMW can NOT do what your aftermarket keysmith can do...they can only write new keys to the empty slots...or activate/deactivate existing key slots as you lose/find keys and have them removed or added.

    Quote Originally Posted by 01740ISP View Post
    Don't forget to ask how many keys you have left if you decide to cut new keys in the future and if it will be tied to your VIN. I think we are all supposed to get 10 keys max .
    -Messan
    BMW can only give him six more keys if he gets a new EWS control module along with a new set of keys (4 keys come to a set). The only reason BMW can give you a total of ten keys is...that's how many keys can be coded to an EWS control module. When all those key slots are coded...there's no more room for new keys (from a BMW dealer)...so they have to sell you a new EWS control module which gives you the room for up to another 10 replacement keys.










    {EWS from the factory info}


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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qsilver7 View Post
    If that happens...then you will get FOUR new keys which means that your NEW EWS control module will have 6 new key slots available for additional keys from BMW. If you use an aftermarket key guy/gal...then the number is endless because with an AK90...you can retrieve the ISN assigned to your EWS along with all the key codes already assigned to the 4 slots BMW has already used...and they can rewrite those numbers to whatever number of replacement keys you want...along with still using the remaining 6 empty slots in your new EWS control module. Again, BMW can NOT do what your aftermarket keysmith can do...they can only write new keys to the empty slots...or activate/deactivate existing key slots as you lose/find keys and have them removed or added.



    BMW can only give him six more keys if he gets a new EWS control module along with a new set of keys (4 keys come to a set). The only reason BMW can give you a total of ten keys is...that's how many keys can be coded to an EWS control module. When all those key slots are coded...there's no more room for new keys (from a BMW dealer)...so they have to sell you a new EWS control module which gives you the room for up to another 10 replacement keys.










    {EWS from the factory info}


    Thank you guys for the feed back. Ill keep everyone posted on what happens and insure I get the proper amount of keys. I'm still baffled on how this situation is even possible. But if all goes well. Its a win for me.

  7. #7
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    Some times this happens they probably have the info they just need to find it or we have had to send a picture of the key to BMW. But it seems quite odd that they would suggest that they would preform a warranty repair to rekey the car that old

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by jclausen View Post
    But it seems quite odd that they would suggest that they would [perform] a warranty repair to rekey the car that old...
    Based on the info from the OP...I can see why BMW is on the hook & possibly stepping up to the plate. According to BMW's documents and replacement key procedure...they (BMW) are "officially" the only ones that have the EWS/ISN data that is written to the EWS control module based on a car's VIN as it rolls off the assembly line (see 1st-time initialization & procuring replacement key info above). If they (BMW) are supposed to be the only ones that have access to the data base where this vital information is stored...and you present them with a VALID VIN and when they go to access the database to recover the data and it is corrupted...then they (BMW) has failed to honor their end of the deal. There was no "end-of-warranty" or time "sunset" in regards to providing keys to owners. And the "glitch" occurred on their end of things...not the owner.

    The right thing to do is to provide owners with keys...if they can't recover their own data...then they have to come up with some way to make things right. Does that mean a completely new EWS set-up with new keys? Would BMW actually turn to an aftermarket key replacement like using an AK90 (probably not)? Did they lose not only the EWS/ISN...but it reads as if they lost the VIN data which also means they don't know the cut of the blade...which would mean all new keys (set) and all new lock cylinders (trunk/driver's door/glovebox/ignition). WOW!


    Quote Originally Posted by 740iL97g
    7. Now to the bmw part. I ordered a new key only to be told the next day that the vin number is not giving them any information on the key provided with the car in order for them to lazer cut a new one. BMW is blaming a glitch in [their] system. So they submitted my information to the warranty department. The dealer believes that bmw will have to re key my whole car under some kind of warranty. Which would include giving me a set of new keys door lock, trunk, glove box and ignition cylinder. And a new ews an sync everything up go figure!. Hopefully I don't come out of pocket on all of this.
    Last edited by Qsilver7; 06-21-2018 at 10:56 AM.
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  9. #9
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    Update!! Bmw just contacted me. They are going to re-key the whole car under warranty. But I was told they longer manufacturer the majority of the parts needed. But they where able to source them from a bmw in California. I will get the car towed to bmw beginning of next week. Hopefully after they are done I will be able to drive the car home.

  10. #10
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    Update!!!!

    From Service Adviser from Bmw

    At this point we have gotten everything installed properly and the vehicle still will not start. No fuel pressure is just one issue. We have multiple areas where the vehicle has been modified or tampered with. I was informed Bmw will no longer cover additional labor time to diagnose why the vehicle will not start. They need 7 hours of approved diagnoses time by you. The cost would be 1,113.

    First thing. The only aftermarket component is the radio. The steering wheel is a m sport wheel maybe they are counting that also. But none of that would prevent the car from starting. Once I get the car. I will pull the codes to see what else maybe going on.

    The tech told me he was unable to align the new ews. I'm hoping its because they are unable to virginized the DMEs. To the allow the new Ews to align with them. So once I get the car back I will send everything off to Dima. I hope that works. Car has been down for 3 months now!!

  11. #11
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    Yea I'm still surprised that BMW did that, what a mess, the service manager must be kicking him self in that's about this

  12. #12
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    Oh boy. They replaced keys, locks and EWS unit but if they do not have the data from the database, it is obvious that they could not have ordered the proper EWS unit for your car. Basically, the system consists of 4 parts:
    - locks
    - keys with transponders belonging to the EWS
    - EWS
    - DME

    Funny thing is, that:
    EWS, keys and locks are made according to the database and the EWS unit itself contains not only the data for the keys, but also the ISN code for the DME. All of tihs from the factory. The only thing needs to be done normally (which means if they order the EWS, keys and locks by VIN and BMW has this in their database), is to do the proper coding (write ZCS, encode the new EWS so that it knows which transmission is in the car and how many cylinders the engine has so that it can check if the engine is running or not by the revolution count) and in case the car is equipped with EWS3 system (I do not mean the box, but the system - from 3/97 on the box is always EWS3 or EWS4.3 if replaced after 9/2005 for new, but eg. for single vanos M52 or M51 diesel the system in the box was always EWS2) then they need to resync the EWS with the DME, which can only be done if the transponder in the key is accepted by the EWS.

    On the opposite, if you order a new DME, it is not programmed at all - no VIN, no mileage, no software (when programming you can choose the complete software from the ETK programmed ECU list) and !!!no ISN for EWS!!!. Once a new DME is installed, for the first time it is synced with the EWS it stores the whole ISN in the memory. For the first time after installation, it can be synced with ANY EWS with the same system which the DME itself has. This is called "virgin state" of the DME (ECU). Any next time, it only can be synced with the EWS it belongs to, meaning the EWS it was synced with for the first time.

    With EWS2 system, this can be solved quite easily with INPA - just read the correct ISN from the DME and write it to the EWS. With EWS3 system you would need to read the full dump from the DMEs (as M73 has two ECUs) and virginize them. I am not sure if anyone found a solution for these ECUs, in our country they are very rare and I can not tell as I never did any virgin DME for this engine.

    I would only guess now what could have happened:a) they used EWS, keys and locks for another car, another VIN. This is very likely if they did not have the data for your VIN in their database. This means, they probably also did not have proper ISN to write in the EWS.
    b) they used a proper EWS but your cluster comes from another car. As the ZCS is only stored in EWS and IKE/KOMBI, when replacing the EWS they could have either left the original EWS and read the ZCS from it and transfer it to the new EWS, or they could have installed the new EWS first and then take the ZCS from the cluster, which could be incorrect. Eg. if the cluster would be from 728i made up to 8/98 and they would use the coding from it, the code "EWS3_schnitstelle" would be "nicht_aktiv" but in case you have EWS3 system with syncable codes, you would need to have it "aktiv". Be careful with this option!!! Once you change it from "nicht_aktiv" to "aktiv", there is almost no way back but ordering a new EWS or having quite strong skills in repairing the data in EWS itself using a programmer.

    I am not sure what they actually did but above you have some hints, hope this helps you a bit.

    PS: The easiest thing to do would be to get the old EWS, read the data, write a new transponder and put it in the key you got from BMW. Then you should be able to allign the old EWS to the DME again.
    Last edited by Fx323i; 07-16-2018 at 03:30 PM.
    Martin Voigts
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fx323i View Post
    Oh boy. They replaced keys, locks and EWS unit but if they do not have the data from the database, it is obvious that they could not have ordered the proper EWS unit for your car. Basically, the system consists of 4 parts:
    - locks
    - keys with transponders belonging to the EWS
    - EWS
    - DME

    Funny thing is, that:
    EWS, keys and locks are made according to the database and the EWS unit itself contains not only the data for the keys, but also the ISN code for the DME. All of tihs from the factory. The only thing needs to be done normally (which means if they order the EWS, keys and locks by VIN and BMW has this in their database), is to do the proper coding (write ZCS, encode the new EWS so that it knows which transmission is in the car and how many cylinders the engine has so that it can check if the engine is running or not by the revolution count) and in case the car is equipped with EWS3 system (I do not mean the box, but the system - from 3/97 on the box is always EWS3 or EWS4.3 if replaced after 9/2005 for new, but eg. for single vanos M52 or M51 diesel the system in the box was always EWS2) then they need to resync the EWS with the DME, which can only be done if the transponder in the key is accepted by the EWS.

    On the opposite, if you order a new DME, it is not programmed at all - no VIN, no mileage, no software (when programming you can choose the complete software from the ETK programmed ECU list) and !!!no ISN for EWS!!!. Once a new DME is installed, for the first time it is synced with the EWS it stores the whole ISN in the memory. For the first time after installation, it can be synced with ANY EWS with the same system which the DME itself has. This is called "virgin state" of the DME (ECU). Any next time, it only can be synced with the EWS it belongs to, meaning the EWS it was synced with for the first time.

    With EWS2 system, this can be solved quite easily with INPA - just read the correct ISN from the DME and write it to the EWS. With EWS3 system you would need to read the full dump from the DMEs (as M73 has two ECUs) and virginize them. I am not sure if anyone found a solution for these ECUs, in our country they are very rare and I can not tell as I never did any virgin DME for this engine.

    I would only guess now what could have happened:a) they used EWS, keys and locks for another car, another VIN. This is very likely if they did not have the data for your VIN in their database. This means, they probably also did not have proper ISN to write in the EWS.
    b) they used a proper EWS but your cluster comes from another car. As the ZCS is only stored in EWS and IKE/KOMBI, when replacing the EWS they could have either left the original EWS and read the ZCS from it and transfer it to the new EWS, or they could have installed the new EWS first and then take the ZCS from the cluster, which could be incorrect. Eg. if the cluster would be from 728i made up to 8/98 and they would use the coding from it, the code "EWS3_schnitstelle" would be "nicht_aktiv" but in case you have EWS3 system with syncable codes, you would need to have it "aktiv". Be careful with this option!!! Once you change it from "nicht_aktiv" to "aktiv", there is almost no way back but ordering a new EWS or having quite strong skills in repairing the data in EWS itself using a programmer.

    I am not sure what they actually did but above you have some hints, hope this helps you a bit.

    PS: The easiest thing to do would be to get the old EWS, read the data, write a new transponder and put it in the key you got from BMW. Then you should be able to allign the old EWS to the DME again.

    Thank you for the information. As it stands no one has been able to align the new ews with my dme. Bmw installed a EWS 4.3 in my car. Its stating mismatched parts between the DME/EWS. I contacted the dealership an Ive gotten no response as of yet. I put in a complaint with BMWNA. My patience is gone. I love the car but now I feel like parting ways. I'm going to fight bmw on this for the next few days. In the meantime I will try to do as you and Dima advised. If i'm not able to resolve this we may see another m73 part out shortly.
    Last edited by 740il97g; 07-18-2018 at 10:42 AM.

  14. #14
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    Getting EWS4.3 is normal, this control unit replaced EWS3 in 9/2005 and is backwards compatible. This means, cars produced in 9/2005 and later (late E46s, E83s, E85s, E53s and maybe other models) got EWS4.3 instead and if EWS3 got broken in 9/2005 and later and it was replaced by a new control unit, it always was EWS4.3

    The main problem is, they do not have your data for VIN in the database, so they made a matching pair of EWS and key, but matching it to the ECU is another part of the story. As dealership is unable to virginize the ECU (no wonder, this is the way it works from the factory and the way BMW made the system), the only way for them is to replace the ECUs too. If the system inside was EWS2 (which still can be even though the box is EWS4.3 - but I am not certain about late M73 units as I stated before), you could easily match the ECU to DME through INPA. But I suppose the newer M73 than 3/97 had EWS3 system so the best bet would be Dima if BMW won't do what I would expect.
    Martin Voigts
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fx323i View Post
    Getting EWS4.3 is normal, this control unit replaced EWS3 in 9/2005 and is backwards compatible. This means, cars produced in 9/2005 and later (late E46s, E83s, E85s, E53s and maybe other models) got EWS4.3 instead and if EWS3 got broken in 9/2005 and later and it was replaced by a new control unit, it always was EWS4.3

    The main problem is, they do not have your data for VIN in the database, so they made a matching pair of EWS and key, but matching it to the ECU is another part of the story. As dealership is unable to virginize the ECU (no wonder, this is the way it works from the factory and the way BMW made the system), the only way for them is to replace the ECUs too. If the system inside was EWS2 (which still can be even though the box is EWS4.3 - but I am not certain about late M73 units as I stated before), you could easily match the ECU to DME through INPA. But I suppose the newer M73 than 3/97 had EWS3 system so the best bet would be Dima if BMW won't do what I would expect.

    Dima wasnt able to make it work. He believes the Ews Bmw gave me is faulty. Every system he used complained about mismatched hardware. Without waiting on Bmw. He said I can try to source someone selling Dmes ews and key. Remove the chip,mount it near the ews and use the keys bmw gave me so I wont have to re-keyed the car again. So far Ive only track down one. In Japan on ebay.

  16. #16
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    What happened to the original EWS which was fitted in the car previously?
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fx323i View Post
    What happened to the original EWS which was fitted in the car previously?

    Bmw has it

  18. #18
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    The best bet would be to get the original EWS unit back, read the data from it and put it back to the car, make a new transponder according to the data in the EWS and you should be good to go. Backup the data for a future case if the EWS unit went wrong.
    Martin Voigts
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fx323i View Post
    The best bet would be to get the original EWS unit back, read the data from it and put it back to the car, make a new transponder according to the data in the EWS and you should be good to go. Backup the data for a future case if the EWS unit went wrong.

    So Bmw told me they sent it back to Bmw. I found a whole set a modules online I just ordered. It has both dmes, ews ,gm key and all of the locks. I plan on keeping all the existing locks and just remove the chip. Since bmw gave me 4 keys. I hope that works. I emailed BMWNA so hopefully they a reimburse me for this or something. This is my last attempt to save this car. If all fails. I got my eye on a few Supercharged Jaquar xjls.

  20. #20
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    Update!! For those who reached out to me thank you.

    I ordered Dmes and a ews which came with a key, transmission computer and locks from a 98 750i in Japan. Everything arrived today and it fired right up. I few kinks to work out but shes running. The 750i came with steptronic. So my guage clusters gear lights are not highlighted. I left the original transmission computer in the car maybe plugging in the 750i one will fix that. So it looks like ill be doing a steptronic retro fit as a added bonus. I'll make a trip to the junkyard to locate the linkage. Do I also need to code the gauge cluster?

  21. #21
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    Glad you got it going. Sucks that BMW dropped the ball on this one though.
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