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Thread: Jerry's car project

  1. #76
    Join Date
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    2007 Z4 M Coupe
    About upper oil pan gasket. You can just cut off the old gasket with a sharp knife/razor. Then buy brand new gasket and cut off only the portion to replace the old gasket. And when you are ready to assemble just put some liquid gasket maker where both gaskets would meet. Worked like a charm for me; super quick/easy process.
    Current: 2007 Z4 M Coupe (blue/black)
    Previous: 2001 740iL Sport (black/black), 2000 528i Sport (black/tan), 1995 318is (black/black), 1991 318is (white/black)

  2. #77
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    2001 BMW 740i

    Timing Cover is OFF!

    Dude: You may have saved my life; I'm going to check but I think you may be right; regardless, it's a great idea and I'll let you know how it turns out. Thanks.

    Oldroller: YOU ARE THE MAN!! What a great tip. Right on the money. When that bolt came off, the cover came off like butter. Before reading your next post, after the cover was off and I examined the damage, it all appears to be in the front and a little around the corners, but I can see the connection to the good gasket. I can't believe its finally off! I was looking at the oil pump and it looks tightly on, no wiggle. Chain also looks within specs. You really made my MONTH with your find. Thanks so much. This was the post I thought I lost. Glad it came through.
    Last edited by Jerry Scholder; 06-30-2018 at 05:10 PM. Reason: New Information

  3. #78
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    2001 BMW 740i

    The Nightmare Has Arrived.

    Attachment 632795
    Quote Originally Posted by oldroller View Post
    Dredging back through a dull memory I also had a 'doh' moment with my timing cover. After looking at your pics
    I saw they were all of early M62 engines, before water cooled alternator. Yours should have the alt bucket hanging
    to the right looking at it, yes? My miss was the bolt between the two bosses for the tensioner, buried in gunk. I dug the cover out for the M62TU I'm building
    and took a pic...
    My miss was the bolt between the two bosses for the tensioner, buried in gunk. I dug the cover out for the M62TU I'm building
    and took a pic...[/QUOTE]


    One more thing if I can: A game changer just occurred, while checking the oil pump to be sure nuts and bolts were tight, I saw this: NIGHTMARE!

    Basically, upper gasket of oil pan is toast. Only good news; (which is really reaching) I don't have to worry about tearing it when I take the timing cover off. Have you seen any alternatives to unbolting the tranny and subframe or similar things that CAN'T be done by a backyard mechanic (me). Or taking engine out. I've got about $1200 in parts into it so far with Front End re-build with shocks, ABS re-build, Instrument cluster re-build, main tension assembly, tools, M62 timing chain rental, PCS, cabin filters, forget the labor as was mostly fun and educational. I have an identical 2001 740i in "excellent" shape in the Garage. I was doing this "project" as a challenge and to prepare for any work needed on the newer version. "I was having so much fun"...
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Jerry Scholder; 06-30-2018 at 09:42 AM. Reason: screw up

  4. #79
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    2001 740iL Prod 4/2000
    Hold on, no panic Jerry...wait until you have the lower cover off, and see where the gasket has disconnected. Usually it will be at the bolt holes, in your case probably the 2 closest to the block. If some gasket remains, use a sharp knife and cut it cleanly even with the block face.
    Then you have two options. Buy an upper oil pan gasket ($18) and cut the section you need for the timing cover, install with anaerobic sealer especially at the corners.
    Or you could get a piece of Garlock gasket paper in the same thickness and make your own.
    The surfaces will need to be grease free, of course, brake or carb cleaner works well.

    This all bends its mind as to whether or not the gasket is broken behind the front block edge...hopefully the oil pan bolts into the block front were not disturbed.
    And if they are disturbed, it's not a project killer. Sealer can be injected into the area (super clean it) and proceed. It is a learning project, right? Sealers today have much better capabilities than we used back in the dark ages BC (before computers). Carefully done it will hold.

    Given the time/expense of pulling the engine or subframe (bound to be unexpected issues), see what you have first.
    Take a breath, and carry on!

  5. #80
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    Oct 2017
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    2001 BMW 740i

    Timing Chain update

    Quote Originally Posted by oldroller View Post
    Hold on, no panic Jerry...wait until you have the lower cover off, and see where the gasket has disconnected. Usually it will be at the bolt holes, in your case probably the 2 closest to the block. If some gasket remains, use a sharp knife and cut it cleanly even with the block face.
    Then you have two options. Buy an upper oil pan gasket ($18) and cut the section you need for the timing cover, install with anaerobic sealer especially at the corners.
    Or you could get a piece of Garlock gasket paper in the same thickness and make your own.
    The surfaces will need to be grease free, of course, brake or carb cleaner works well.

    This all bends its mind as to whether or not the gasket is broken behind the front block edge...hopefully the oil pan bolts into the block front were not disturbed.
    And if they are disturbed, it's not a project killer. Sealer can be injected into the area (super clean it) and proceed. It is a learning project, right? Sealers today have much better capabilities than we used back in the dark ages BC (before computers). Carefully done it will hold.

    Given the time/expense of pulling the engine or subframe (bound to be unexpected issues), see what you have first.
    Take a breath, and carry on!
    I continue to have issues with the website losing my information after going to Manage Attachments. It lets me write but then suddenly tells me I'm not logged in and when I log in and go back my comments are lost. Anyway I agree with all you've said and I probably should do the gasket cut and match and also to be safe, inject sealer into the other areas. Sorry if this has posted twice due to the mix-up. Great catch again on the bolt. Really glad that timing cover is off.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  6. #81
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    2001 BMW 740i
    Didn't know what a dowel pin was till now. Water pump had a couple attached to them, one needs to be replaced as I took it out thinking it was a thread replacement.

  7. #82
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    2001 740iL Prod 4/2000
    Looks like you caught the guide failure early, a good thing.

    The two water pump pipes extend across the valley pan to the accumulator at the rear. If those
    o-rings are disturbed pulling the pump, a leak can occur there. Just a fyi.

  8. #83
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    2001 BMW 740i
    The two water pipes appear to be still on solid but can't really know unless I replace the rings. I would love to know how to get the wire boxes off and out of the way and attack the manifold gaskets and rings. If you know of a good DIY, I would be interested in looking at it. One video suggested cutting the wires; I decided to skip that one. Is there any way to confirm if the rest of the gasket on the upper oil pan is still intact? I'm going to seal the entire area when I learn the best method to do so.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by racer2086 View Post
    Did you remove all of the bolts from underneath inside the oil pan?

    Remember the cover has to slide straight off especially at the bottom because of those dowel pins. Make sure you didn't miss one of the bolts from below. Look at these pictures from Pelican Parts. They are for an E39, but same engine with slight differences based on the years. What year is your car?


    that's the cover removed from the car. Don't know which alternator you have though, so the driver's side may be different.

    Here are the holes were the upper pan gasket sits. They will have bolts going through them bolted into the bottom of that lower timing cover. That driver's side lower hole you get from OUTSIDE the pan if I'm remembering correctly. You can also see the dowel pins at the bottom. Don't pry the cover off by tipping it out from the top!
    Unfortunately, the diagram showing all the bolts was a bit different than the timing chain cover I have for a 2001 740i and I missed a bolt. Another learning moment....
    Last edited by Jerry Scholder; 07-01-2018 at 09:24 AM. Reason: sentence structure

  9. #84
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    2001 BMW 740i

    Lower Timing Chain Cover/Resolved

    Lower Timing Cover off; thanks to "oldroller" I learned I was in fact missing a bolt that needed to be removed. The diagram I had of all the bolts to remove was not accurate for my vehicle, 2001 740i and I didn't see it. After it was removed, the cover came off like butter. The front gasket was damaged, but I'm hoping the rest of it is intact and I can cut a piece from the new one to replace the damaged area. Time to move on; what a great feeling to have solved another adversity.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Jerry Scholder; 07-01-2018 at 09:39 AM. Reason: spelling

  10. #85
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    E30 E38 E46 E85 F150 GTI
    You can definitely just replace the broken front part of the upper oil pan gasket. A little rtv coating and dabs in the corners and you’ll be good to go.
    2000 740i Sport | 2004 330xi | 1988 325i Vert | 2003 Z4 2.5 | 1995 Ford F150 | 2018 GTI

  11. #86
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    2001 740iL Prod 4/2000
    The upper oil pan gasket is not known for leaking, just check the bolts for tightness.

    The best way I've found to remove the wiring looms is to remove the fuel rail holddown bolts and lift the rail,
    boxes and injectors as one piece and lay them carefully over to the right and secure it to the right hood hinge
    with a bungee or string. Removing the injector clips is a pita, not necessary. The injectors slide into their holes,
    sealed via o-rings. Blow/vacuum any debris from around the injectors, shoot a little WD-40 around the injectors
    and lift carefully, watching as the injectors come free. You will need to unbolt the insulator mounts (mark them for location)
    and vacuum solenoids. Mark your vacuum lines.
    Once removed you have full access to the manifold. Wad some paper towels and plug the injector holes.
    Once manifold is removed, tape the holes over. It's a drag to chase stuff once it falls in the holes... been there, chased that.

    And when lifting the rail boxes, be careful not to kink the fuel delivery line at the back, flexible line. I removed mine from the
    hard pipe at the right back side.
    Last edited by oldroller; 07-01-2018 at 10:38 AM. Reason: more

  12. #87
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    Mar 2018
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    Bella Vista, Ar
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    2001 BMW 740iL
    Ditto the above, except due to some wires running down under I went to the left and not the right. Was able to tilt the whole mess 90 degrees out of my way. Injectors, boxes and fuel rail as one.



    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
    2001 740iL "Silver Beauty"
    1986 Porsche 951 "Silver Bullet"
    1987 Porsche 944 NA Auto (rebuilding for my son's first car)
    https://home.doonze.net/filepage.php <- BMW/Porsche doc's and files, work in progress

  13. #88
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    Dec 2009
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    Everett, WA
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    07’ 750li; 01’ 740il
    Thanks for sharing your progress. Wishing you success and I will be following. I have this same project coming up soon, after I get my transmission problem solved. I’ve got a diesel sound at idle and if I’m in there to mess with the VANOS, I might as well do the chains and guides because there’s no history of anything being done in the 100K on top of the 100K the previous owner drove the car.

  14. #89
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    Cocoa Beach Florida
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    2001 BMW 740i

    Thanks for the Replies

    Quote Originally Posted by Timm View Post
    Don't forget that the camshaft rotates 360 degrees for every TWO crankshaft revolutions - so with the TDC pin fitted you may be on the exhaust stroke of Cylinder #1 rather than the compression stroke - so you can be 180 degrees out on the camshafts even though the TDC pin is fitted.....
    Great Thought. I hope I did it right, but definitely worth making sure as I never thought of that. Thanks for the tip.

    - - - Updated - - -


    - - - Updated - - -


    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by capnmoench View Post
    Thanks for sharing your progress. Wishing you success and I will be following. I have this same project coming up soon, after I get my transmission problem solved. I’ve got a diesel sound at idle and if I’m in there to mess with the VANOS, I might as well do the chains and guides because there’s no history of anything being done in the 100K on top of the 100K the previous owner drove the car.
    Sounds like you have all the right tools, but if you need something let me know and I could get it to you a lot cheaper than you having to Buy it. Also, if you're as skilled as I think, maybe you could recommend how to learn to take the wire boxes of the manifold so I can get to the valley pan, etc. Thanks for your interest.
    Last edited by Jerry Scholder; 07-01-2018 at 02:06 PM. Reason: Individual replies

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by clarkitect View Post
    You can definitely just replace the broken front part of the upper oil pan gasket. A little rtv coating and dabs in the corners and you’ll be good to go.
    I want to seal the whole oil pan gasket area in case damage also occurred where I can't see it. Any idea of how I could tell if I need to do this and what I would need to do?

  16. #91
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    07’ 750li; 01’ 740il
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Scholder View Post
    Sounds like you have all the right tools, but if you need something let me know and I could get it to you a lot cheaper than you having to Buy it. Also, if you're as skilled as I think, maybe you could recommend how to learn to take the wire boxes of the manifold so I can get to the valley pan, etc. Thanks for your interest.
    i don’t have the tools as of yet. I was going to buy them along with the parts when the time comes.. This is in the future after I either rebuild or replace my transmission. Thanks for the offer. I might be hitting you up.

  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Scholder View Post
    I want to seal the whole oil pan gasket area in case damage also occurred where I can't see it. Any idea of how I could tell if I need to do this and what I would need to do?
    To access the entire upper oil pan you need to drop the subframe or remove the engine. Most of the time people just replace and reseal the broken front part from where the lower timing cover was removed.
    2000 740i Sport | 2004 330xi | 1988 325i Vert | 2003 Z4 2.5 | 1995 Ford F150 | 2018 GTI

  18. #93
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    98 740il, 00 540i,04 ZHP
    Here's how I thought about that...By the time you buy the two pads per side, you're in for $20. Why not just spring for the all new tensioner with new o-rings and with new pads for $60? How many times are you gonna take the front of the engine apart?
    '98 740il | 9/97 build | schwarz 2 | sandbeige | 5AT | 270k
    '04 330i ZHP sedan | Mystic blue | Alcantara | 6MT | 120k
    '00 540i sport | Titanium silver | Black | 5AT | 152k
    '85 Mustang GT convertible | Medium charcoal metallic | Gray | 5MT | 216k | one owner, all original

    mods: m-pars | Bilsteins & B&G springs | ValentineOne | StealthOne
    retrofits: full nav | MKIV | bluetooth TCU | BM53 w/ AUX input | video module w/ AV input & backup cam | oem sirius xm | xenon | shades | PDC | rain sensor | BMW DWS TPMS | lighted door handles | front seat heaters | heated steering wheel | euro rear fog lights | ski pass | folding mirrors


  19. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by georgebest View Post
    Are you putting back the old tensioners? I'm not sure I would do that.
    Tensioners to be replaced; are they normally part of a lower chain timing assembly installation kit?

  20. #95
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    Lower Timing Chain Cover/Resolved

    Quote Originally Posted by racer2086 View Post
    Here's how I thought about that...By the time you buy the two pads per side, you're in for $20. Why not just spring for the all new tensioner with new o-rings and with new pads for $60? How many times are you gonna take the front of the engine apart?
    Racer: I wish you weren't right, because I'm now on a Second Mortgage for the house, and my wife is suggesting I just sleep in the car....LOL Seriously, that's what I like about you guys; don't cheap out and have to do it over again. Hey, what do you think about the upper oil pan front gaskets being repaired? Can you really seal the whole upper oil pan somehow without lowering the subframe, pulling the engine or junking the car? (Last option is out).

    Broke the oil separator while removing the timing chain guide (typical result from being brittle). No big deal. Checked oil pump for chain tension, loose bolts, and firm pump position; all good.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  21. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Scholder View Post
    Racer: I wish you weren't right, because I'm now on a Second Mortgage for the house, and my wife is suggesting I just sleep in the car....LOL Seriously, that's what I like about you guys; don't cheap out and have to do it over again. Hey, what do you think about the upper oil pan front gaskets being repaired? Can you really seal the whole upper oil pan somehow without lowering the subframe, pulling the engine or junking the car? (Last option is out).

    Broke the oil separator while removing the timing chain guide (typical result from being brittle). No big deal. Checked oil pump for chain tension, loose bolts, and firm pump position; all good.
    Yeah that's the issue with these cars...the parts add up fast. Financially speaking, if it makes more sense to just get the plastic, you will more than likely be fine just replacing that. I was in school when I did my guides, so it wasn't an easy decision, but man I was afraid of having to do it again.

    The oil separator is definitely a part to replace along with all the o-rings for the tubes leading up to it -- my prefacelift car had a metal elbow that could pull out and had 2 o-rings on it.

    In terms of the upper oil pan gasket, you don't have to worry about dropping the pan. You can either buy a new one and just cut the front off the new gasket to fit in front of the block or RTV that area as a gasket replacement. Mine stayed in place and I just put RTV on top and bottom of the old gasket and left it. I think I would buy a new gasket, cut the old one off flush with the block, and cut the new one to fit in there. RTV where they meet, skim RTV on top and bottom of the new gasket you are placing, and leave it at that. For sure do not worry about the rest of the upper pan gasket and having to seal it. There is no way you disturbed it towards the back. (Keep in mind, that gasket really isn't under pressure per se, but rather needs to keep all the dripping and flying oil inside from seeping outside.

    BTW, some will disagree with me, but I skim all of the gasket surfaces with Ultra Grey RTV to get an adhesive bond of the gasket to mating surface. I find these BMW rubber gaskets get hard pretty quick and seep oil in a way short time. I did my timing chain job 30k miles ago and there isn't a film of oil anywhere on my engine skimming the gaskets with RTV. I even do the lower oil pan gasket and the oil level sensor gasket. I went through 2 lower oil pan gaskets before I gave up, cleaned the surfaces again and the old gasket, and skimmed RTV on the faces. Dry as a bone. (Should have done that with my transmission pan gasket, because now that's seeping everywhere! grrr)
    '98 740il | 9/97 build | schwarz 2 | sandbeige | 5AT | 270k
    '04 330i ZHP sedan | Mystic blue | Alcantara | 6MT | 120k
    '00 540i sport | Titanium silver | Black | 5AT | 152k
    '85 Mustang GT convertible | Medium charcoal metallic | Gray | 5MT | 216k | one owner, all original

    mods: m-pars | Bilsteins & B&G springs | ValentineOne | StealthOne
    retrofits: full nav | MKIV | bluetooth TCU | BM53 w/ AUX input | video module w/ AV input & backup cam | oem sirius xm | xenon | shades | PDC | rain sensor | BMW DWS TPMS | lighted door handles | front seat heaters | heated steering wheel | euro rear fog lights | ski pass | folding mirrors


  22. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by racer2086 View Post
    Yeah that's the issue with these cars...the parts add up fast. Financially speaking, if it makes more sense to just get the plastic, you will more than likely be fine just replacing that. I was in school when I did my guides, so it wasn't an easy decision, but man I was afraid of having to do it again.
    Tell me about it On the other hand I have had no issues with the car since I have finished the job and it's a pleasure to use it. So eventually worth it.

  23. #98
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    With you there, Racer. I skimmed the gaskets also, no leaks. Don't get funky wild with, just a thin bead then smear it smooth
    with a finger. Just extra insurance.

  24. #99
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    2001 BMW 740i

    Jerry's car

    ​I know someone can help me with this "simple" problem that is incredibly difficult for me to get an answer to. The problem seems to be that I may be asking the question in the wrong way. I'm not even sure if the question is appropriate or if the problem is not actually a problem; I may be looking at something that is not what it appears.

    I have a 2001 740i with about 200,000 miles on it. The production date is 3/2000, (not sure how it's a 2001) and listed as a 740iA. I post this because I have received diagrams that did not account for this information and the incorrect information was costly in time. I have been trying to disconnect the power steering hoses for weeks and can't find a way to disconnect the Steering Gear box hoses due to their very difficult access and inability to get a socket or wrench or crows foot or universal joint on the 19mm bolt as it is very close to the head; nearly underneath it. A picture is attached. Other than disconnecting the Gear box, I can't think of any way out of this. Has anyone had this problem and can tell me how they handled it? I can't even get someone to confirm I need to take both bolts off as everyone keeps referring to the larger 22mm bolt. Do I need a special tool/socket/?. Called BMW and they said they remove the Gear box; doubt it.19mm PS bolt.jpg The bolt is the smaller one on the left just below the banjo bolt. Is it a PS Hose bolt? Thanks for any help.
    Last edited by Jerry Scholder; 07-02-2018 at 09:01 PM. Reason: structural

  25. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by clarkitect View Post
    To access the entire upper oil pan you need to drop the subframe or remove the engine. Most of the time people just replace and reseal the broken front part from where the lower timing cover was removed.
    I have this idea but never tried: can you drop the upper oil pan only a few mms, without taking out the subframe? Carving out old gasket then cut in half a new one and put in from each side separately. I'd get some kind of E38 Noble price if this worked Was underneath the car and looking at it but not sure if I can drop the back part of the pan even a few mms with the subframe on. Will try when I have too much time.

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