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Thread: Z4 Roof issue

  1. #26
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    Yes. You can undo all screws to free up the top from any attachment to the vehicle but then never take the top off the vehicle. Instead you lift up on the drivers side where the pump is just enough to pull the motor out from underneath the top. Once you free the pump you can either pass it to the trunk or to the drivers side to work on it. If the repair is expected to take few days, to order parts for example, then you could temporarily mount back all screws to secure the top in “top up” covered position and use the vehicle till the pump is ready to be installed again. Needless to say the end of the hydraulic lines need to be covered in a plastic bag or something to protect from oil spillage everywhere. Don’t move the top up and down while the pump is uninstalled. Having another person available to help would make the task a lot easier but not necessary.

    Some people suggest reaching from the trunk and trying to snatch the pump/motor assembly blindly and forcefully from the back without undoing the top but I find that to be a recepie for disaster as if you would to pull on a pipeline or a hinge thinking it’s the motor your repair cost would double or even quadruple instantly.

  2. #27
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    So I assume the roof has to be down or open to attempt this repair?
    Also does the inside covering of the trunk, the grey material, not sure proper name, have to be removed?

  3. #28
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    The top has to be unlatched from the windshield during the maneuvers. Up, down, halfway in between; whatever works best for you. However 2 very important things to be cautious about:
    1- the red tab pulley has to be secured in PULLED position during the maneuvers to relieve the mechanical pressure off the frame, hinges and pump from manual folding and expansion.
    2- before the pump gets disconnected from the hydraulic lines (if that’s needed to check the patency of the screws for example or replace the pump), the top has to be UP in the covered position and stay there from this point on till the pump gets reinstalled. If the top gets manually folded while the pump is disconnected all the oil in the hydraulic pipes will squirt out and air will replace it making it very difficult to reprime the system and get rid of all the air after reinstalling the pump.

    Here is the official BMW TIS “how to guide” to uninstall the soft top:
    https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...le-top/4btrGTM

    Good Luck!

  4. #29
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    Thanks a lot
    Appreciate all your help.

  5. #30
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    Hello
    I am to the point where all fasteners are undoing, the roof is loose but won’t seemingly lift up on left side.
    Is there enough slack in the lines etc to allow the roof to lift enough to access the pump.
    Also what holds the pump in the cavity.
    I can move it but that’s all.

  6. #31
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    Yes there is enough slack. Make sure you didn’t miss any screws on the rounded frame and the 4 bolts are out that hold the top from inside the vehicle. There are also 2 brackets one on each side where the rounded rail is stuck into towards the doors. You can see them from the trunk if you follow the rail towards the doors. The rails have to slide out of these brackets. I found it easiest to maneuver in and out of the brackets when the top is halfway open. After that the only thing that might get in the way is the pump casing itself so have someone help you lift on the left side while you maneuver the pump out of the way. The pump is secured to the left frame by a zip tie that you can snip off to free the pump. Hope this helps. Make sure the power cable is unwrapped and free and not holding you back. It’s a tedious process so you have to be very patient and have confidence. There are many things that I couldn’t figure out the first day. If you get stuck research more and reach out for help.
    Last edited by tekoo; 10-09-2018 at 04:37 PM.

  7. #32
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    I forgot to mention that you need to free up the weather molding surrounding the top from the body of the car. It’s part of the soft top so don’t try to disconnect from the top. Also before trying to lift up from the left and right sides it helps to drop the rounded rail towards the inside of the trunk (tucked under the body of the car) to give some room for the front sides to come out. It’s also the manufacture recommendation in the instructions you have. This video may be helpful; shows the brackets and explains few other things:
    https://youtu.be/k31nU0FWmtE

    There are more videos and posted images and experiences online.

  8. #33
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    Thanks.
    I believe I have all undone, checked and rechecked,except I didn’t undo the plastic tie on the pump.
    I assume it will stay in its cavity when you lift the roof, then prop the roof up on the left while trying to get at the pump, or does it have to come up somewhat with the roof when lifting.
    If all I am trying to do is check and top off oil level, do you think it’s possible to take the top of the plastic cover off the pump in it’s mounted location, looks kind not possible.

  9. #34
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    01F5AE6A-1FA2-44FB-AF63-8BB592FDFB01.jpgC30F9542-E909-4504-B47E-63DF6BA47D8C.jpg

    The zip tie has to get cut as soon as you can get a hold of it. The hydraulic pipes are wrapped vertically around the plastic casing. There is not much you can do before cutting the zip tie. It’s your only chance of performing the repair while the top is on the vehicle. Otherwise the top will have to completely come out as the zip tie is securing the plastic casing to the top frame. But if you succeed in cutting the zip tie you can maneuver the casing out, unwrap the hydraulic lines and open the shell to get to the pump leaving the top in place.
    Last edited by tekoo; 10-09-2018 at 07:48 PM.

  10. #35
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    I couldn’t see the ties until I got it out, had to remove the whole roof to do so.what a job.
    Going to be fun to get back together. Unfortunately I see an oil leak from somewhere on left side.
    A very little in the cavity which means hasn’t been leaking long, although I’ve had this issue since pump was replaced.
    Can’t see me disturbing anything pulling it apart, it was firmly attached to the roof.
    The pump is new looking and the reservoir is almost empty, and looked as though no short cuts were used when it was worked on, other than duct tape around the two plastic housing pieces.
    On some posts it says you can power the roof out of the car to try.
    Is that correct? I assume I would have to disengage the red handle to pressurize the hoses and rams.
    Also other than BMW oil what can I use.
    Also what is used to keep the two plastic housings sealed and together other than duct tape?

    I am about 100 miles from the closest dealer so sourcing parts local would be ideal.
    Thanks.

  11. #36
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    If there was oil inside the plastic shell I would replace the 2 bonjo bolts and all washers and make sure the plastic reservoir isn’t cracked and the metal clip around it’s base and the top filling screw aren’t leaking. The bolts and washers are in the set we discussed before.

    I purchased my hydraulic oil from eBay. It was a Febi brand. Amazon, Pelican parts, ECS tuning and other online retailers sell it also as well the repair kit.

    The plastic shell in my car was secured together with black butyl (sticky stuff used for sealing) and duct tape.

    You can connect the +\- on the pump to a car battery and reverse leads to reverse pump direction. Otherwise you can park the top next to your vehicle and plug the power cable back to its plug and operate through the console switch (cable I s long enough to reach) if the left side of the top is next to the driver door and the top is facing backwards.
    Last edited by tekoo; 10-09-2018 at 08:42 PM.

  12. #37
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    Thanks again for the help.

  13. #38
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    With pleasure. You passed the difficult part, everything left is just the reverse of what you already did. I am glad our remote diagnosis was in place!

  14. #39
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    I finally got the oil today and have a few questions.
    The fittings on the pump are what we always referred to as banjo fittings.
    In our applications, heavy equipment, it didn’t matter the location of the bolts as long as the holes in the fittings were in the larger diameter part of the hose end. Is that what you meant as far as the proper orientation of the bolts, can’t remember your proper terminology.
    2nd I operated the roof after filling 3/4.
    Oil went down to almost nothing showing, should I keep operating until I get a consistent level of 3/4.
    Does the oil go up or down in the reservoir when raising or lowering the roof?
    Such a small reservoir, not much room for error in the proper amount of fluid. By the way no oil was in the insulated plastic parts, just a few drops in the bigger plastic where the drain is.
    As well as a little on the floor when I set the top down.
    Can’t see any leaks when trying!!! Can I deadhead the roof quickly to check for leaks?Hate asking so many questions, just want to get it right 1st time.

  15. #40
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    So after trying the roof several times, I found the leak!
    Coming from the actuator, cylinder on left , at the top of where it disappears into the roof mechanism. That is where I saw the droplets of oil in the big plastic housing was definitely coming from.
    Are those actuators rebuildable?
    Any ideas on how to disassemble would be appreciated.

  16. #41
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    1- Each banjo bolt hole have to perfectly oppose and be aligned with the corresponding rounded ring of the hydraulic pipe terminal so the oil can flow without interruption from the pump to the pipes and vice versa. In order for this alignment to occur all 3 copper spacers have to be available and in the correct location as these are more of spacers than washers.
    2- You have to keep filling the reservoir until the oil level becomes stable. As long as oil is dropping in the reservoir it’s filling air pockets in the circuit or leaking somewhere. You will know there are no more leaks and no more air pockets when oil in the reservoir reaches a constant level that doesn’t change with pump and roof operation. This stable level should be at least at 3/4 the reservoir. This allows room for more safe condition when the pump goes back into the tilted position without air leakage.
    This leak is probably caused by poor technique during the prior repair and caused the whole problem. The oil they had in the reservoir was too little to show under the vehicle or perhaps was all gone before you purchased the car.
    Everything is fixable. Post few images of where the problem/leak is and I’ll do my best to find you the info you need!

  17. #42
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    Otherwise you can use this parts diagram and point out the part number that is leaking
    https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=54_0313

    If you are referring to the left hinge these 2 companies provide a rebuild
    https://www.tophydraulicsinc.com/en/55-bmw-z4
    http://www.vendio.com/stores/leftcoa...b/lid=27146982

    Repair instructions of all the hydraulic components can be found here
    https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...le-top/Bq9DfKV

    And here someone posted a how to PDF guide to replace the hinges
    https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sh.../topics/844774
    Last edited by tekoo; 10-11-2018 at 05:09 PM.

  18. #43
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    It is left hinge part no 44347193449. Problem is I’m
    In Canada and can’t find a supplier for parts other than BMW.

    I did see the one supplier you stated. They stated replacing both cylinders.
    What are your thoughts on that. I will contact them about shipping to Canada, unless you have another idea. May be a selling thing, but a big job to get back into it again for the other one.
    Being that it worked good last fall when we bought and then this summer it then got progressively worse other than raising which always worked ok, is it possible for a leak to go that long, only got real bad after I attempted to bleed it.

  19. #44
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    It’s a small leak that was progressing slowly and got to the level where it was covering only one of nozzles (which is why movement in one direction was preserved). When you bled, the pipes sucked whatever oil was left in the reservoir along with air which now exposed both nozzles to air as there was no more oil to cover any of the nozzles (so the movement in the working direction became affected).

    I provided you with 2 vendors that sell rebuilds. I would think most US vendors ship to Canada? Not sure what you mean by “other than BMW”. You need a BMW part.

    After the first time, taking the roof apart becomes easier and can be achieved in 20-30 mins. I wouldn’t replace or mess with anything unless what is defective. There is no better quality than the original parts. If one hinge is broken I would replace one hinge and move one. This hinge was broken from poor technique during prior repair not from wear and tear. So there is no reason to assume the other side needs replacement.

    Examine the other hinge carefully for any leakes during pump operation, if there is none, then it’s good.
    Last edited by tekoo; 10-11-2018 at 06:01 PM.

  20. #45
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    Thanks
    I meant that we have no rebuilders or after market parts suppliers. Only option here is OEM BMW parts.

  21. #46
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    You can check local salvage yards, google or Craigslist! You might get lucky! Otherwise you have eBay for used parts. Next level up is the rebuild from these 2 vendors (see if you can find more in Canada). Next level up is new.

    This is a good website for salvage; not sure if it covers Canada
    http://www.car-part.com/mobile/index.htm

    You can also take the hinge and go to any local hydraulic repairs shop and see if they can fix it. Doesn’t necessarily have to be a convertible or a BMW store. Or a local convertible top repair shop?
    Last edited by tekoo; 10-11-2018 at 06:33 PM.

  22. #47
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    Check out my new thread before you complete your project
    https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...26%23129303%3B

  23. #48
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    Sorry I wasn't quicker but, I just returned from a 11 day vacation trip thru New England and saw your postings.

    If your top was working fine about a year ago & It slowly grinded to a halt, and your can still hear the motor still running strong.....you have a leak. There honestly isn't a lot of hydo fluid in the system operating the roof & a slow leak would cause all of the problems you've detailed.

    This is a roof off repair. You've got to test the system off the car to make sure you've found the problem. It could be bad washers at the banjo bolts, a line which got clipped when it was re-installed...….or more likely a blown hinge lifter. I strongly suspect the hinge given everything you written. However, again, a top off inspection must be done to determine the exact location of the leak.


    I've no idea of your skills mechanically but hinge replacement is a big job and not for the faint hearted. This is a link to a business which re-builds hinges for most convertibleshttps://www.tophydraulicsinc.com/en/9-bmw


    I know they strongly suggest doing both hinges at the same time. This business will send you a pair of hinges upfront and you then send then back the pair of hinges that you remove from your car. The aforementioned site has specific instructions on pulling the top and hinges for a BMW z4. PLEASE read the instructions and then proceed based on your skill level, which is something only you know.

    Remember, since there isn't any hydo fluid in the lines opening & closing the top manually shouldn't be hard and wouldn't be the end of the world.

    As a fellow owner of one of these car's I wish you the best of luck.

  24. #49
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    Thanks for the post and you nailed the issue, leaking hinge cylinder. Going to send for repair on one of those rebuilders.

  25. #50
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    Where in FL are you getting the hinges rebuilt?
    In regards to soft top storage, air doesn’t really matter at this point as the hinge is completely removed so the circuit is wide open and most oil is probably already drained. You’ll just have to do a thorough bleed after hinge installation until all air is gone and the oil level in the reservoir becomes stable.
    As regards to the fabric, the soft top can handle being folded for long time. Z4 hardtop is actually designed to be installed on top of the folded soft top (soft top is not removed from vehicle), so BMW is okay with top folded for longer periods.
    So really it’s up to you if it’s folded or not at this point.

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