Jerry's car project

[georgebest]

George: you may have missed it, but I can't check if the fuel pump is running without knowing how to reconnect the slide connector. Still hoping for information on this.

Sorry, yes, missed that. By slide connector, do you mean the connector underneath the seat, powering the fuel pump? Here is the TIS link for that one, probably helps figuring it out:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...l-pump/ChVt7qg

[oldroller]

Perhaps this will help? Guy needs to take a leak but be patient...

https://youtu.be/eDsL920pzdQ

Yep that's how it works, slide the outer cover and the tabs extract the connector. Install the same way.

[Jerry Scholder]

Yep that's how it works, slide the outer cover and the tabs extract the connector. Install the same way.

I've seen this video a few times and it almost gave me a heart attack with their sudden loud music. The end of the video was terrible and I guess they had to "cheat" at the finish line. Maybe I'm missing the part about the "Tabs". In any case, I purchased a new fuel pump and fuel filter; at 200,000+ miles, just seemed like the right thing to do.

[georgebest]

I've seen this video a few times and it almost gave me a heart attack with their sudden loud music. The end of the video was terrible and I guess they had to "cheat" at the finish line. Maybe I'm missing the part about the "Tabs". In any case, I purchased a new fuel pump and fuel filter; at 200,000+ miles, just seemed like the right thing to do.

That was probably a good decision, you need to change the filter anyway and the fuel pumps tend to broke down too.

[Jerry Scholder]

That was probably a good decision, you need to change the filter anyway and the fuel pumps tend to broke down too.

Something told me you would approve of purchasing something new to replace something very old. O.K.; so I finally have some pictures of this damn connector and different orientations of lining up the two ends. Which one seems correct? I can't get the white nubs to fit into the slots so the connector will slide into place. Can someone pretend I'm in first grade and explain fully what I "could" be doing wrong. So frustrating......I'm not giving up and will be a PITA until I can get someone to find a way to tell me how to do this......Old Roller was the last one to find the missing piece of the puzzle when he diagnosed bad engine mounts which caused a lack of access space to a power steering hose bolt on the gear box. I know "we" can do this.

[clarkitect]

The black connector is two pieces. The outer shell slides out, press the inner section into the fuel pump connector and slide the cover closed. Sliding it closed will pull the connector tighter via a cam action.

Turn down the sound and watch the video. Forward to 48 seconds, then do the opposite of what he does.

[Ruskii]

Step 1: Roll up your sleeves and take a sip of your beer.

Step 2: Position the black wire plug so the bumps on white fuel pump connector align with the grooves inside the black plug (they look like 1/4 of a circle). At the start, the black plug will be a little bit off-center, more towards the back of the car -- see my red lines in picture below.

Note: The wire on black plug needs to face the front of the car. In your pictures, your wires face the back of the car -- so flip over the plug.

Lining up the plug.PNG

Step 3: Push the black wire plug towards the fuel pump connector -- it will be a little tricky because the plug needs to slide on those white bumps. Note how the red lines in the picture below have shifted towards the front of the car.

End result.PNG

Step 4: Finish your beer.

[georgebest]

Something told me you would approve of purchasing something new to replace something very old..

Lol, I should be the last person to listen to, I have replaced everything on this car to new

[clarkitect]

Step 1: Roll up your sleeves and take a sip of your beer.

Step 2: Position the black wire plug so the bumps on white fuel pump connector align with the grooves inside the black plug (they look like 1/4 of a circle). At the start, the black plug will be a little bit off-center, more towards the back of the car -- see my red lines in picture below.

Note: The wire on black plug needs to face the front of the car. In your pictures, your wires face the back of the car -- so flip over the plug.

Lining up the plug.PNG

Step 3: Push the black wire plug towards the fuel pump connector -- it will be a little tricky because the plug needs to slide on those white bumps. Note how the red lines in the picture below have shifted towards the front of the car.

End result.PNG

Step 4: Finish your beer.

Well done!

[racer2086]

Step 1 and Step 4 are the most important.

[Jerry Scholder]

Step 1 and Step 4 are the most important.

I couldn't agree more....great advice. I'm going out to try it and will let you know.

[Jerry Scholder]

Well done!

I really do "Love" you guys; you've done it again. This could be a learning experience for everyone though I think.

Having learned from you that there was actually 2 pieces to the black connector and that it was supposed to slide, (which I couldn't get it to do) I realized the slide was stuck in the closed position and needed to be in the open position to line up correctly. So I put a small screw driver behind the slide and pushed it forward. Problem solved. I had faith in all of you and knew someone would give me the information to finally solve this crazy problem; which of course is simple after figuring out what was wrong. I never have dealt with this type of connector before. I still don't hear the pump running when I turn the key to the 2nd position, but the battery was down to 10 volts so I'm charging up the battery and will give it another try. I checked Number 17 and 57 fuses in engine and rear fuse boxes. They appear to be fine with no breaks in their bars across. I checked the fuel pump module and it works. I need to find the pins off the black connector to check for power to the white connector.

Thanks again everyone for coming through and helping again.

[Jerry Scholder]

No drama and urgency on this one; hopefully just a general question. I'm still trying to determine why fuel pump won't operate. I am turning the key to position 2 (before starting) and listening for any sound from pump. Back seat is out and I should be able to hear something. I've checked the fuses, relay module, battery charge, (not pins on black connector yet). Is it true I can use a paper clip for a jumper? Is there another relay module under the hood?

It occured to me, maybe if there is not enough fuel in the tank (I took most of it out) the fuel pump will not operate. Any thoughts on this? Thanks Guys (and gals?).

[georgebest]

In my case I can't always hear it when I put it into pos. 2, my guess is that it's measuring fuel pressure and only starting it if too low.
I have used a simple wire to test it, I guess a paper clip should work too. Just make sure you are closing the right pins
Below the explanation from the Bentley manual:


fuel pump test.JPG

[racer2086]

Jerry! I just started looking through your thread. I haven't been following it. I feel bad now after my joking response about steps 1 and 4 before (which I follow myself).

I went back to page 10 to semi-catch up. I would like to back up a bit with you to see if we can figure things out. Please tell me if I'm missing something or if it was covered already.

Looks like you got the guides done and back together. Big deal just in itself! Congrats! I know your focus is on the fuel pump right now. Few things...

Remember, you need 3 things for an engine to run:
Spark (I think you said you had this?)
Fuel (working on that now)
Compression (this will be next) - compression could be "bad" due to bad timing = valves open or leaking when they should be closed

1) there was no fuel pump issue before the guide job, correct? Were you able to put a fuel pressure gauge on the fuel rail to check for fuel pressure? The fuel priming system is kinda complicated (as you are going through now). Let's verify that we have fuel and then we will look at compression.
2) did you pretension the chain with the tool on the passenger side to get the chain on the right teeth / get the timing right? (this is the part I'm afraid I may have missed not going back far enough) - this question is intended to make sure your running issue isn't timing related
3) did you note to make sure you were at true TDC vs 180 degrees out from TDC? That is something that will cause the car not to run because the timing will be out 180*, but act normal otherwise.
4) when you got the car back together, before starting it, did you turn the engine by hand to check for interferences?

One quick and dirty thing to do would be to loosen the belt and turn the engine by hand. You will feel if you are getting some compression or zero, because you will feel resistance as each piston travels on the compression stroke.

The noise in the video, while sounding horrible, could be due to the fact that the lower tensioner was not applying tension to the chain, so you hear chain slap. The tensioner has a spring in it (semi weak, and the tensioner needs to pop out from its compressed state after install), but fills with oil pressure to really give it the tension. I prefilled mine with oil before installing it to minimize the slack on the chain and noise.

What we want to do is make sure that everything is still ok with the timing and engine, make sure you've got fuel and spark, and go from there.

[Jerry Scholder]

Thanks for the amazing checklist; I may need a little help in being sure of some of the questions you're asking, and I still may not be 100% sure of the answer. First, the fuel pump "may" have been going bad and the reason for the car running rough, missing, and not responding when accelerating before I put it out of commission to check for the notorious timing guides breaking and entering the oil pan. It appears to be the original fuel pump with 200K miles on it. (any way of checking if fuel pump is bad when it is out of the car?) As mentioned, I have very little few in the tank and no fuel in the bottom of the pump holder as I drained it. Pre-tension the chain with the tool on the passenger side? Not sure what this means....I did everything by the book and 100% positive the chain was on the right teeth. I did use the proper tools to do the pre-tensioning. How can I double check to be sure the timing is right? I did this step twice, but would like to be sure I was at true TDC on driver's side. Requires taking off valve covers? I have to take water pump off anyway to reseat the pipes going to back of the manifold, so I could turn the engine by hand. I remember turning the engine by hand and having some interference. I then did something and checked it again and it was fine; don't remember what I did to correct it. The driver's side was not aligned correctly at one point and I turned the valves by hand to correct it. I checked and double checked to be sure the valves were in their proper positions. The lower tensioner? Does that have a guide on it? Where is it located? How do I turn the engine by hand? By turning the harmonic balancer with a tool? I did feel and hear the pistons as they travelled on the compression stroke when turning the engine previously. Forgot how I turned it. Wouldn't it be safe to say if the car started for a period of time, I must have gotten spark? Any chance there could be a Crankshaft Sensor issue that would prevent the fuel pump from running? Cam Position Sensors have anything to do with this? Have not put a fuel pressure gauge on the fuel rail; not sure how to do it. Would gladly check if there is anything on the web I can refer to. I'll have to rent or buy a fuel pressure gauge; no problem. I didn't check for spark specifically, so will do this first thing. Should I refill tank with fuel and see if pump will run with fuel in car; at least a 1/4 tank? 5-6 gallons. I'll go back to the timing chain guide instructions to refresh my memory on some of these questions. Re-cap: First, check for spark; Second, add fuel to tank? Third: can compression be checked without car running? I should probably check this right away, don't you think? For fuel pump; do I have to use an "inline fuse" when using the jumper on terminals 2 and 6? Sorry for all the questions. Thanks for your help. I'll do whatever it takes to solve this and get this beast running again. I see it as a continual learning experience. Before I throw any add. $$ into it, I better be sure it's not a compression issue; wouldn't you agree?

[racer2086]

There are many variables going on in your situation. We need to start eliminating them one at a time.

First, lets figure out the fuel pump issue. Get that going and get fuel pressure. I'm not as worried about spark.

Did the car run for any length of time after the timing chain guide job? And I don't mean turned over, but caught and ran.

If you followed the directions on the timing chain guides with the proper tools, it should be done right, but there are ways to miss something.

The lower tensioner is the one screwed into the bottom of the passenger side upper timing cover.

The TDC mark on the timing cover can represent 0* TDC or 180* off from TDC, since there are two rotations of the crank for one of the cam. If you set the car up at 180* out from TDC, its not going to run. When you line up the crank to TDC, the top of cylinder 1 should be all the way up at the top of its compression stroke. Then, the stampings on the cams should be pointing up like when you locked them with the tools.

Yes, you should be able to put a socket on the crank and turn the engine by hand. There it should turn freely. You will feel compression from cylinder since you have the spark plugs in. Feeling that compression is a good thing, meaning you don't have bent valves or something else wrong.

Finish the fuel pump issue first. I don't want to distract from that now, since that is another variable that needs to be fixed first.

[Jerry Scholder]

Have you seen the videos of when I first started it? That was the most it ran. It seemed like it ran for like for 3-5 seconds and then died, probably due to not getting fuel would be my guess. I'm almost sure the fuel pump was probably going before I put it out of service for repairs. The lower tensioner was replaced with a new one; I wouldn't know why that would be a problem as it seemed to go in O.K. I understood the process for lining up the crank to TDC and verified the stampings on the cams were pointing up when locked with the tools. I'm sure of that. I'll put a socket on the crank and turn by hand and get back to you. I can't see if I have spark w/o cranking the engine and can't do that with the water pump coolant tubes not seated properly? Haven't gotten an answer about whether the fuel pump isn't working due to not enough gas in the tank? By the way, I own a "working" 2001 BMW same model and year as the one I'm working on if I have to swap parts to test what may be wrong. The only thing I haven't checked with the fuel pump is power to the black connector from the relay module and fuse. Also haven't used jumper on pins 30 and 87 to try and run the pump. Also, may be important; when I was disconnecting the alternator while preparing to to do the timing guides, I had the battery cable under the hood disconnected but not the battery cables and got some fireworks when the positive terminal touched a ground. I was told the alternator does not have a fuse and it probably did not do any damage. Just saying......

[racer2086]

I did watch the video. My concern was the noise when it started. It sounded different than the normal chain slap that you get before the lower tensioner fills with oil pressure, hence the reason for all my timing questions.

Second thing to realize, you had the car completely apart and the fuel rail was totally empty. The fuel pump needs time to prime and fill the fuel rail. It may take a few starts to let the air out of the rail and get it filled with fuel. Did you give the pump a chance to prime and how many times did you try to start? Just the two in the video? I had to crank my car for a good 10 seconds before it got fuel to run.

Depending upon your answer to my question above, I would say put everything back together and let the pump prime the lines and build pressure. Do this by turning the car to key on for 15-20 seconds, then crank. Some of the injectors may get fuel. Others may have a little air in them or the lines. The car is gonna miss and run like piss until everything fills.

If you disturbed the coolant pipes in the back, you likely will have a leak unless you replace the rear o-rings. What do you think about getting the water pump back on and try cranking the car again?

[Jerry Scholder]

I worked on the fuel pump issue today. The battery keeps losing charge to about 10.4V. I charged it up to 13 and started by trying to jump the relay module on pins 30 and 87 with no luck. I checked the resistance on the relay pins and got two that showed 4.9 on 20K ohms setting. Also checked for power on the pump with the meter while the jumper was in place and nothing. I tried the ignition on and heard nothing. The battery was discharging again. I checked the module relay previously and it was working. Fuses look good. Looking more like the crankshaft sensor. Changed out the CPS on drivers side with the other working BMW. Passenger side of working BMW had a funky screw attaching the MAF black piece below so I couldn't get to the passenger side. Don't you love it when you get a new car and find the old owner liked to "improvise" when making repairs? Any way, the newer BMW started up and appeared to run fine with the CPS exchange. Note: The passenger CPS had oil on it when removed. The Drivers side CPS was bone dry when removed. The water pump coolant pipes came off in the rear. I have new O rings and new water pump gasket and O rings to re-attach. Can O rings be attached to the pipes and then pushed back into place without accessing the rear? That's my plan. I had a waterfall when trying to crank the engine with coolant coming out around the flywheel. Any concerns with me putting 6 gals of gas back in the tank? It's down to fumes right now, so cranking it won't matter. I only tried the two times as I was afraid I might damage something; saw some smoke initially or a mist of coolant and of course the water pump leaked the first time. I really think I should turn the engine by hand to verify (again) that all is in good order. I'll take the water pump off (again) and hopefully be able to reattach the coolant pipes. While I'm doing that I might as well clear the access to the crank and turn the engine by hand. How does the fuel pump prime if it's not operational? I haven't turned the engine over since having the water pump problem. Got the fuel filter in today and will put on tomorrow. Doubt that will get the fuel pump to start though.

[racer2086]

First in regards to the coolant pipes, you cannot put the o-rings on the pipes and slip them in. The o-ring fits inside a groove on the coolant accumulator in the rear. You either have to remove the rear coolant accumulator to take it out of the car and replace the o-rings or remove the intake and then you have free access to the o-rings. I personally find removing intake easier since I've done it so many times. A really really dumb design by BMW in my opinion.

But before you do that, did you replace the rear o-rings when you did the timing chain guides since you probably had the intake off anyway? if the o-rings are new then I would just stick the pipe back in after lubricating the end.

You say the battery is discharging. Is that something you can measure? Hopefully shorting your alternator didn't fry something and it's causing a short now that drains your battery.

Sure you can add gas to the tank. the pump is not going to prime if it's not working or not getting power. So that's what you got to figure out first.

My to-do list would be:
Remove water pump and cooling pipes
Turn Crank by hand at least two revolutions to make sure there are no interferences and you feel compression
Remove intake or rear accumulator replace rear o-rings (IF o-rings aren't new)
Install coolant pipes
Install water pump with all water pump bolts repaired
Test fuel preparation circuit to see why fuel pump isn't getting power
Figure out what's causing the battery leak

[Jerry Scholder]

As always, your responses are instructive and appreciative. I always wanted to remove the intake and in doing so replace any parts that may be susceptible to problems in the future. As you find it easier, I would hope you could refer me to some good DIY videos and/or write ups on this project. Did not have intake off previously. Battery is going from 13V to 10.5V in a couple of days. Alternator test appears to need the engine running? Put 12V cables on Pos. and Neg. terminals of both fuel pumps and they both operated fine. Could a bad battery w/low voltage prevent pump from getting enough power? I have battery charging and will connect power to fuel pump through connector first thing when fully charged. Checked resistance on both pump terminals and the used one I purchased showed 2.1 while the one I took out showed 3.6 on 200 setting. Resistance check on positive and ground wires that plug into fuel pump (on both covers) where power harness connects gave no reading. Thought this was strange. No opens on wires from fuel sensors. Still can't determine if there is power out of the black connector to white connector with pins. Should I try switching relay module from other bmw? Have not gotten any volt readings from fuel pump relay module. What do you mean by all water pump bolts repaired? Test fuel preparation circuit? To be clear, you are talking about the O rings where the coolant pipes enter the rear of the manifold? Will remove water pump and cooling pipes and turn crank, then get back to you. Thanks. On a lighter note; went surf fishing at Cocoa Beach, Fl and caught a nice size Pompano fish and cooked up for dinner.

[racer2086]

Gotta love Florida! You're not too far from me either just the other coast.

I thought you had bolt problems (or one missing) with the water pump? Sorry maybe I read something wrong. I recommend using the green water pump gasket with the black bead on it. Reliable seal without using sealant. https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...511731372#desc

In terms of the battery, low battery voltage does all kinds of strange things to these cars. So I would consider getting a new battery if that is the cause of the issue. However, if there is a battery drain, then you need to fix that first.

I'm sure there are good DIYs out there for the intake, but I haven't used one in years. It's a lot like what you had to do to get the valve covers off...once the electrical boxes are removed, disconnect the vacuum hoses in the back, disconnect the fuel lines, and you can remove the whole intake once unbolted with fuel runners and injectors still intact.

[Jerry Scholder]

Did some various things with the fuel pump to try and narrow down why it won't run when connected to the wire harness. Battery had 10.5 volts. When I connected a jump cable directly to the fuel pump terminals it ran fine, (even with battery voltage low). I checked resistance on the connector pins where the wire harness connects to the white connector and only one pin registered a resistance level. Not sure if this is important.... Checked for voltage on black connector and one connection read 6.6 V at 20. Others were 0.5-1.0. Battery charged at 13+V discharged to 10.5V in about 15-20 minutes. Did not start water pump removal yet.

[TheAngryBear]

Unplug your alternator to ensure that isn’t the short/draw. If that isn’t it then keep the battery on the charger and the doors and trunk open until it goes to “sleep”. Then measure the drop across your fuses to see what circuit is still active. Troubleshoot that circuit.
Your pump runs with direct power but not while plugged into car? You get the fun of sectional voltage drop measurements. Measure the voltage at each step of the path to determine where you are getting 12V and where you loose it. Between those points measure the voltage drop or function of the connection (relay/fuse). You are loosing voltage or continuity someplace. You need to find that and fix it.


2001 750iL DD74441
Stock

RIP: 2003 540iA Sport GS56111
H&R front springs, Ultimate Cup Holder, Euro Dash & Armrest, Grom, BavSound Stage1