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Thread: Z4 Roof issue

  1. #51
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
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    2004 BMW Z4
    Thanks
    The company is called Cabriolet Hydraulics.
    Only reason is it is closer to me than Oregon.
    They both sound ok as far as the work they do. I have read reviews on both and have good reviews.
    I have done a lot of research and these are the only ones I can find. Others do this repair but not on Z4s.
    Do you have a preference or used anyone else?

  2. #52
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    2007 BMW Z4 E85 3.0 SI
    I am sorry I haven’t used any rebuilds before.
    I came across this when I googled:
    http://oemparts4export.com/new-bmw-5...ine-hinge-left

    Also it seems there are salvage hinges available. Not sure if they ship to Canada.
    C0EEF743-F06B-48B1-898C-9D903BE9AC96.jpg

    http://www.car-part.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi

  3. #53
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    I just got my cylinders back from the rebuilder and have a question about if there is anything needed to put on the weather strip seal that attaches at the base of the roof to the rear metal panel and rear fenders.
    There didn’t appear to be any type of sealer on it when removed, but somewhere in the many blogs I thought I saw something about that. Thanks

  4. #54
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    Congratulations!
    The weatherstrip does not “need” sealant. However some people apply an RTV adhesive sealant to prevent the weatherstrip from spontaneously detaching in certain areas. I personally did not apply any to mine as once the weatherstrip is very well seated and evenly spread along the perimeter it stays in place. Also I didn’t want adhesive all over my soft top. Instead I use a spray bottle of soapy water to help me tuck it well in place and stretch it evenly. When the water dries the weatherstrip doesn’t move.
    Last edited by tekoo; 11-05-2018 at 07:46 PM.

  5. #55
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    Thanks
    The soapy water sounds like a better plan for sure.
    I will attempt reassembly in the next day or so, hopefully smoothly!

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by tekoo View Post
    Congratulations!
    The weatherstrip does not “need” sealant. However some people apply an RTV adhesive sealant to prevent the weatherstrip from spontaneously detaching in certain areas. I personally did not apply any to mine as once the weatherstrip is very well seated and evenly spread along the perimeter it stays in place. Also I didn’t want adhesive all over my soft top. Instead I use a spray bottle of soapy water to help me tuck it well in place and stretch it evenly. When the water dries the weatherstrip doesn’t move.
    Thanks for the tip tekoo, I will apply it when I attempt a new top and motor install come Springtime!

  7. #57
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    My pleasure.. Why are you replacing the soft top MIKYZZ4?

  8. #58
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    have to remove it to replace a dead motor, and it's leaky & moldy,
    so I figured I would replace it while its out.

  9. #59
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    2007 BMW Z4 E85 3.0 SI
    I saw a couple of black soft tops on eBay a couple of weeks ago in very clean used condition. They were going for $390 each with free shipping. You can also keep your frame and just get brand new fabric. I think it runs between $500-800 based on quality. OEM fabric is also available. Brand new complete top would probably be in the $5-8K range I suspect. What offers are you looking at?

  10. #60
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    Really just starting to think about it as a project for the Spring, nothing definite yet.
    Thanks for the pricing update!

  11. #61
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    It is difficult to imagine how everything looks after modification. There are so many variables. In all circumstances please refrain from giving a ‘tap’ as it will only do harm. Lubricate the windshield hinges (I provided you with the thread link before) so the roof can detach from windshield with no taping or help (taping and pushing will break the interior plastic trim covering the front of the roof). After this problem is solved please record a video of the current layout (pump motor location, hydraulic fluid level changes with roof position, hydraulic pipes layout and folding from pump to hinges) also showing the roof in action (opening/closing) without assistance. You can provide the link to the video here.

  12. #62
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    I am trying to figure out the best and easiest way to upload a video on to this forum.
    I have read that the video had to be uploaded to UTube 1st?
    As for the roof issue, it has no issues unloading from the windshield, it is only when it tries to raise is when the trouble always starts.

  13. #63
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    1-You don’t need YouTube. The most simple method is to save your video on the cloud (google drive, Microsoft OneDrive, iCloud, Dropbox, Mega or any of these services). They all offer free limited storage space. After you create the account and successfully upload your video on one of these storage servers you can select to share the video file. This will provide you with a direct copy and paste address link to your video that you can paste in the message box here on your thread.

    2-I’m suspecting your current roof problem may not be related to the motor/pump or the roof itself but rather the stowage lock that locks the roof in place when it’s folded. This stowage lock mechanism was present in the first generation Z4 E85 but was later discontinued due to associated problems and lack of significant value. Many Z4 owners complain the roof ‘catches’ and not letting go easily during attempts to raise the roof. Some owners have found that a small manual backward press/push to the center of the roof when it’s folded allows the roof to detach and once it is detached it completes the closure process with no other problems. BMW identifies the problem as being caused by misaligned lock parts (one part located in roof and and other secured to body frame) and recommends either realigning the two parts for smooth function or complete removal of one or both parts of the stowage lock (the lock itself and the x-hook that locks into it).

    We won’t be able to help you diagnose and troubleshoot any further unless we can see what’s going on (especially now that the motor and hydraulic pipe orientation has changed) . But it won’t hurt if you remove the stowage lock from your vehicle and see if this solves the issue. You already have the trim out so it should take a couple of minutes to remove the part. For more info and instructions on how to remove it, check my post on this thread
    https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...h-when-closing
    Last edited by tekoo; 11-10-2018 at 04:54 PM.

  14. #64
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    Misalignment in the stowage lock can also cause the opposite problem; block the roof from sitting fully in the end open position which may be what you mean by “does not look fully open”. Again it’s not easy to understand what exactly you mean by reading your description and therefore the video will be of great help. But in all circumstances I would remove the stowage lock to get one possible easy cause out of the way and narrow down the other possibilities.
    Last edited by tekoo; 11-10-2018 at 04:56 PM.

  15. #65
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    I realize a video will be easier to see what is happening as my description lacks sometimes.
    I mis spelled when I said it doesn’t look fully open. I meant it doesn’t lock fully open.
    It closes fine always and lockes to the windshield always.
    It unlocks from the windshield always but will not open by itself without some assistance most times, then after helping it open about 6” or so it will open the rest of the way by itself then stop about 2” from locking in the open position that’s when again you have to just put a bit of pressure to lock in the open position.
    Funny thing is when i tested it out of the car, it opened fine.
    Now it will open by itself only about 2 out of 10 times and never go low enough when fully open to lock in open position.

  16. #66
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    I would follow the following troubleshooting sequence and reassess after every point if the problem disappears before moving on to the next point. While moving down the list once you complete a task leave as is and don’t reverse it if it doesn’t resolve the issue immediately as the problem could be multi factorial.

    1-If you installed the pump in a tilted 45 degree angle in the trunk, remove the pump from the tilted position and let it just stand tall verticaly on the trunk floor. See if this solves the problem.
    2-If this doesn’t solve the problem, examine the hydraulic pipes. If you added flexible plastic sheath to protect the pipes (like the ones used to protect electrical wiring) remove everything that covers the pipes and make sure they are completely free standing and don’t get folded at a sharp angle anywhere during the ascend or descend of the roof. Also remove the plastic handle components and the shelf of the roof stowage compartment floor as it may be compressing/pinching the hydraulic pipes underneath along their course to the new location in the trunk. You can stick a folded ball of paper or any suitable small object in the stowage switch to keep the circuit connected after removing the shelf.
    3-Reprime the pump by moving the top up and down few times (first with emergency release cable pulled then with realase cable in default location). Do it while the pump is still in the vertical position (and verify the fluid level is always high enough to fully cover the nozzles.
    4-Uninstall the stowage lock and remove from vehicle completely (don’t worry about x hook for now)
    5-Examine the roof closely while going up and down and make sure it’s not catching on anything (make sure you don’t hear any clicking noise like you’d hear if a joint got stuck or two parts of metal frame are overriding one another)
    6-Make sure you reattached the roof properly and that it’s fully and evenly seated at the hinges, side brackets and frame rail.
    7-Reasses the new hinges movement and verify there is no new leak or restricted/limited full mechanical expansion/folding of the hinges

    Not sure I have anything more to add at this point. Posting a video is really not that difficult. You will have to help us help you!
    Last edited by tekoo; 11-10-2018 at 07:56 PM.

  17. #67
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    If the problem is still not solved after following the above 7 points in sequence and to the letter then you will have to

    8- Detach the emergency release handle mechanism at the pump end (remove the 3 screws and black plastic cover) and examine the hydraulic copper pin that is pressed into the pump to activate the emergency release. You will have to press this copper pin few times into the pump and observe if it can move in and out freely and return to default position spontaneously without getting stuck. If it gets stuck you’ll have to use a lubricant and work it in and out few times till it’s free moving

    9-detach the hydraulic lines from the pump and verify each of the banjo screws has a clean patent lumen and openings that won’t obstruct the flow of oil inside. Also verify the copper spacers/washers are not dented or damages causing misaligned banjo opening location in relation to hydraulic line rings that are supposed to perfectly align with these openings (we discussed this before).

    10-Uninstall the plastic cover of the hydraulic fluid compartment and dump any dirty oil. Wash all components with alcohol and dry it. Verify that both nozzles are clean and patent before putting everything back together and refilling with oil. You will have to reprime again afterwards.

    the idea is that if the oil flow is weak or interrupted in one of the banjo screws or nozzles, then it will cause abnormal/weak movement of the roof in the direction covered by that specific banjo bolt.
    Last edited by tekoo; 11-10-2018 at 08:19 PM.

  18. #68
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    Thanks for all the suggestions.
    I will attempt to get a video attached, not very computer literate unfortunately!

  19. #69
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    Hello
    I have tried all the suggestions with no luck.
    I have taken video and am trying through drop box to put on this forum, not having luck there either.
    Only thing I haven’t done is removal of the reservoir, however on one other forum it was suggested to switch lines on the pump which I did a the problem is reversed.
    The roof opens real fast, and real slow to close, I fact it won’t close, had to use bypass.
    It opens just as fast as it used to close with the lines reversed.
    Any ideas on that, sticky valve?
    Have been searching for info but hardly anything on the pump other than changing.

  20. #70
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    If the problem is now reversed after switching lines, then the problem is localized to the pump and or one of the banjo bolt. You can attempt to fix the issue and salvage your pump by following points 8,9,10 in my prior troubleshooting suggestions with or without replacing the banjo bolts (you'll need the kit). If that still doesn't fix the issue unfortunately at that point you will need a new pump/motor unit.
    Last edited by tekoo; 11-14-2018 at 03:04 PM.

  21. #71
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    In addition to points (8,9,10); please test the power cable terminals at the pump/motor end with a multimeter while someone is operating the soft top switch in the center console. Make sure the motor is receiving 12 volts power every time each of the switches (open/close) is pressed.

    (you can skip this test if you can confirm the motor is running in both directions (either you can hear or feel the motor when you press both open and close switches)

    To perform this test you will have to:
    1)Set the multimeter to the 20 volts setting (if its not an automated device)
    2)Attach the black ground cable to any bare bolt in the chassis of the vehicle
    3)Unplug the motor from it's power cable.
    4)Attach the red terminal to one of the wires at the end of the power cable and ask your helper to press the 'open' switch. If you detect 12 volts this wire is good. If you don't ask your helper to press the 'close' switch. If now 12 volts are detected then you know this wire operates with the 'close' switch.

    4)Move the red probe to the opposite wire and ask your helper to press each of the switches to confirm a switch delivers 12 volts to this second wire (one of the switches should provide power to one of the wires while the other switch supplies the second wire).
    5)If after performing this test you find one of the 2 wires not receiving 12 volts with neither of the switches then you have an electrical or motor problem (not hydraulic or pump related). This can be either due to loss in the power supply to the motor in one direction (either relay defect, wire defect or switch defect) or the motor itself is only functional in a uni-directional fashion (instead of bi-directional as it should be) despite receiving intact power supply.

    Last edited by tekoo; 11-14-2018 at 03:05 PM.

  22. #72
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    You might want to rest your hand on the motor while your helper presses the 'open' & 'close' switches first. If you feel the motor running in both directions then you can skip the power check procedure.
    However if the motor is not felt with one of the switches then you will need to proceed with the steps above to identify the wire that is not getting power and check for continuity.

    We can discuss the results of these troubleshooting tests and alternative options before committing to purchasing anything. But first you will have to perform these missing troubleshooting suggestions.

  23. #73
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    The motor runs fine it both directions, just not much power in one direction.
    So if the pump were the issue, as the pump does both directions, wouldn’t it affect both ways.
    If those are relief valves, can one not be turned in to try and raise the pressure?
    Other thing , on the one valve that is not working properly, is there an o ring on the valve itself that could be blown?
    There is only a adjustment screw and spring, cannot get the lower actual valve out.
    Also is there a way of knowing which port feeds the raise or lower? If I knew that , then I can focus on one valve.
    There are numbers 11/12 13/14 I think scribed in the pump.
    I am just asking due to my experience with industrial hydraulic systems, although bigger work similar.
    I checked both valves are screwed in the same number of turns as well.

  24. #74
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    I did pull the reservoir cover, looked as new inside, no dirt or black oil residue.
    I also did the recommendation of disconnecting the bypass valve, checked the brass pin operation as well the copper washers were in the proper location and like new.
    Looks all were changed when new pump installed.
    Need to check banjo fittings a little closer, but 1 st look they appear fine.

  25. #75
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    The motor runs the pump in one direction->pump pushes hydraulic fluid under pressure to one nozzle -> the one nozzle pushes the fluid through the lumen of the specific banjo bolt attached to this specific nozzle ->The fluid goes from the lumen of the specific banjo bolt to both of the circular hydraulic pipe heads attached to it -> from there fluid passes through the 2 specific hydraulic pipes attached to that specific banjo bolt ->then the 2 specific pipes deliver the fluid to both hinges.

    And vice versa!

    We know that the pipes and hinges are working great because the soft top can operate perfectly in either direction if you attach that corresponding pipes to the functional banjo bolt.

    We also know the motor runs and gets power in both directions.

    We also know the pump can generate pressure and push fluid.

    Therefore the problem is evidently localized to the one of the pump nozzles and or its corresponding banjo bolt which is either 1) blocked, 2) bent or 3)dysfunctional.

    Therefore you need to follow the suggestions above because there are no other alternatives (short of purchasing a new pump or accepting everything as is).
    Last edited by tekoo; 11-14-2018 at 03:34 PM.

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