Member
Hi all, 1995 525i 5SPD 278k
I had the infamous wheel shimmy for two weeks. It came to a point I couldn't drive over 50mph because the shimmy was too great. I purchased a pair of Thrust arms.
I put on the right one (didn't tighten the bushing bolt yet) on with no issues, now I am trying to remove the left thrust arm but, as I try to loosen the ball joint nut, the ball joint spins as well.
Is there a way to prevent the joint from spinning? I had no problem loosening the right side because the joint was stuck but, the left side spins with the nut and I don't see anything at the base of the bolt to insert a tool to hold the joint in place while loosening the nut.
Is there a trick that I can try to keep the joint from moving while trying to loosen the nut?
Thanks in advance!!
Old BMW's FTW
Yeah, you can try putting a jack under the ball joint, that'll put some pressure on it and hopefully prevent it from spinning while you undo the nut.
1995 525i 5-speed - Thread
Member
I can try that but, what happens when the nut is at the lowest point, where it meets the jack? What do I do from there?
Member
The tread of the thrust arm is pointing downward, so I don't think jacking would work. What I do is hit the ball joint with a hammer to sink it further into the hole. That would prevent the tread from spinning. Also don't use too much force when loosening also to avoid spinning the tread. When you've sufficiently loosened the nut, maybe you can now slot in a plier or vice grip between the gap to hold the tread. Ruining the tread won't matter since you're replacing it anyway.
shade tree mechanic
Moderator
I usually do it this way http://www.bimmernut.com/forum/showt...605#post348605
Shogun tricks and tips for the E32 series are HERE!
Member
Shogun, his problem is that the ball joint rotates together with the nut when he tries to loosen it.
Member
If there's no allen key slot at the base (there's wasn't one for my lower control arm, but there was for swaybar and upper), I had to use an impact wrench. Can you borrow or rent one? You may need one for reassembly anyway as I think my meyle HD lower arms had the same problem during installation.
Member
Use the biggest Channel Lock pliers to apply force to the joint while you unscrew the nut. Or some kind of leverage on the ball joint to keep the taper in the hole.
Member
This is my preferred method. Keep whacking it with a lump hammer to ensure the taper is tight in the hole. Move the nut a bit and then back it off again so you are cleaning the threads as you go. If you can get a tiny gap between the nut and the housing, you might try driving an old screwdriver into it. It may give you the quarter turn that makes the difference.Originally Posted by cirrusblau
If that doesn't work and you have room, use an angle grinder or nut splitter on the nut. If all else fails, you may be down to cutting it off with a hacksaw blade. Murphy's law dictates that it is the last bit of the nut that is the problem. So you will probably have to knock ten bells out of the C shaped piece of nut which remains.
On the plus side, you know that you should not have much difficulty getting the tapered part out of the hole afterwards
Member
Thanks for all of your suggestions. I used a C clamp to push down the arm and I was able to break free the nut. The issue is, I can't get the wheel off because of a stripped frozen lug bolt so, I have to work around the wheel. I have an Irwin 17mm bolt extractor hammered into the lug bolt but, since it uses a 3/8th drive, I keep snapping the bit from the breaker bar. Since the bolt extractor is hex shaped, I can put a 22mm 1/2 drive on the extractor but, the lug bolts are recessed in so, the 22mm socket can't fit in the recess hole. UGH.. That's my luck..
Member
Would a 1/2 to 3/8 dropdown adapter work? I think mine is WWII surplus
Member
I don't have one and in the past those adapters would snap. I'm just going to have to bang in the 22mm socket and damage the rima tad.
Update: I put on the thrust arm, tightened the joint and left the bolts at the bushings loose. I'm waiting for the suspension to settle, then put it on the ramps and tighten the bushing bolts..
I looked at the old thrust arms and the bushings seem ok. I looked at everything else and everything seems fine. I'm still wondering what would cause the wheel shimmy and steering wandering if the old thrust arm bushings seem fine...
MORΩN ΛABIA
BMW CCA Member
That's a weird problem. Thrust arm studs are often too tight on removal to come out without lots of grunting, swearing, and heavy tools; removing the nut is usually the least of the worries (unless some idiot uses a low-profile 23mm like I once had to deal with). Or they're too loose on installation to spin the nut on. Never heard of this one before. I use anti-seize on tapered cones to make removal easier, and even then never had this problem.
E34 front suspensions are fussy. The slightest wheel imbalance or other imperfection (hubcentric rings) can cause the 55mph shimmy. Thrust arms have to be severely bad to cause steering wander. Look elsewhere (steering linkage or rear subframe mounts). What wheels are you running?
You did this with the wheel on?Respect, no envy. Did you try to remove the knuckle from the car, with arms still attached to it, letting the wheel dangle on the strut? Anti-seize and restraint from air tools (to tighten the lug nuts) are your friends...
Regarding wheel removal: if you can force the bolt loose without damaging the wheel, great. Impact works much better than steady torque. PB Blaster helps too (try to shoot it onto the back of the hub, if you can reach in there), but I would not use heat in this case. If that doesn't work, get some good drill bits and cutting oil, put on your Patience Hat, and drill into the bolt, starting with smaller bits for a pilot and ending with 3/8" or 10mm. Then get some protective wood planks and a sledgehammer, and pound the wheel off, which should snap what's left of the bolt head as the ~1mm circle of metal remaining is weak.
If you have the bolt style that has a hole in the middle, that'll make it much easier and you might skip up to the biggest bit that'll fit in the hole (for correct centering). If the pounding threatens to damage the wheel, move up to a 1/2" bit, which is slightly bigger than the 12mm thread and should take the bolt head clean off if centered correctly.
Because the wheels are hub-centric, I'd worry less about drilling away a little material from the lug hole than about cracking or bending the rim. I recently used this technique to save a good brake rotor whose set bolt had rounded (again, someone forgot the anti-seize), and it worked like a charm. With the tension relieved from the (broken) bolt, and lots of its threads exposed, it's much easier to extract the remains once the wheel, or rotor in my case, is off.
Last edited by moroza; 06-10-2018 at 06:37 PM.
Member
Oh yes... I replaced the thrust arm with the wheel on, since I couldn't break free the frozen lug bolt. It wasn't too bad. I had the front on jack stands. I did not remove the knuckle. It honestly wasn't that hard with the wheel on. I had to turn the wheels a couple of times to get the ball joint remover adjusted in a good position but, for the most part, it went better than the other side that had the wheel off. Once both were installed, I drove it on the ramps, went under, and tightened the bushing bolts.. I took the car for a test drive and it felt fantastic! Nice and stiff, no veering to the right, no clunking over bumps. What a huge difference!That's a weird problem. Thrust arm studs are often too tight on removal to come out without lots of grunting, swearing, and heavy tools; removing the nut is usually the least of the worries (unless some idiot uses a low-profile 23mm like I once had to deal with). Or they're too loose on installation to spin the nut on. Never heard of this one before. I use anti-seize on tapered cones to make removal easier, and even then never had this problem.
E34 front suspensions are fussy. The slightest wheel imbalance or other imperfection (hubcentric rings) can cause the 55mph shimmy. Thrust arms have to be severely bad to cause steering wander. Look elsewhere (steering linkage or rear subframe mounts). What wheels are you running?
You did this with the wheel on?
Regarding wheel removal: if you can force the bolt loose without damaging the wheel, great. Impact works much better than steady torque. PB Blaster helps too (try to shoot it onto the back of the hub, if you can reach in there), but I would not use heat in this case. If that doesn't work, get some good drill bits and cutting oil, put on your Patience Hat, and drill into the bolt, starting with smaller bits for a pilot and ending with 3/8" or 10mm. Then get some protective wood planks and a sledgehammer, and pound the wheel off, which should snap what's left of the bolt head as the ~1mm circle of metal remaining is weak.
If you have the bolt style that has a hole in the middle, that'll make it much easier and you might skip up to the biggest bit that'll fit in the hole (for correct centering). If the pounding threatens to damage the wheel, move up to a 1/2" bit, which is slightly bigger than the 12mm thread and should take the bolt head clean off if centered correctly.
Because the wheels are hub-centric, I'd worry less about drilling away a little material from the lug hole than about cracking or bending the rim. I recently used this technique to save a good brake rotor whose set bolt had rounded (again, someone forgot the anti-seize), and it worked like a charm. With the tension relieved from the (broken) bolt, and lots of its threads exposed, it's much easier to extract the remains once the wheel, or rotor in my case, is off.
MORΩN ΛABIA
BMW CCA Member
Clunking and veering suggests bad balljoints, rather than bushings.
Member
I never even thought about that.... Thanks!!
Member
The head is stripped or the bolt is cross threaded? If you can tighten it try doing so until it breaks off, you can then remove the wheel and deal with the remains of the bolt which just might be able to be run through the back of the hub.
Good luck
If you can leave two black stripes from the exit of one corner to the braking zone of the next, you have enough horsepower. - Mark Donohue
Member
Well, I banged in a 17mm 3/8 drive Irwin bolt extractor on to the head. The bolts are recessed. The breaker bar drive bit snaps right off every time I try to break free the bolt. The extractor has a hexagon end where I can put a socket on it but, I have very little room to put a socket on the bolt extractor due to the recessed walls around the lug bolt. I can bang a socket on to the bolt extractor but, that will damage the rim. I don't have a strong enough 3/8 drive to be able to break free the bolt. My only option is to bang a 1/2 drive socket onto the bolt extractor and use my 1/2 drive breaker bar to break free the bolt. Right now I'm driving with the bolt extractor on the bolt since I already banged the bolt extractor onto the bolt. It looks ridiculous but, I can't get the extractor off since the bolt is recessed in the rim..
Member
+1 to Moroza's respect for managing this with a wheel on! Jiminy Christmas. You'll have to get that thing off eventually!
This thread is a good use-case for a simple does of impact wrench
Member
yeah, that's what I suggested, because sometimes you need it for fitting them where you don't want to damage anything.+1 to Moroza's respect for managing this with a wheel on! Jiminy Christmas. You'll have to get that thing off eventually!
This thread is a good use-case for a simple does of impact wrench
Member
I tried that but, my electric impact gun was too big to fit between the ball joint nut and the ground. LOL+1 to Moroza's respect for managing this with a wheel on! Jiminy Christmas. You'll have to get that thing off eventually!
This thread is a good use-case for a simple does of impact wrench
Member
Haha, oh man. I recognize I wasn't that helpful - and I essentially said "professional tools will make this easier". But, you find ways to get around these problems when faced with a lot longer process. Like maybe lifting the front higher temporarily to fit the gun under, etc. Either way, you learned a lot and got it done
Member
LOL! I sure learned a lot. Not bad for a driveway repair! LOL I drove the car to work yesterday and there was still a little vibration. I drove it to work this morning and the vibration is fading but, it's a weird vibration. If I go pver 55mph there is a vibration fr a second, then goes away, then comes back, then goes away. It's a constant on/off vibration, not a continuous vibration. The steering will vibrate for a second and go away, then come back for a second, then go away. Very odd. Maybe it's the bolt extractor that's banged on the bolt head? Will that affect the balance of the wheel?Haha, oh man. I recognize I wasn't that helpful - and I essentially said "professional tools will make this easier". But, you find ways to get around these problems when faced with a lot longer process. Like maybe lifting the front higher temporarily to fit the gun under, etc. Either way, you learned a lot and got it done
I can't take out the bolt extractor because it's banged on the head and the lug bolt is recessed...
Member
Is this one of those with a sharp, slow helix? They will walk right off if you turn them clockwise, as if to tighten.
A pro brand 3/8" breaker bar might get the job done without all the hoo-ha.
Maybe drive to a sympathetic shop and let them have a laugh at your expense.
If you can leave two black stripes from the exit of one corner to the braking zone of the next, you have enough horsepower. - Mark Donohue
Member
That could certainly be it. On these cars, imbalances tend to show up most at 55mph and it's very possible that extractor adds enough weight to the wheel to throw the balance off!
That is one horror story I've thankfully never had to deal with *knocks on all the wood
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