Power Steering Pump to Gear box bolt

[Jerry Scholder]

I know this has been discussed before, but it's hard to believe there is a 19mm socket shallow enough to fit into this small space; another special tool? Is taking out the alternator housing a simpler way to attack this bolt? I saw the wobbler tool and that doesn't look like it would fit. I saw plik's pictures and his looks like he has a better space between the lower valve cover and bolt. Any additional tricks known would be appreciated. Power Steering Box.jpg

[bmwdirtracer]

What are you trying to accomplish, Jerry?

Am I correct that the thing in the way is a heat shield? If so, just wedge a screwdriver in there and bend the SOB out of the way.

[ross1]

You won't need these often but when you do.......



https://www.mscdirect.com/browse/tnp...yABEgLgavD_BwE

[shadowpuck]

along the lines of "when you need them you need them" - got a set of these for Xmas and they've come in handy a couple of times already.

http://www.tite-reach.com/

[ross1]

along the lines of "when you need them you need them" - got a set of these for Xmas and they've come in handy a couple of times already.

http://www.tite-reach.com/

[Jerry Scholder]

What are you trying to accomplish, Jerry?

Am I correct that the thing in the way is a heat shield? If so, just wedge a screwdriver in there and bend the SOB out of the way.

Thanks for the reply. I'm trying to use the smallest ratchet (1/4 inch or 1/2 inch) with the smallest (height) socket available to fit over a 19mm bolt that has a thick supporting frame above it, leaving very little room for the ratchet with socket attached. It's on the Steering Gear box to the left of the 22mm bolt. The heat shield is no issue. Normally, the socket is placed on the head first and the ratchet lays down against the valve cover and is placed over the socket with a wobble socket adapter; (PLIK post 2007.) There appears to be a minor crease in the frame above to get a socket on it, but my other Model 740i 2001 has a lot more space than this does. I will of course be removing both hoses at some point. In summary, find some way to get that darn 19mm nut loose and out. Oh yeah, once I get it loose I can only hope there is enough room to pull it up and out.

[Jerry Scholder]

You won't need these often but when you do.......



https://www.mscdirect.com/browse/tnp...yABEgLgavD_BwE

Thanks for the suggestion but I've bought enough new tools for the moment; China would be the last choice on my list. No offense intended.

[shadowpuck]

Thanks for the suggestion but I've bought enough new tools for the moment; China would be the last choice on my list. No offense intended.

huh? *shrug* eh, ok.

Anymore - if a tool will allow me to do a job I just buy the tool.
I wonder if a ratcheting wrench would work?

[bmwdirtracer]

Jerry, everyone here knows that I abhor Chinese parts on any BMW. I scream bloody murder when asked to install them. But you know, I own maybe $70,000 worth of tools. Many of them are top-of-the-line, damned expensive! But when I'm buying a tool that I'm going to use once in a blue moon, I will absolutely buy the Chinese crap. That leaves me more money for the special tool-truck stuff that I use A LOT.

Again, I repeat: I don't like Chinese crap, but I'll save my battles for the stuff that matters, like the parts I bolt on my BMW, and the tools which are important, not something I'm going to use once every few years.

I guarantee that I have at least one wrench that'll make that bolt come loose. I have stepped wrenches, from 6mm to 32 mm, I have u-jointed sockets; some impact, some shallow chrome. I have 19 mm wrenches that are heated and bent every which way, crow-foot wrenches, special Snap-On thin crow-foot wrenches....some are expensive, some are Chinese crap. All of them are useful, when their number comes up.

[Jerry Scholder]

Jerry, everyone here knows that I abhor Chinese parts on any BMW. I scream bloody murder when asked to install them. But you know, I own maybe $70,000 worth of tools. Many of them are top-of-the-line, damned expensive! But when I'm buying a tool that I'm going to use once in a blue moon, I will absolutely buy the Chinese crap. That leaves me more money for the special tool-truck stuff that I use A LOT.

Again, I repeat: I don't like Chinese crap, but I'll save my battles for the stuff that matters, like the parts I bolt on my BMW, and the tools which are important, not something I'm going to use once every few years.

I guarantee that I have at least one wrench that'll make that bolt come loose. I have stepped wrenches, from 6mm to 32 mm, I have u-jointed sockets; some impact, some shallow chrome. I have 19 mm wrenches that are heated and bent every which way, crow-foot wrenches, special Snap-On thin crow-foot wrenches....some are expensive, some are Chinese crap. All of them are useful, when their number comes up.

I don't doubt you have quality tools to do quality work. I just purchased a 4 pound 20 inch 3/4 drive ratchet, a 27mm 3/4 socket, M62 tool, Arris Vanos Solenoid Tool, impact sockets, impact wrench, breaker bar, right angle drill, Hanson Extractor set, etc. etc. etc. I will never have nor will I ever need all of the tools that a professional like yourself will need and know when they are needed. I'm just trying to work my way through the process of repairing a Timing Chain Guide issue and learning a lot of things along the way. I try to stay away from China goods. It's impossible to do all the time, but I give it my best effort and do so as a last resort. I have had one person suggest I take off the wheel and wheel well for better access to this area. Maybe it will resolve the issue without spending more money on another tool; maybe not. I'll buy the tool needed if I have to. I agree some things you just can't avoid; I just don't know what I don't know. Peace and Gratitude to all who have tried to help.

[bmwdirtracer]

Again I offer you any tool I have, on loan. I'm not quite sure which one you need here, though, because I can't adequately see the issue, sorry.

[HighandFast]

Seriously, what is the issue? I'm scratching my head on this one.

[Jerry Scholder]

Have you seen the picture? The 19mm Power Steering Gear box bolt is not only in a tight spot, but access with almost any tool is difficult. I have since learned about a "crows foot" that may do the trick. All the rest of the stuff is Misc.

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Again I offer you any tool I have, on loan. I'm not quite sure which one you need here, though, because I can't adequately see the issue, sorry.

You must be a Saint. Your advice is more than enough for me, but the offer is truly amazing.

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Maybe a "crows foot" wrench can get in the area. Keep you posted.

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huh? *shrug* eh, ok.

Anymore - if a tool will allow me to do a job I just buy the tool.
I wonder if a ratcheting wrench would work?

I hope to someday have the ability to do this also; not there yet.

[Jerry Scholder]

Just received my crows foot; hoping it solves the access problem to the 19mm bolt.

[Jerry Scholder]

Crows foot is too unstable to stay on bolt and even when I do get it on it's hard to turn it with the ratchet.

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huh? *shrug* eh, ok.

Anymore - if a tool will allow me to do a job I just buy the tool.
I wonder if a ratcheting wrench would work?

O.K. I have to agree with you and just sweat the big stuff.

[HighandFast]

I was thinking “ratcheting wrench“ before I saw the quote that included it as a suggestion. That’s what I use.

Any chance you could give us a couple more pics from different angles and distances to give us a better idea of what you were dealing with. I’ve taken that bolt off from my 97 and 04 M3‘s many times but I think they must be a poor frame of reference for your car. In fact, my bemusement at your reported difficulty was uninformed because I made the grand assumption that it was similar to what I’ve experienced. It’s not like I don’t know what they say about assumptions.

Anyway, any chance to get a pic with a socket attached to the bolt head (w/o wrench) and different angles/distances so we can get some perspective?

[bmwdirtracer]

When using a crow foot wrench, it's generally accompanied by an extension. I wish I could understand the problem, because I'm sure that I have a tool which would make easy work of it. Jerry, do you have universal-jointed sockets?

[Jerry Scholder]

I'm Begging You for a Response

​I know someone can help me with this "simple" problem that is incredibly difficult for me to get an answer to. The problem seems to be that I may be asking the question in the wrong way. I'm not even sure if the question is appropriate or if the problem is not actually a problem; I may be looking at something that is not what it appears.

I have a 2001 740i with about 200,000 miles on it. The production date is 3/2000, (not sure how it's a 2001) and listed as a 740iA. I post this because I have received diagrams that did not account for this information and the incorrect information was costly in time. I have been trying to disconnect the power steering hoses for weeks and can't find a way to disconnect the Steering Gear box hoses due to their very difficult access and inability to get a socket or wrench or crows foot or universal joint on the 19mm bolt as it is very close to the head; nearly underneath it. A picture is attached. Other than disconnecting the Gear box, I can't think of any way out of this. Has anyone had this problem and can tell me how they handled it? I can't even get someone to confirm I need to take both bolts off as everyone keeps referring to the larger 22mm bolt. Do I need a special tool/socket/?. Called BMW and they said they remove the Gear box; doubt it. The bolt is the smaller one on the left just below the banjo bolt. Is it a PS Hose bolt? Thanks for any help. (Moderator: this may be in a parallel thread in E38, but I really need an answer so I'm posting it here also.)

Last edited by Jerry Scholder; Today at 09:01 PM. Reason: structural

[bmwdirtracer]

Jerry....Please man....Why do you need this bolt off?

This picture shows no problem whatsoever with removing the bolt: why won't a universal-jointed socket fit here? I will loan you any tool I have, but I can't fathom the issue. From the picture, I see that we tweak the heat-shield out of the way, and there's pretty much a straight shot with a u-jointed socket. In fact, a regular socket with a u-joint and an extension would seem just fine, from the photo. A stepped ring-end wrench would seem to work....I really can't see your problem, I'm sorry.

But really, why do you need that bolt out anyway?

[bmwdirtracer]

EDIT: Okay, I don't understand the problem, even a little bit, because I can see the bolt, and it looks quite accessible to me.

However, you say that the head's in the way.....so, okay.....unbolt the engine mounts, and jack up the engine. 16mm nuts. If you're messing with the upper oil pan, the engine mounts should have been unbolted a long time ago anyway.

[RSharma]

The easiest way to get to that 19mm banjo bolt is to loosen the drivers side engine mount (only the single top bolt not the two bottom ones), put a piece of sturdy wood under the lower oil pan, and jack the engine up slightly to lift the engine off the mount. You should be able to get a tool on there to loosen the bolt after doing that.

[Jerry Scholder]

What are you trying to accomplish, Jerry?

Am I correct that the thing in the way is a heat shield? If so, just wedge a screwdriver in there and bend the SOB out of the way.

FYI: Problem solved by BillConn in E38 forum. The cylinder head was unusually close to the bolt due to a drivers side bad engine mount. See pics. Had I not been persistent for an answer, I probably would not have gotten this information. Lifting the engine, (new for me) resolved the engine mount replacement and the PS gear box bolts were a piece of cake with proper access. Future threads will all be combined under "Jerry's Car"; not sure if I agree with this suggestion as it does not specifically note what issue is being discussed, i.e; timing chain guides, engine mounts, power steering hose removal, etc. etc. Also, if I am unable to find an answer in the E38 forum, why shouldn't I be able to look for the answer in another forum? While I'm here; is there supposed to be just a blank hole when the engine mount is removed because as you can see, there is a large piece still attached. Should I just punch it out from the top?

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The easiest way to get to that 19mm banjo bolt is to loosen the drivers side engine mount (only the single top bolt not the two bottom ones), put a piece of sturdy wood under the lower oil pan, and jack the engine up slightly to lift the engine off the mount. You should be able to get a tool on there to loosen the bolt after doing that.

Got it. Right on the money with this one. Wish you saw this a couple of weeks back. Thanks for replying

[Jerry Scholder]

EDIT: Okay, I don't understand the problem, even a little bit, because I can see the bolt, and it looks quite accessible to me.

However, you say that the head's in the way.....so, okay.....unbolt the engine mounts, and jack up the engine. 16mm nuts. If you're messing with the upper oil pan, the engine mounts should have been unbolted a long time ago anyway.

Not messing with the upper oil pan yet, but of course that issue will have to be resolved eventually. At the end of the day, the bolt was not accessible due to the bad drivers side engine mount. Piece of cake once the engine was raised. First time for that also. Pictures should be on this thread somewhere. For future thread, I will be under "Jerry's Car" in E38 forum, unless I can't find an answer there. BillConn from E38 suggested looking at the engine mount for a possible solution. Had I not been persistent about getting an answer, I'd still be looking for one. Sometimes we forget what it was like when we were just learning about the basics once we've got the Doctorate.

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Jerry....Please man....Why do you need this bolt off?

This picture shows no problem whatsoever with removing the bolt: why won't a universal-jointed socket fit here? I will loan you any tool I have, but I can't fathom the issue. From the picture, I see that we tweak the heat-shield out of the way, and there's pretty much a straight shot with a u-jointed socket. In fact, a regular socket with a u-joint and an extension would seem just fine, from the photo. A stepped ring-end wrench would seem to work....I really can't see your problem, I'm sorry.

But really, why do you need that bolt out anyway?

Changing power steering hoses. That was the cylinder head; not a heat shield. Newbys don't get the relationship of the engine mount to the access to the bolt. I was never a good Chess player either.....

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When using a crow foot wrench, it's generally accompanied by an extension. I wish I could understand the problem, because I'm sure that I have a tool which would make easy work of it. Jerry, do you have universal-jointed sockets?

Sent the crow's foot back; thought it was not stable on the bolt and did not help.

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I was thinking “ratcheting wrench“ before I saw the quote that included it as a suggestion. That’s what I use.

Any chance you could give us a couple more pics from different angles and distances to give us a better idea of what you were dealing with. I’ve taken that bolt off from my 97 and 04 M3‘s many times but I think they must be a poor frame of reference for your car. In fact, my bemusement at your reported difficulty was uninformed because I made the grand assumption that it was similar to what I’ve experienced. It’s not like I don’t know what they say about assumptions.

Anyway, any chance to get a pic with a socket attached to the bolt head (w/o wrench) and different angles/distances so we can get some perspective?

Thanks for your interest: I did finally get some good answers that led me to the solution. I must admit, I felt pretty inept about this as I didn't even think about the engine mount causing the limited access to the bolt. The assumption was; that bolt "should" be easily accessible, so what's the issue. See pics.

[bmwdirtracer]

Note my post 20, above, regarding lifting the engine. Still, maybe you'd have benefited from a set of these:

crowfoot.jpg


You can certainly post your questions here, Jerry.

[Jerry Scholder]

Resolved the access issue to remove the bolts. Engine mount replacement on drivers side ran into a little problem. The remaining part of the engine mount is seriously wedged on its position. Looking at the shape of the bad engine mount who could be surprised it wouldn't just pop out. I've tried punching it from on top, a crow bar from the bottom, a sledge hammer won't budge it, I raised the engine as far as I dare and don't know how much is too much; even though I don's think that's the problem because the stud is hardly able to be seen on top. Took off two washers from the top; don't know why. Check out the pictures. 2001 740i e38.engine mount removed.jpgIMG_20180705_184636111.jpgengine mount top.jpgengine mount drvr side.jpgengine mount bad.jpg I have posted this question in the E38 forum and will reply when I have this solved. I hope this isn't considered multiple posting......

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Note my post 20, above, regarding lifting the engine. Still, maybe you'd have benefited from a set of these:

crowfoot.jpg


You can certainly post your questions here, Jerry.

Nice set of crow's feet; just doesn't sound right....