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Thread: Z4 Roof issue

  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdsweet View Post
    If it is still installed in stock location, it is inside a plastic sleeve and down and inside the side of the car, there is no way you can add/monitor oil levels with it there. I decided when I replaced my pump that if I ever had to do it again, I would install the motor in boot of car like some have done so there is access without removing the top.
    Makes sense! And that is exactly what celticrider also did!
    Last edited by tekoo; 11-17-2018 at 04:42 PM.

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by celticrider View Post
    When I referred to ballooning the hinge cylinders that was what was told to me by the company that rebuilt the cylinders,not my idea.
    It is coincidental however that both these valves are directly inline with the output ports?
    I realize it is hard to determine what any of these actually are when they are not meant to be repaired and are a throw away , I have the lock removed and ordering the kit Monday
    Thanks for your advice.
    Have you retested the roof after removing the lock?

  3. #153
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    It is operating basically the same , maybe going down a little further when stowed.
    It works better with the car running as I assume a little more electrical power going to the motor.
    The 1st time you go to open, sometimes it will not lift past 2-3”
    If you put down second time it always lowers all the way and pretty quick too.
    So not perfect but way better,and hopefully the kit will make it a bit better.

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by celticrider View Post
    In my particular problem.is it possible that this locking issue took out the original motor/pump and possibly the hinge starting to leak?
    The hinge is physically the ‘middle man’ in the fight between the lock (mechanical obstruction) and the motor/pump unit (counter force). The hinge is also one of the weakest links/structures in this fight. The obstruction blocks the roof from closing->significantly increases the resistance to properly collapse the hinge-> Pressure builds up in the specific hydraulic lines that support the hinge collapse function -> hydraulic pressure build up+direct mechanical tension on the hinge = hairline crack at the hinge or seal leak of the cylinder (something has to give)!

    The motor was probably gone from water damage (as the case with most other Z4 owners) however the dealer did a poor job at adjusting/aligning the roof after motor replacement. This caused the stowage lock problem (or one of the other roof misfolding issues) and the delayed attention to the misfolding problem caused the hinge to crack and leak!
    Last edited by tekoo; 11-17-2018 at 06:52 PM.

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by celticrider View Post
    It is operating basically the same , maybe going down a little further when stowed.
    It works better with the car running as I assume a little more electrical power going to the motor.
    The 1st time you go to open, sometimes it will not lift past 2-3”
    If you put down second time it always lowers all the way and pretty quick too.
    So not perfect but way better,and hopefully the kit will make it a bit better.
    1-Hopefully the new bolts will make the lifting/performance more consistent. Also when you detach the lines to install the bolts, i can guide you through taking the pump apart and giving it a good wash. There are 3 tiny metal moving objects inside the pump that regulate the fluid flow and one of them maybe a little bit sticky and in need for good cleaning with alcohol.

    2-On what basis are you assessing if roof has reached end position or not? Is it by how flush the roof is with trunk lid? OR is it the GAP between the soft top and the trunk lid?
    Last edited by tekoo; 11-17-2018 at 06:45 PM.

  6. #156
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    Basically when the light goes out and the motor stops.
    At that time it is aprox1” from where I would have Locke if you pushed down on it

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by celticrider View Post
    Basically
    when the light goes out and the motor stops. At that time it is aprox1” from where I would have Locke if you pushed down on it


    1- Does the light go out and motor stops when you operate the roof now?
    2- Where are you standing when you see the 1" gap and where is the roof? Are you looking at the front lip of the roof in the stowed position? Or are you looking at the rear fold of the roof in the stowed position? Or is it perhaps the side of the roof you are looking at?
    Last edited by tekoo; 11-17-2018 at 07:45 PM.

  8. #158
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    The motor stops and the light goes out.
    I am sitting in the seat looking at the front of the roof

  9. #159
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    When you transferred the motor to the trunk. How did you pass the hydraulic lines and power harness out of the wheel well into the trunk?
    Did you create 2(overlapping) openings in the plastic wheel well and the stowage shelf rack for the lines and cables to pass through (in the locations of red and blue circles in this diagram):

    Capture 111.JPG

    Did you cut out windows in the plastic trim as seen in images below for the motor/pump stalk to pass through?

    Z4 E85 Top Motor Relocation (Revision 2).jpg Z4 E85 Top Motor Relocation (Revision 1).jpgZ4 E85 Top Motor Relocation (Revision 6).jpgCapture23.JPG
    Last edited by tekoo; 11-18-2018 at 01:36 AM.

  10. #160
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    Yes that’s exactly how I did it.
    Got instructions from a post from the UK if I remember correctly.

  11. #161
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    Uninstall both the stowage shelf and the left rack underneath (the part with red circle in diagram and in image number 4) and retest the roof again? After these parts are removed you will have to stick something in the Microswitch to keep the power to the roof.

    Also if you covered the lines themselves in plastic sheath to prevent fraying please remove as well (see second image in my last post; protective white coiled plastic sheath installed over line). If there is anything else you applied to the lines to organize their layout and prevent them from moving around please remove whatever that is as well (rubber bands, tape, Velcro. Etc)

    When you retest the situation should look more like in images number 1 & 2; pump in trunk and lines floating freely to the hinges with no stowage shelf or rack covering or crossing over the lines. However unlike in images number 1 &2; the pump in your case should be standing vertically on trunk floor and lines should not be covered with plastic sheath.
    Last edited by tekoo; 11-18-2018 at 09:58 AM.

  12. #162
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    I have taken the shelf and the left shelf mount back out ,as well I have not installed any protective coverings on lines.
    It would be only the left side lines as the right ones are still in default location.
    I will
    Put covering on once I ever get this fully sorted out

  13. #163
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    One thing to mention
    I removed the lock assembly yesterday but couldn’t get the plastic cover and storage lid removed.
    I went by the instructions installing a pin in the hinge area, but no way would it come off.
    A couple of clips broke on the upper cover removing it already, very brittle stuff, even though I was very careful removing it.
    Instructions say to remove the metal backing that the plastic lock attached to, but short of possibly breaking something trying to get the cover off, not sure how to do that successfully.
    Due to the fact the actual lock is out, that locksto the roof,is that sufficient?
    I’ve tried and can’t get the lid off and therefore have not access to the metal mount.

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by celticrider View Post
    One thing to mention
    I removed the lock assembly yesterday but couldn’t get the plastic cover and storage lid removed.
    I went by the instructions installing a pin in the hinge area, but no way would it come off.
    A couple of clips broke on the upper cover removing it already, very brittle stuff, even though I was very careful removing it.
    Instructions say to remove the metal backing that the plastic lock attached to, but short of possibly breaking something trying to get the cover off, not sure how to do that successfully.
    Due to the fact the actual lock is out, that locksto the roof,is that sufficient?
    I’ve tried and can’t get the lid off and therefore have not access to the metal mount.
    The main concept behind removing the stowage lock is to prevent the collision and overriding (circled in diagram) that occurs between the x-hooks (labeled 1 in the diagram, metal hooks protruding from the central front lip of the soft top) and the metal rings of the stowage lock (labeled 2 in the diagram).

    x hooks.JPG13.JPG

    If these metal rings are still in direct path of the x-hooks, or the x-hooks are catching on to anything else along their path; the problem has not been resolved yet.
    Please fold the roof and observe/pay close attention to the x hooks to see if they are catching on anything whatsoever.
    If the answer is yes then the X-hooks need to be removed.
    If the answer is no then we can move on.
    Last edited by tekoo; 11-18-2018 at 07:55 PM.

  15. #165
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    The other thing we need to verify is that the fabric of the soft top is folding properly everywhere as you fold the roof (see diagram for correct folding pattern)

    folding.JPG

    So retest the roof while paying close attention to the X-hooks and the fabric folding and let me know what you found!
    Last edited by tekoo; 11-18-2018 at 10:40 AM.

  16. #166
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    As you can see in images below; points of heavy collision are pretty evident in the metal rings of this stowage lock (peeled paint, dented metal rings). Were you able to uninstall the part that contains these metal rings (red circles)?

    1.JPG4.JPG3.JPG2.JPG
    Last edited by tekoo; 11-18-2018 at 11:13 AM.

  17. #167
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    So if I understand you correctly, if the x hooks are catching, then they are removed from the actual roof and maybe I can leave the metal part still mounted?
    I’m sure you know from your experience, the piece I was able to remove was the plastic part with the actual lock and lever from
    It’s metal surrounding, and the metal part is still mounted.
    I will
    Check later today or tomorrow and post my findings to your questions.

  18. #168
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    This whole metal body of the stowage lock (including the part with red circles) should be out.
    If you were not successful in removing the stowage lock metal body and all what you removed was plastic trim, then you will need to uninstall the x hooks.

    The x-hooks are not part of the stowage lock. The x-hooks are a protruding part of the moving soft top (see circles/arrows in top row of images). As the soft top folds down, the x hooks travel with the roof from the windshield down to their final location where they get locked under the metal rings of the stowage lock (red circles in bottom row of images) to secure the top in its stowed location.

    5.JPG7.JPG
    Images above showing X-HOOKS location marked by circle/arrows

    Images below showing stowage lock, specific areas where collision occurs with the x-hooks during folding are circled in red.
    1.JPG3.JPG2.JPG
    Last edited by tekoo; 11-18-2018 at 12:51 PM.

  19. #169
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    To uninstall the x-hooks you will have to work on the soft top location circled in image 1 and remove the hooks following the instructions in mage 2:
    5.JPG
    8.JPG

  20. #170
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    Ok thanks.
    I will attempt again to get the plastic covers of, and if unsuccessful I will get rid of the x hooks.
    The lesser of two evils!

  21. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by celticrider View Post
    Ok thanks.
    I will attempt again to get the plastic covers of, and if unsuccessful I will get rid of the x hooks.
    The lesser of two evils!
    If removing the door of the rear center console is the problem:

    1-There are 2 tiny screws at the joints of the door that have to be removed. After removing the screws, I found it ALOT easier to dislodge one side first (one joint) followed by the other. Pulling both joints out at the same time was impossible.

    2-The whole idea of the hanger wire that you have to stick in the side hole of the door is that the hinges have an internal spring that changes their direction once they come out and the door is removed. Sticking the metal wire in the hole, prevents the free rotation of the hinges and holds them at the perfect angle to make it convenient during re-installation. Sticking the wire in the side hole will make your life a lot easier during re-installation but is not a 'must do' to pull the hinges out and remove the door. If you were able to get the metal wire in correctly, don't pull it out before you reinstall the door.

    12.JPG

    3-You have to start sticking the wire in the side hole from early on; right after the door unlocks and is slightly open enough for you to access the side hole. Don't wait until the door is wide open!! Make sure the wire goes in as far as possible (without breaking anything)! Notice door angle and position when you stick the wire in the side hole in the image below!

    11.JPG

    The images in link below where very useful
    https://www.zpost.com/forums/showthr...6#post19467177
    https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...nsoles/GEwlM50
    Last edited by tekoo; 11-18-2018 at 02:07 PM.

  22. #172
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    Here are better images for the stowage lock (circled):

    From what I understand you were just able to uninstall the inside lever mechanism (amber arrows) while what really needs to come out is the whole actual metal body (green arrows)

    stowage 1a.jpgstowage a.jpg

    If uninstalling this part without destroying your interior trim is not possible; then just remove the x-hooks from the soft top!

    13.JPG
    Last edited by tekoo; 11-18-2018 at 07:53 PM.

  23. #173
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    Yes I was only able to remove the latch ,the plastic piece.
    As far as that door I removed the 2 screws, then I put the food about vertical, just so the hole was exposed.
    When I push the pin in, at the proper position, it will go in a little further which makes me believe it is in the right place.
    So pulling out on the door on the side where the pin is installed 1st?
    How hard can you pull?
    I believe I had as much pressure as I was comfortable putting on it, however I was pulling straight on the door.
    I will give it another go.

  24. #174
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    1- Unlock the door under control (guarding with your other hand)
    2- open door slowly till the side hole appears on the side
    3- Stick the wire in
    4-Now let go of the door completely (with the wire in place) and see how far it will go on its own
    5- if it goes all the way down to horizontal-> the wire is not inserted properly-> pull the wire out, close the door and start over
    6- If the wire is inserted properly, when you let go of the door it should stop at about ~ 35 degree angle from horizontal (door roughly 4/5 open but not all the way open)
    7- once the wire appears to make a difference (in how wide the door opens) then this is the green light the wire is doing the trick
    8-At this point let the door open itself to the max the wire allows to go and then pull one joint out followed by the other (it feels scary but nothing breaks). I jerked the right side first followed by the left (wire is no related to pulling hinges out; wire only controls how far the hinges can rotate around their access before they reach a stop)
    9-Once the door is detached leave the wire in to prevent the hinges from changing their angle until the door is re-installed. The wire basically acts as a stop/break to limit how far the hinges can spin around their central access (hinges have built in spiral springs) and once the hinges hit the wire the stop and hold their position.
    Last edited by tekoo; 11-18-2018 at 06:43 PM.

  25. #175
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    The door did not go all the way to the bottom so must have been right.
    I’ll have to put a little more effort on the door.
    Thanks again

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