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Thread: Going lean. pump or injectors? e85.

  1. #1
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    Going lean. pump or injectors? e85.

    wtf lean by jet jones, on Flickr


    So as you can see i'm at about 14.5 afr @ 6,000 rpms on 17psi. it's a m30b35 with a turbo cam from cat cams and big ring gap.

    it's using an intank walbro 255 stock wiring and seimens 80lb injectors.
    This is not a final tune. just taking it out on e85 see how it goes. usually on meth+91.
    Raced a new camero s. s on this run too.

    are the injectors trying to max out because the pump is maxing out or are the injectors just done at low boost?
    i'm sorta skeptical that the injectors are maxed out already but idk. Thanks for the advice.
    Last edited by Robocop; 06-12-2018 at 05:40 AM.

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    If all you have is a Walbro 255 on stock wiring, it might support 400 rwhp on E85 but even that could be risky depending on voltage and fuel pressure and the particular model 255. The 80 lb injectors on E85 can support more like 600 rwhp. My guess is the pump is insufficient.

  3. #3
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    Logging fuel pressure would help determine this quickly, but its the pump. 80% DC on those injectors are fine.
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  4. #4
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    You need two of those pumps to max out the injectors


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    pump suggestions?

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    F90000274 or the new F90000285 will do what you need... with a rewire of course as they are very power hungry (high AMP draw).

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    ^ will the walbro 450 f90000267 be ok?
    i'm still looking and allot of the $90 pumps have me worried about knock offs. :/
    Last edited by Robocop; 06-14-2018 at 09:08 PM.

  8. #8
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    You should be fine with a 267 at your ~17 psi of boost and a 4 bar regulator, but you really won't have any headroom to safely increase boost from there. You want to stay below 80 psi on the 267, because the relief valve starts opening there, and you really don't want to push it to where it could start fluttering. Even at 17 psi and a 4 bar regulator you're getting a bit dangerous playing it so close to the relief valve under boost.

    I would recommend going to the 274 at a minimum on a new pump install. It'll give you headroom to bump up the pressure a tad if you start to max out your injector DC. The 285 is nice, with a ~10% bump in flow, but the amperage goes up even more, and they're kinda pricey right now unless you really need that extra flow.

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    Correct me if im wrong, but if you were running out of fuel you would be at 100% duty cycle. Did you add fuel to your map once you changed to e85?

    Id expect if you were running out of pump. the injectors would be pegged to 100% and yet your afr continues to climb. Surprised it didnt pop at that afr.
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    Quote Originally Posted by euro2fast4u View Post
    Correct me if im wrong, but if you were running out of fuel you would be at 100% duty cycle. Did you add fuel to your map once you changed to e85?

    Id expect if you were running out of pump. the injectors would be pegged to 100% and yet your afr continues to climb. Surprised it didnt pop at that afr.
    Pretty sure that the injectors aren't going to max out if the pump is maxed. Thinking out loud here, but the injectors are set to open for xxx pulsewidth, or duty cycle, at a given load in anticipation of a given fuel pressure. If that pressure is lower than what is anticipated (i.e. the pump is maxed our or failing), they will still open the same amount, but there will be less fuel flowing through. The opposite would be true in the case of a failing FPR. In this case, since duty cycle is calculated independently of pressure, the AFRs climb slowly as a result of falling fuel pressure.

    OP - you deff need more pump. Be sure to check what the e85 flow ratings for pumps.
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  11. #11
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    na, i can change DC to 100% by upping the VE table but it didn't want to go past 13afr
    from an avg VE of 140 to 200. it's done.


    What do you wizards think of this?
    Surge tank with an in-tank wally450e85

    i was told by an e30 racer that the 8mm lines wont' support allot of power
    need 12mm lines.
    so this seems ideal perhaps.

    $559.95
    http://www.radiumauto.com/FST-Fuel-S...dard-P515.aspx
    Last edited by Robocop; 06-15-2018 at 11:51 PM.

  12. #12
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    Check the micro filters in the injectors
    Most likely your issue.
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  13. #13
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    That's a very strange suggestion but i'll look into it.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robocop View Post
    ^ will the walbro 450 f90000267 be ok?
    i'm still looking and allot of the $90 pumps have me worried about knock offs. :/
    Easy way to avoid knock offs is to buy from a reputable reseller... I wouldn't bother with the 267 as the 274 is the same price ($99 USD).. for instance @ racetronix.biz

  15. #15
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    ^ ya i bought it off of real st on ebay they charged more but at least
    i know it's legit. Will save it for the near future using a surge tank.



    So the problem seems to be fixed. Wired the pump to the batt w/ 14g.

    Rewired gss341 by jet jones, on Flickr





    it's using a MBC so boost is shit but, AFR seems great now, it still goes to 80% DC about 15-16psi at higher rpms so based on you guys saying the injectors can handle more power. i'll assume pump is still struggling, but at least it's at a safe afr.


    Check out the tiny stock wires

    Stock pump wires by jet jones, on Flickr
    Pump wire upgrayedd by jet jones, on Flickr
    Last edited by Robocop; 06-19-2018 at 04:42 AM.

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    HAHA! Glad you found it.

    Don't visit here much. :/
    Last edited by ForcedFirebird; 07-02-2018 at 04:52 PM.
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