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Thread: Track day brings more questions

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
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    Watsonville,ca
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    911 , f 350

    Track day brings more questions

    I had my first track day today in 1997 328 I . I had done a fair amount of work , suspension, brakes ,motor and trans mounts , control arms and bushings , tires and rims . It was a good day , enjoyed the car .but need some sway bars and seat
    my question is mainly about the seat . I want to replace stock seat .... I am not planning on roll bar .so what would be the seat belt configuration with a race seat . The car is a sedan .
    Any thoughts on this would be appreciated
    thanks
    robert

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
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    Clarksville, TN
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    1995 BMW 325i
    glad you enjoyed your first track day!
    i quickly, think it was before 3rd weekend, installed a fixed OMP seat. please get a certified seat even a "expired" racing at least.
    i am using stock 3 pt belt, as i am not caged yet. i used a rear center, cloth buckle that attaches to the seat mount "rail" that goes through the lap belt opening and the anchor side goes through the other lap opening in the seat aswell.
    some use 4pt schroth or another brand.

  3. #3
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    911 , f 350
    I just was on the scroth site and they had a good diagram of the set up . It seems to be common practice to do . I plan on a non reclining seat . The last piece of the puzzle I guess is mounting. At the track I saw an adjustable vac side mount but I see most recommend permanent mount .....I will be the only driver so won't need to adjust unless I fatten up


    Quote Originally Posted by poweredbyg60 View Post
    glad you enjoyed your first track day!
    i quickly, think it was before 3rd weekend, installed a fixed OMP seat. please get a certified seat even a "expired" racing at least.
    i am using stock 3 pt belt, as i am not caged yet. i used a rear center, cloth buckle that attaches to the seat mount "rail" that goes through the lap belt opening and the anchor side goes through the other lap opening in the seat aswell.
    some use 4pt schroth or another brand.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
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    Colorado
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    2017 Subaru BRZ
    If you are going to use a fixed back seat with no roll bar, I would not use a harness. Just use the stock seat belt with the race seat. In a rollover event, your body will then slouch or fall to the side/forward, which will help mitigate head/neck injuries. If you use a (shoulder based) harness, you will be held upright in the seat when the roof is crushing, that's bad news. In my own e36 (see videos in sig), I did not use my harnesses until I installed my TC Kline roll bar. Once you get the roll bar then go with a harness plus HANS device. This is the route I went at least, hope it helps.
    1994 BMW 325is - Project 325 HPDE/TT | 2013 Scion FRS - Project FRS STX | 2017 Subaru BRZ - Project BRZ STX

  5. #5
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    That makes perfect sense and just adds more decisions ....I do think just adding seat will improve my on track experience and that is good and then I ask myself how far am I going... would be interested in hearing from others who have gone the no rollbar route ...I have been strapped in and equipped with HANS device I felt safe . More questions
    thanks for advice

  6. #6
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    95 M3, 02 S60
    I ran a Recaro Pole Position fixed back seat in my coupe for 3 years with only the stock 3 point belts and no roll bar. It works and it was safe (saved me and a friend in a frontal accident).

    I would look into using a CG Lock device to keep tension on the lap belt during track sessions.

    For a recaro (and most other conventional fixed back seats) you'll need floor mounts (VAC or Motionmotorsport options are the best) and you'll need side mounts to go from the floor mount to the seat itself. You'll also need to figure out how to mount the seat belts. Its all been covered before if you search the forum.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
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    VA
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    16' STI DD, 97' M3 Track
    Big Duck Club just announced they have 4 point roll bars for the E36 Coupe/sedan. They are $299 with shipping being extra.

    Only thing I'm not sure is if they are you-weld or they come pre-welded.

    https://www.instagram.com/p/Bj0SGJal...by=bigduckclub

  8. #8
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    I think I have a problem and I know it is a problem shared by many the first one is hardly free but makes you want more . I am talking about car mods ......so I think I like the idea of the roll bar more and more after reading other threads . So now I will figure out the timing and make a plan so I don't purchase things I will not reuse .... race seat use stock belts .....roll bar .....new belts. What I have learned so far it is a build in progress with no end in sight

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2015
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    1996 BMW 328is
    Amen to that...hahaaha. I started adding safety gear this winter. I found used race reats, installed a 1/2 cage and new 6pt Sparco Harnesses. Fitting seats, harnesses and mounts is not as simple a task as you'd think. If you have a friends, a race shop or peruse successful builds, you can probably save yourself some headaches. Also, I've found that dealers of this stuff are very happy to chat on the phone and answer questions....use them. Basically, you want to make sure the various bits fit and work with your shape, your preferences, and most importantly with each other. Even if everything works....expect to have the seats in and out of the car about 30 times, as you try to get your seating position dialed in.

    For example, I bought the Brey Krause seat mounts and sub bracket, which side mount to seat and bolt to oem floor mounting points. The seats (old used Sparco Circuit Pro) interfered with their sub mount at low positions, forcing a high seating position. This would have made the angle of the shoulder harness unsafe, as well as having the adjuster of the lap belt interfere with the opening of the seat.

    I ended up mounting the subs to the floor. The seats are quite narrow and the pull-up lap adjusters sit inboard of the seat, making adjustment somewhat challenging (I'm used to it, but a pain when I have an instructor). When I finish this season, hoping to install a real cage for endurance racing and will likely change some of the setup.

  10. #10
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    You can use a harness bar if you want. Stable sells them. I had one in a VW when my son first started. When we bought the 328is it fit in there also. They adjust so measure with a ruler. For seats we used Kirkey because they were light and inexpensive. The oem seat is too far to the left and we had Kirkey fab up mounts for us that moved the seat in about an inch and put you directly behind the wheel. The oem seat comes out with a 16mm socket and we would get to the track and remoe it and bolt in the Kirkey. Make sure you check if the groups you run with require equal restraints for instructors if needed as they it is x2$.
    ME:"I want to make my car faster and lighter"
    THEM:" Get out and let someone else drive"

  11. #11
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    Worrying about a seat and sway bars after one track day is jumping the gun a bit. I can guarantee that you didn't outdrive the seat, sway bars, or car.

    Get some more seat time in your stock seat and on your stock sway bars. Learn to drive, get smooth and consistent, and think about mods later.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by jim89325is View Post
    Worrying about a seat and sway bars after one track day is jumping the gun a bit. I can guarantee that you didn't outdrive the seat, sway bars, or car.

    Get some more seat time in your stock seat and on your stock sway bars. Learn to drive, get smooth and consistent, and think about mods later.
    This! Go get more track time. Have fun. Learn.

    Also, do your research on safety equipment. Just for example; the argument for staying with the OEM 3-point belt (when you don't have a cage) so you'll get pushed out of the way in a roll over sounds good, but there are reputable folks that say the data doesn't support that. Rather, the much more significant risk in a crash is limbs and head flopping around inside and outside the car. A harness helps to prevent that. In the end, it's your risk analysis.
    Last edited by aeronaut; 06-14-2018 at 09:47 AM.

  13. #13
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    I dont know about OP or you guys but I have to fight to stay in my stock seat on the track I wouldnt think its a bad first mod at all. Not having to use half my energy and focus to stay in the seat would probably help my driving.

    No roll bar I would use stock 3 points. Im big into the off road world and 4 and 5 points with no cage is a big no-no. If that roof caves in on you you are done.

  14. #14
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    If you have trouble staying in your seat go to your local Lowes or Home Depot or hardware store and get some tool box liner.
    Throw it on your seat and sit on it. Pick up a seat belt lock. Your ass wont be going anywhere.
    Last edited by Cobra1956; 06-14-2018 at 05:18 PM.
    ME:"I want to make my car faster and lighter"
    THEM:" Get out and let someone else drive"

  15. #15
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    good ideas^^ didnt know the cg lock thing existed

  16. #16
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    Stay with a stock seat unless you have a roll bar. Itís safer.

    Safety is a system, bar, belts, and seat. One without the other two, is no bueno.

  17. #17
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    Another option is to move your seat back twist the lap belt and after you secure it move the seat forward. Works nice if you have power seats. I think CG advertises in Grass Roots. They were giving them out at the Rolex a few years back so I got one that I passed on to a guy who still runs it and loves it.
    ME:"I want to make my car faster and lighter"
    THEM:" Get out and let someone else drive"

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by tvcasualty View Post
    good ideas^^ didnt know the cg lock thing existed
    I may have a CG Lock discount code. PM me if you need it.

  19. #19
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    Although I agree 100% in principle that improving the driver is the most important mod...my experience was that after one track day I was killing the sidewalls of my tires from extreme body roll, and I couldn't manage to solve it with air pressure. I ended up putting camber plates and a sway bar, in just so I could get tire wear in check as the primary goal.

    I agree that the safety system is a system, and many times adding a little at a time makes you worse off, so research is necessary. Safety is always a good investment if you are committed to this hobby. More seat time brings more speed, and I'd argue that safety gear modifications should be prioritized fairly high on the to-do list.

  20. #20
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    Stiffer springs help with the tire wear issue. Stock springs are pretty soft. No free lunch if you drive it on the street and track so you pick what you can live with to sacrifice. How much psi and what tires?
    ME:"I want to make my car faster and lighter"
    THEM:" Get out and let someone else drive"

  21. #21
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    Oh yeah...I forgot to mention I put springs on too. Knowing then what I know now, I should have started with springs...I think you're right that they made the biggest difference. The tires were Sport Comp IIs, on the 16" stock rim...and I can't remember the pressure ranges I used, I'm guessing between 35 and 40 hot...it was over 2 yrs ago.

    I'm now on 17" RS4s as my track tire, which also would have helped a little. The point is, that there are some car upgrades that help preserve the equipment ($200 springs saving $1k worth of tires in this example), which helps fund seat time.

  22. #22
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    Keep a notebook! Dont know if your theory is sound as you want to go faster which should/will eat the tires faster. In the end we all convince ourselves in the most convenient fashion.
    ME:"I want to make my car faster and lighter"
    THEM:" Get out and let someone else drive"

  23. #23
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    Note book is a good idea, I always bring one now (I sometimes remember to write in it).

    If you're eating the tread faster...yes. Sidewalls...I dunno.

    I thoughtmore excuses to convince ourselves (and our significant others) is part of what this support group is all about

  24. #24
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    LOL, you buy the tires for her! If you are eating sidewalls you need more air. If the tires don't have marks on the sides use a tire crayon. Always have an issue with pressures as the car feels like it sticks better with low but it rolls over more. Your tire is a 200 rater, correct? Maybe a different tire with a stiffer sidewall would help. Can you take temps across your tread? That should help you also with pressure.
    ME:"I want to make my car faster and lighter"
    THEM:" Get out and let someone else drive"

  25. #25
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    I'm no longer rolling sidewalls over...actually loving the tire/suspension setup now, good for my skill level. I did mark the tires originally as I chased the solution, which took a while for me to correct.

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