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Thread: Jerry's car project

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Scholder View Post
    Camshaft Chain Tensioner Locking clips can't be used due to plastic inserts brittle and broke while trying to insert; what do I do now? Thanks.
    Are you putting back the old tensioners? I'm not sure I would do that.

  2. #52
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    They are more expensive than I thought, $60: https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...oner-551001510
    Still, I would probably replace them if they started to break apart.
    Last edited by georgebest; 06-27-2018 at 08:04 PM.

  3. #53
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    Lower Timing Chain Cover Removal

    2001 740i E38 O.K., so I took out what I thought were all the bolts necessary to remove the lower timing chain cover; even took pics to prove it. Then I got a diagram to cross check what bolts needed to come out. Can't find where I might have missed one. Got the 5 inside the oil pan cover and the 1 outside. Counted 10-10mm bolts and 5-13mm bolts, a total of 15 bolts (not including oil pan). Before I start banging away and using a crow bar (just kidding) I would appreciate any thoughts on how I might approach this dilemma. Should I have to use creative methods to break this bad boy loose what would "you" suggest. It has occurred to me I need to further dis-assemble the crankshaft, but have seen nothing on this.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  4. #54
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    I counted 15 also. It's probably just stuck to the gasket on the bottom or the dowel pins.
    Trevor
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  5. #55
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    You can replace just the plastic pads.
    Trevor
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  6. #56
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    Crankshaft and Timing Cover Removal

    Thanks for the reply. The attached picture seems to indicate the Crankshaft is not all the way dis-assembled; is this possible I've been told this is fine the way it is. Trying to confirm I took the right external engine bolt out near the oil pan.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Jerry Scholder; 06-28-2018 at 10:31 PM. Reason: Answer

  7. #57
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    You need a crow bar. Hard to say from picture if you removed all bolts on lower left side, but I assume you did. Mine was badly stuck as well, I thought I missed a bolt, but no, it was just the old gasket stuck. Crankshaft seal will come off with the cover, nothing to do there. You need a new one.
    You will need a new upper oil pan gasket cause there is no way it wont tear up when you remove the cover.
    Also, you got a new "Jesus bolt", right? Cause old one cant be reused.
    Good progress, congrats!

  8. #58
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    Like 007008 says, just replace the 4 tensioner pads.
    You need 4x of these:
    https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...er-11311435028

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillConn View Post
    Like 007008 says, just replace the 4 tensioner pads.
    You need 4x of these:
    https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...er-11311435028
    Much better!

  10. #60
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    George: As always, thanks for your continued help. As for the crow bar, there isn't a whole lot of places to use it without risk of damaging something. I could use some suggestions as to how to go about this. Can I use a mallet to bang on some areas to get them loose? I've decided to take out a second mortgage on my house. LOL Thanks for the encouragement.

  11. #61
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    So when you remove that lower cover, you kinda want to be careful with the gasket between it and the upper oil pan. That gasket is not easy to replace. Chances are it will break when you get the cover off and you can use RTV to reseal the broken piece, but if you are careful you can get it off without damage.

    First, I would use an instrument to try to separate the upper oil pan gasket from the bottom of the timing cover, so it stays with the upper oil pan.

    Second loosen and break away the upper part of the cover.

    Third, and probably your issue, is that there are sleeves inside the two lower holes at the bottom of the lower timing cover that align and center the lower timing cover. These make it tight slipping the bottom out. That's why I recommend getting the lower gasket separated from the base of the timing cover and then breaking the top loose. Then the lower portion of the cover has to slide forward -- you will have a hard time tipping the lower cover forward from the top due to those metal sleeves which slip about 5mm into the lower holes on the lower timing cover.
    Last edited by racer2086; 06-28-2018 at 12:36 PM.
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  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by racer2086 View Post
    So when you remove that lower cover, you kinda want to be careful with the gasket between it and the upper oil pan. That gasket is not easy to replace. Chances are it will break when you get the cover off and you can use RTV to reseal the broken piece, but if you are careful you can get it off without damage.

    First, I would use an instrument to try to separate the upper oil pan gasket from the bottom of the timing cover, so it stays with the upper oil pan.

    Second loosen and break away the upper part of the cover.

    Third, and probably your issue, is that there are sleeves inside the two lower holes at the bottom of the lower timing cover that align and center the lower timing cover. These make it tight slipping the bottom out. That's why I recommend getting the lower gasket separated from the base of the timing cover and then breaking the top loose. Then the lower portion of the cover has to slide forward -- you will have a hard time tipping the lower cover forward from the top due to those metal sleeves which slip about 5mm into the lower holes on the lower timing cover.
    I found the easiest on the driver side to loosen it, actually used a hammer and a punch from underneath.
    In my case there was no way to remove it without damaging the upper oil pan gasket it was so badly stuck. But even if you managed that somehow...you wouldnt put back the exposed portion of the old gasket I guess. Racer and others suggested to buy a new gasket and just cut out the part needed and I did that, it's only $11. I have no leaks there so worked quite well, applied also gasket maker in the corners.
    Last edited by georgebest; 06-28-2018 at 01:25 PM.

  13. #63
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    Yep, it can be a bugger. From the picture you have the upper loose, side gaskets area.
    I used a thin razor knife, the kind that have snap-off sections with a blade about 1/2" wide.
    Inserted between the oil pan gasket and the cover, slip your way carefully side to side, freeing
    the gasket. The cover needs to come off as straight as possible due to the dowel pins at the lower
    corners. Two very thin screwdrivers in the lower area assist in separating the cover from the block.

    I was able to reuse the oil pan gasket, as it came loose cleanly. Anaerobic sealer in the corners, with a thin bead
    below and above the oil pan gasket, thin smear on the lower cover face.

  14. #64
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    Kind of a side note: these gasket makers are amazing. I think they could replace some of the gaskets entirely. Will probably try it out as an experience at an easy to access location. I'm using this everywhere: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
    Last edited by georgebest; 06-28-2018 at 06:13 PM.

  15. #65
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    A Real Quandry

    Quote Originally Posted by georgebest View Post
    I found the easiest on the driver side to loosen it, actually used a hammer and a punch from underneath.
    In my case there was no way to remove it without damaging the upper oil pan gasket it was so badly stuck. But even if you managed that somehow...you wouldnt put back the exposed portion of the old gasket I guess. Racer and others suggested to buy a new gasket and just cut out the part needed and I did that, it's only $11. I have no leaks there so worked quite well, applied also gasket maker in the corners.
    cover gasket.JPGgasket cover.JPGpass pry locations.jpg


    The Good News is the Passenger side is detached on top; the bad news is I can't budge the other side with a crow bar placed in the top middle of the cover; no other areas where I can pry from. Is it possible the outside engine bolt that I removed is the wrong one? The gaskets are metal and I'll be surprised if the upper oil pan gasket survives but I will try using a razor at bottom of cover. This cover is making the Jesus Bolt look fun. I need to be able to pry the drivers side loose somehow. I haven't found a spot to use that won't damage things around it. If all the bolts are out this thing is like welded on. "A hammer and a punch from underneath"? Not sure where you punched underneath. How did that work out? Someone please remind me where the outside bolt is on the drivers side. I had a picture in a previous post.

  16. #66
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    By a punch I meant something like this: https://www.amazon.com/TEKTON-66053-...p?ie=UTF8&th=1
    I think I just used a socket extension bar and a hammer at the driver side while laying under the car, somewhere around the alternator cover perhaps. But I think oldroller's method is better.
    It's kind of obvious which bolts securing the cover from underneath, I think there is only one outside the rest is inside.
    Are you sure that all the side bolts are out?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Could you make a picture from underneath? Maybe you still have that outside bolt in it.
    Also, have you removed the oil cooler and the power steering bolts at the driver side?
    Make a lot of pictures and we will figure it out

  17. #67
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    I can do this!

    Quote Originally Posted by georgebest View Post
    You need a crow bar. Hard to say from picture if you removed all bolts on lower left side, but I assume you did. Mine was badly stuck as well, I thought I missed a bolt, but no, it was just the old gasket stuck. Crankshaft seal will come off with the cover, nothing to do there. You need a new one.
    You will need a new upper oil pan gasket cause there is no way it wont tear up when you remove the cover.
    Also, you got a new "Jesus bolt", right? Cause old one cant be reused.
    Good progress, congrats!
    I used the crow bar on the passenger side and loosened the top. The drivers side is not budging. I'll work on the bottom of the cover tomorrow with a thin blade.

  18. #68
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    Timing Chain update

    Pictures are no problem. I know what a punch is; I'm laughing. I couldn't visualize what you were punching from underneath. That darn external bolt is what bothers me. Oil cooler and PS bolts at drivers side, not sure. PS pump is off. Oil cooler doesn't seem to have any bolts going into the timing cover? I'll get this solved. Thanks for hanging in there with me. Timing cover outside bolt removed picture.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Scholder View Post
    Pictures are no problem. I know what a punch is; I'm laughing. I couldn't visualize what you were punching from underneath. That darn external bolt is what bothers me. Oil cooler and PS bolts at drivers side, not sure. PS pump is off. Oil cooler doesn't seem to have any bolts going into the timing cover? I'll get this solved. Thanks for hanging in there with me. Timing cover outside bolt removed picture.
    Sorry for explaining something obvious, but as English is not my first language I'm never sure if using the right word
    I'm away from my car what makes it difficult to compare but I think you have the right bolt out. Oil cooler (or as BMW calls the Heat Exchanger) should be removed. Only two bolts, no need to remove the actual oil line hoses just the bolts, say a few prayers if they are not leaking
    I know that this is a stupid question...but you got the alternator out, right?

  20. #70
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    Did you remove all of the bolts from underneath inside the oil pan?

    Remember the cover has to slide straight off especially at the bottom because of those dowel pins. Make sure you didn't miss one of the bolts from below. Look at these pictures from Pelican Parts. They are for an E39, but same engine with slight differences based on the years. What year is your car?


    that's the cover removed from the car. Don't know which alternator you have though, so the driver's side may be different.

    Here are the holes were the upper pan gasket sits. They will have bolts going through them bolted into the bottom of that lower timing cover. That driver's side lower hole you get from OUTSIDE the pan if I'm remembering correctly. You can also see the dowel pins at the bottom. Don't pry the cover off by tipping it out from the top!
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    '98 740il | 9/97 build | schwarz 2 | sandbeige | 5AT | 270k
    '04 330i ZHP sedan | Mystic blue | Alcantara | 6MT | 120k
    '00 540i sport | Titanium silver | Black | 5AT | 152k
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  21. #71
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    Chain Tensioners

    Quote Originally Posted by georgebest View Post
    They are more expensive than I thought, $60: https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...oner-551001510
    Still, I would probably replace them if they started to break apart.
    ​Good call. I'll be replacing just the pads as suggested. In for a penny......

    Went the safe route and agreed with "racer"; will just get the new tensioners for whatever the extra cost. Hate to have to do this job again.

    - ff- - Updated - - -
    Last edited by Jerry Scholder; 07-02-2018 at 11:32 AM. Reason: changed mind

  22. #72
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    20180629_143642.jpgDredging back through a dull memory I also had a 'doh' moment with my timing cover. After looking at your pics
    I saw they were all of early M62 engines, before water cooled alternator. Yours should have the alt bucket hanging
    to the right looking at it, yes?

    My miss was the bolt between the two bosses for the tensioner, buried in gunk. I dug the cover out for the M62TU I'm building
    and took a pic...

  23. #73
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    When the flywheel/ timing pin is in the flywheel hole doesn't that coincide with it being close to #1 TDC? Wouldn't the numbered flats on the back end of the camshafts be up as a result. It was neat to see the hole and the pin fitting into it. Had someone turning the crank while I was under the car looking for the hole. The timing cover continues to be a pain; not being 100% sure I removed all the relevant bolts doesn't help. I'll be taking pictures soon. Broke the timing tensioner clips and an upper end of a rail on the drivers side while trying to break free the upper-lower cover connection. Also hoping to lower the upper oil pan some to save the gasket when removing the timing cover.

  24. #74
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    Don't forget that the camshaft rotates 360 degrees for every TWO crankshaft revolutions - so with the TDC pin fitted you may be on the exhaust stroke of Cylinder #1 rather than the compression stroke - so you can be 180 degrees out on the camshafts even though the TDC pin is fitted.....
    Timm..2007 E64 650i Individual Sport..1999 E31 840ci Individual Sport..ex owner of 2000 E38 740..1999 E38 740i V8 M62..1998 E38 735i V8..1993 E32 730i V8..1988 E28 518i


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  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timm View Post
    Don't forget that the camshaft rotates 360 degrees for every TWO crankshaft revolutions - so with the TDC pin fitted you may be on the exhaust stroke of Cylinder #1 rather than the compression stroke - so you can be 180 degrees out on the camshafts even though the TDC pin is fitted.....
    I know somebody very well who made that mistake and was surprised when the engine didnt start, lol
    The key is that the number markings should be visible when you put the timing banks on the camshaft. If you see no numbers on the camshaft ending you are 180 degree off. See photo below, this is how it should be on all four camshafts:

    Attached Images Attached Images

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