Keyless entry gone, reprogramming no work

[RHP]

Good news - 96 740il with 170K made the roundtrip from Maine to Phillie, 1,100 miles, perfectly. Indeed, my car is driving better than ever!

Bad news - keyless entry not working. Changed the batteries in the fog, no joy. Did the "reprogramming" suggested by everyone from within the car. No luck. The key still starts the car fine and the key still lets me open the trunk and lock and open all the doors just fine. Just no keyless function.

I am sure someone can help me!

Thanks - rep

[Mandagon4d]

Good news - 96 740il with 170K made the roundtrip from Maine to Phillie, 1,100 miles, perfectly. Indeed, my car is driving better than ever!

Bad news - keyless entry not working. Changed the batteries in the fog, no joy. Did the "reprogramming" suggested by everyone from within the car. No luck. The key still starts the car fine and the key still lets me open the trunk and lock and open all the doors just fine. Just no keyless function.

I am sure someone can help me!

Thanks - rep

I’m having this same issue, one guy at one of the import garages around here told me to do was to make sure that the battery was making contact with the terminals, ie, take the back off hold the battery’s down and then try the initialization process, he also said to make sure that with it the actual brain of the key itself, that there were no disconnections or corrosion. If not, keys for these cars really aren’t that expensive. $150-$200 is what I’ve been quoted from numerous sources.

[RHP]

I think some liquid might have gotten into my fob - My pal who is very e38 savvy said I need to go to a dealer to deal with this problem. Probably won't - I will just put keyless entry on the list of things I will learn to live without. Still, tho, I would like to know if there isn't some relatively easy fix.

Tomorrow I will open the fob up, and be sure it is super dried.

bye

[RHP]

No luck. Opened up the fob, cleaned it with electronics cleaner, dried it out, tried to reprogram it from in the car, NO LUCK. As far as I know, the keys I have are all original - so is it true that the VIN will allow BMW to make me a new one? Is the dealer the only place that can make them? I thought I heard of some place in Ohio or PA that can for less than the $200 BMW wants....

Thanks for any pointers.....

rip

[Qsilver7]

Did you check the other common issue for keyless lock/unlock failure? That would be the fuel filler flap actuator.

Lock the car manually with the key from the driver's exterior door lock, then walk around to the fuel flap and see if it is locked.

Keyless lock/unlock features usually cease when there's an issue with something in the central locking system. And that would be the trunk, doors, and fuel filler flap (for the easy stuff to deal with)...or the aerial in the rear window, the amp/receivers in the C pillars, or the GM (for more difficult things to figure out).

The doors also share their "monitoring" with the DWA (anti-theft alarm siren system)...so if the DWA's red status LED (on top of the dash) doesn't illuminate and start flashing when you lock the vehicle from the driver's exterior door lock or when using the remote (when it starts working)...then the culprit may be one of the door actuators.

But again, the fuel flap actuator can also be the issue and it's fuse is located in the fuse box above the battery (behind the insulation).

Also make sure that ALL the doors are CLOSED & UNLOCKED when performing the remote initializiation procedure. If a door is OPEN or LOCKED...it, too can cause initialization failure.

In regards to new remote keys...yes, a BMW dealership is usually the place to get a new key (remote or any of the non-remote keys) which requires the last 7 digits of your VIN and proof of ownership. But if you live in some of the larger metropolitan areas...you may be able to find someone with an aftermarket AK90 that can hook up to the car and communicate with the DME or EWS control module where they can retrieve the ISN (individual serial number) that was coded into the EWS control module. Once they have that info, they can then write that information into a new transponder for your remote key which will allow it to communicate with the car's EWS system and allow the car to start. And yo will need to find a keysmith that can cut a blank key blade, too.

There are also some BMW forum members that offer this service, too...but you'll need to suss them out...ask around on the forums and they'll either respond or someone that knows who they are will speak up. But this will require you to remove your ews control module and send it to them so that they can retrieve the info and write to a new transponder chip that you can insert into your new blank key blade...then have the keyblade cut.

Going through the BMW dealer...the key will come in already cut and with the correct ISN assigned to your car's EWS system the day it rolled off the assembly line. The only caveat in this situation is if a previous owner swapped out the original remote key, DME & EWS control module and "Frankensteined" your car with an unknown key & EWS set-up.

[Grady in Texas]

Same problem - very good write-up Qsilver!

[RHP]

Really appreciate the details here. Thank you! I was on an island with no bandwidth. Hence late answer.

It appears i may have shorted out the circuit board bit from inside my fob. Can i just swap in another and go through the in the car coding? Bottom line is Im just trying to save $169 for a new fob - that still would need coding. My fob appears to be beyond resurrection. All other systems seem unchanged. There just is no infrared propegating from my fob.

[RHP]

I guess its not infrared. Im not sure what channel it is or, for that matter how to test it.

[Mandagon4d]

I guess its not infrared. Im not sure what channel it is or, for that matter how to test it.

I don’t think any of the 96’ used infrared, I believe it’s a radio signal. Someone correct me if I’m wrong

[RHP]

I think youre corrrect. IR requires line of sight and recall that isnt hiw my key worked. But how to test the signal? I still dont know if its my car or my fob....,

[Mandagon4d]

I think youre corrrect. IR requires line of sight and recall that isnt hiw my key worked. But how to test the signal? I still dont know if its my car or my fob....,

I’m not exactly sure how you can test the signal. Of course your key might not be putting out, I’m sure you could take it to a locksmith maybe and see if they can test whether the fob itself is actually a putting out a signal. Maybe call around your local locksmiths and see if they can help yo at all, or possibly if you have a import car garage around they might be able to help too..


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[Timm]

You can buy a second-hand key from Ebay - as long as it is the same shape and comes from the country you are in you can oik out the remote part and fit it back in your key. It will program up fine.....

[Qsilver7]

I think youre corrrect. IR requires line of sight and recall that isnt hiw my key worked. But how to test the signal? I still dont know if its my car or my fob....,

If your other keys start the car with no issues at all...then the problem is your remote key...not the EWS components on the car's side of things. If you had issues with the EWS control module or the Ring Antenna...or your DME and EWS control module were out of sync...then the issue would occur with all of your keys when an attempt to start the car was initiated.

The EWS system uses a 125 KHz AM signal to communnicate a coded ISN (individual serial number) between the DME/EWS control module and Ring Antenna. EWS uses induction to power itself when this AM signal is sent to the Ring antenna. As mentioned previously, the battery inside the key is only used by FZV (central locking) and DWA (anti-theft alarm siren system) to transmit a signal on the 315 MHz frequency (in the North American markets) to an aerial in the rear window (Europe and other markets uses a 433 MHz frequency for fzv/dwa transmission). Do NOT confuse the EWS functions with the FZV & DWA features of the remote key...they are independent systems that operate either in conjunction or tandem with each other but do not require the others...especially EWS.

If you have the old style remote (1st iteration uses two 1220 batteries & 2nd iteration uses a single 2016 battery and remote has a red status LED). The EWS transponder in these keys are autonomous and can be moved into another remote of like kind...and if you can find a keysmith to cut the blank key blade...you can just transfer the transponder over into the new key, then initialize the key to gain the fzv/dwa remote locking/arming features.

[RHP]

Huge thank you Quicksilver7! My fob is earlier model with 1220 batteries. Maybe my trandponder bit has lost power? Does it charge if left in iggy position 0 ? Maybe i can leave it in the ignition to recharge it then reprogam it?

Do our diamond keys have an identical transponder embedded?

Thanks to all. Learning a lot.

[RHP]

Can anyone think of a way to determine if it is my transponder that isn't working or the unit that propagates the AM signal? I am leaving the key in the ignition now to see if that helps. Probably Wednesday I will just buy the replacement key which I found for $169. Thanks

[Qsilver7]

Huge thank you Quicksilver7! My fob is earlier model with 1220 batteries. Maybe my trandponder bit has lost power? Does it charge if left in iggy position 0 ? Maybe i can leave it in the ignition to recharge it then reprogam it?

Do our diamond keys have an identical transponder embedded?

Thanks to all. Learning a lot.

No...the ews transponder doesn't charge while left in the ignition (in fact, it doesn't need to be charged because it powers itself when the ignition is turned on...that's what the "induction" is all about.

The new style (diamond shape keys)...DO charge while in the ignition but that is to power the rechargeable battery that is needed for the FZV & DWA functions...not EWS. Remember, the remote operates three different systems...EWS is self powered...but FZV (central locking) and DWA (anti-theft alarm siren system) requires the remote key internal battery to transmit its 315 MHz (or 433 MHz in Europe and most other BMW markets). The replaceable battery in your old style remote powers FZV/DWA in your key...so there's no need for the ignition (Ring Antenna) to charge your remote's battery...you just replace it when it dies.

The diamond shaped remote keys also have a transponder...but it is soldered to the key's internal IC board...as well as the remote's rechargeable battery. It is not as easy to get a replacement key for the new style remotes due to this soldered transponder situation.

In the pic below of the new style (diamond) remote key...you can see how the EWS transponder is soldered to the board...and you can also see the big copper induction coil which does dual purposes in the new style remote...it powers up the transponder (just like the old style remote) when the 125 KHz signal is sent from the EWS control module so that transmission of the EWS ISN can be sent back to verify the key is official. The copper charging coil also helps keep the battery charged (that's soldered to the other side of the IC board) which powers the transmitting of the 315 MHz (or 433 MHz) FM signal for the FZV/DWA operations of the remote key:

Can anyone think of a way to determine if it is my transponder that isn't working or the unit that propagates the AM signal? I am leaving the key in the ignition now to see if that helps. Probably Wednesday I will just buy the replacement key which I found for $169. Thanks

If the EWS control module wasn't working properly...you would have the same no start issues when you use your non remote keys. ALL of your keys have an EWS transponder in them...so if the control module was faulty...it would not differentiate the remote key from the non remote keys and only not work when you use the remote key:

[951Dreams]

Ok, from what I understand, your Key starts the car fine (So EWS/Transponder/induction is working perfectly). Your problem is that the remote functions don't work. Correct?

Here's my suggestion, if you can be without the car for about a week, pull the EWS (Google it) and then find my thread on here about the F10 key fob for E38. There's some contact info in that thread for a guy who will provide and cut you a new BMW diamond key fob and program it to your EWS for about $75. But you do have to mail him your key(for cutting the new keys)/EWS. I'd have him cut you TWO keys personally. It would only be about $25 more for the 2nd. SOOOO worth it. And those keys you buy off ebay/amazon/internet? You STILL have to pay someone to program them to your EWS and cut the key!!!!!! So $169, then $50 or so to have it programmed to YOUR car so it will start it. Your back to the same price as the dealer!!!! Remember, only YOUR KEY will start your car without someone programming your EWS. Any can be programmed to work the keyless entry, but those are TOTALLY SEPARATE systems.

Or you can pay the dealer about $225 + tax per key.... So almost $500 for a couple of keys from the dealer.... Or getting the same thing done by an indy guy like mine for around $100. You just have to mail some stuff, and be out a car for a week or so. Worth it to me.

However... that's all depending on if your problem is for SURE the key FOB. And not your keyless system itself. I've seen "testing" setups at the local parts stores. It has some kind of RF detector that lights up if your FOB is sending a signal. But I've only seen one a few times. Might call around?

[Qsilver7]

The problem the OP will have (in this case) is that he has a 1996 e38. He has the original old style remote (with no red LED in the key). His ignition/Ring Antenna is not set-up to charge the battery inside the new style remote key.

If the person that did your key has new style keys that have room for a new "autonomous" (loose) transponder chip (see pic in post above)...then he can go that route and have a new transponder programmed and dropped into the new style key.

Another scenario...the OP could buy a valet key (usually $50-$100) from his local BMW dealership, then pop the transponder out of it and install it into any BMW remote key from an e38/e39/e53. If his old remote's FZV/DWA features are functioning...then all that is needed is pop the new transponder chip inside the old key. Or if he wanted a brand new remote, just drop the new transponder chip inside the key & a new battery...then initialize the key to his GM to get the FZV/DWA remote lock/unlock & arm/disarm function to work. This is the beauty of the old style remotes...the autonomous (loose) transponder allows for more flexibility if going outside the normal key-purchased-from-the-dealer.

[RobZR]

OP Since your key still starts the car the EWS works fine. The central locking remote in the key looks to have failed.

Since the central locking circuits are universal you can find a junkyard(ebay) key and try to program the Central locking to the car. If that works transplant the circuit board to your key and your done.

another option would be to send the offending key to Scott and have him repair it or upgrade it to a diamond key for $60.

https://www.bmwgm5.com/New_Key.htm

[951Dreams]

The problem the OP will have (in this case) is that he has a 1996 e38. He has the original old style remote (with no red LED in the key). His ignition/Ring Antenna is not set-up to charge the battery inside the new style remote key.

Oh, I didn't realize the new style didn't work with the old style induction. Thanks for the pointer Q, do you know what year it switched??

OP, I amend my suggestion. I'd contact either the guy Q suggested or the one I did. Those guys live and breath these BMW keys so they are really the best to talk to about it.


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[RHP]

951 and everyone else - THANK YOU!! great info. And the link to DaveTheBmwKeyGuy is here: https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...ey+fob+for+E38

A local oreilly parts place said they had a machine that tests key fob beams but it was a joke when I got there. Just did IR. No other parts store or locksmith could help.

Summary? My ews system is fine because my keys all work and my transponder is fine for the same reason. But my wireless hardware is shot and it’s not the batteries. It is either the circuit board bit or the haptic pad that connects the 3 buttons to the circuit board. By swapping a functioning circuit board and pad into my fob I ought to just be able to program it and be up and running. I’m going to try that rout first before contacting DaveTheBmwKeyGuy in Arkansas.

So - anyone the guts to an old style two 1220 battery key fob laying around the shack?

[Qsilver7]

Oh, I didn't realize the new style didn't work with the old style induction. Thanks for the pointer Q, do you know what year it switched??

I believe the switch occurred around the time EWS was upgraded from EWS II to EWS III which would be around the start of the 1997 model year (which was Sept/96 for the e38). The part database would probably list the exact month for your model...look up the ignition diagram then scroll down to the Ring Antenna...then look in the TO/FROM column to see what date is listed for the Ring Antenna for you BMW based on its VIN. If you do a generic search without a build date (for your BMW model) you may get a multiple listing which will show the to/from dates if there are different part nbrs for the same named item due to a change during the production. As you can see from the EWS chart below...the debut of the different EWS iterations wasn't the same for all the models of the 3/5/7 series models...so verify your build date with the to/from date in the part database.

EDIT:

AS you can see in the diagram and link to the part database below using a generic 750iL to pull up the diagram...item #7 (the Ring Antenna) has four different part nbrs depending on build date. The 4th listing starts with 9/96 thru end of production...which means that the Ring Antenna would create enough induction to charge the new style remote's battery. The earlier Ring Antennas weren't designed to charge the battery inside the remote as well as create induction for the EWS transponder so that it can communicate with it's system. If anyone knows if they can...please chime in and bring us up to date.

http://bmwfans.info/parts-catalog/E3...itch#1159449_3

[Timm]

The info I have is:

Key transmitter

A differentiation must be made between two basic versions of key-chain transmitter:
Up to 9/99, key-chain transmitter with replaceable battery (commercially available lithium battery up to9/96 two lithium batteries)
From 9/99, key-chain transmitter with permanently integrated, rechargeable battery. The rechargeablebattery is charged in the vehicle via the EWS loop antenna when inserted in the ignition lock andterminal R is switched on (ignition lock in position 1 or 2).

From:

https://www.meeknet.co.uk/E38/E38_Ra...ontrol_ZKE.pdf

[RHP]

Got Closure. Just received and programmed a new F10 fob cut for me by Dave Sarkin the BmwKeyGuy in Arkansas. Reach him here: dsark55@yahoo.com

[951Dreams]

Got Closure. Just received and programmed a new F10 fob cut for me by Dave Sarkin the BmwKeyGuy in Arkansas. Reach him here: dsark55@yahoo.com

Awesome, glad he was able to help you!

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