Member
I made a post yesterday on how I messed up my engine when I drove it as it was leaking coolant without realizing the car was overheating.
I added fresh coolant but the car overheats once its on for five minutes and there seems to be some water mixed with the oil when I check the dipstick. Someone mentioned that the damage is likely to be worst than just replacing the head gasket but I may have to resurface the head and it may be cracked as well.
I'm a novice so please bear with me.
1. Can someone explain the steps for me to assess the extent of the engine damage?
2. Would I be able to remove the head without taking the entire engine out of the car?
Thanks
Member
Probably the gasket is just a bit burnt so the air from inside goes in the cooling system, do you see the level raise/bubbles if revving? (I mean inside expansion tank/with cap removed if no expansion tank)
It's possible to change the head gasket with the block inside and still with clutch and everything on, did mine this way.
"Averroës, Kant, Socrates, Newton, Voltaire, could any of them have believed it possible that in the twentieth century the scourge of cities, the poisoner of lungs, the mass murderer and idol of millions would be a metal receptacle on wheels, and that people would actually prefer being crushed to death inside it during frantic weekend exoduses instead of staying, safe and sound, at home?"
Member
I don't think my car has a coolant expansion tank (at least it doesn't seem obvious to me).
Are you saying I should take the radiator cap off and rev the engine to see if the coolant level rises in the radiator? What would that indicate? Thanks.
Member
This is my engine bay [pic.1], '78 with no expansion tank, the small hose from top of the radiator near cap goes on the road, remove the cap as in pic.2 and, if you have the carb, you can accelerate rotating the brass thing that you can find on the back of the carb [pic.3], if the level raise too much and it let out air bubbles (you can try rev/idle/rev etc, not 6k rpm just a bit like 3/4) it means that the cooling system get air from somewhere, if it follow the engine temp and rpms the air get in fact through the head gasket, the coolant goes in pressure and the cap (if on obv) let the excessive pressure aka coolant out, if the damage to the hg is bigger not only air is gonna get in the coolant but vice versa the coolant is gonna enter into the cylinder, so you're going to see smoke from the exhaust and the level is gonna drop faster, anyway you need to change the hg and if unlucky the head is warped and you're gonna need to resurface it, don't be afraid, probably on an old engine you would have needed to do it soon anyway, take the occasion to check everything else like rings etc.
The best way to be sure is to perform a compression test, if one or more cyls are bad youre seeing it because low comp.
Last edited by johnharrison; 05-22-2018 at 02:44 PM.
"Averroës, Kant, Socrates, Newton, Voltaire, could any of them have believed it possible that in the twentieth century the scourge of cities, the poisoner of lungs, the mass murderer and idol of millions would be a metal receptacle on wheels, and that people would actually prefer being crushed to death inside it during frantic weekend exoduses instead of staying, safe and sound, at home?"
Member
Remove the radiator cap with the engine and coolant cold. Don't do it after the engine has warmed up or you will have a bad time. I think this test will indicate if combustion gases are leaking into the coolant system, thus causing the bubbles / level to change.
The best way to check the damage now is to remove the cylinder head. From there you can try to use a straight edge tool to make sure the head isn't warped. Also will let you check the condition of the head gasket.
Yes you can remove the cylinder head from the block without taking out the entire engine. Some tips:
- Remove the hood if you can. But make sure to mark around the hinges to make re-installation of the hood easier.
- Removing the hood will make working in the engine bay much easier.
- Look up a few guides like Haynes / Factory Blue Book / etc to see the process before you just start taking things apart. I'll add some links later.
- Disconnect the battery
- When disconnecting hoses or wires, wrap a piece of tape around the end and label it. Then take a picture. That will help when putting everything back together.
- Put similar hardware / parts in zip lock bags to keep track of where they go back.
- I'm sure more people will add their tips as well.
'81 E21 320i / '90 E30 325i / '̶9̶2̶ ̶E̶3̶4̶ ̶5̶2̶5̶i̶t (sold) / '15 Toyota XW30 / '̶̶8̶0̶ ̶E̶2̶1̶ ̶3̶2̶0̶i̶A̶ (sold)
Member
Originally Posted by amarino
Complete reply, may I only be redundant and add that this points are for approaching to changing the gasket yourself, imho if its the first time you do a repair on your own ask to an expert friend or something for backup, it's not a two man job but a bit of support will be appreciated, and also search a bit on the forum that I found some really useful threads.
"Averroës, Kant, Socrates, Newton, Voltaire, could any of them have believed it possible that in the twentieth century the scourge of cities, the poisoner of lungs, the mass murderer and idol of millions would be a metal receptacle on wheels, and that people would actually prefer being crushed to death inside it during frantic weekend exoduses instead of staying, safe and sound, at home?"
Member
Thank you johnharrison, I will try that later today.
- - - Updated - - -
Thanks for the clarification amarino
Member
I like to use a 'no-spill' funnel when checking for bubbles. Ie: a big wide funnel, filled about an inch, and a piece of spare hose used as a seal in the radiator neck. Just don't loose the seal inside the radiator!
They also sell 'combustion gas' test kits at the auto stores, I've never used one.
Last edited by epmedia; 05-22-2018 at 06:40 PM.
Tbd
Member
I personally wouldnt take the time to take apart an engine and remove the head without testing it for warpage and cracks (I wouldnt expect cracks but Id want it confirmed). It'd be a huge waste of time if you put on the gasket and it cant get a proper seal.
Get zipties and masking tape. Use the masking tape as a label and mark EVERY hose and connection. Even if you arent sure what it is, at least put a unique name to it. I took a picture of every connection and hose orientation, etc and created a photo album. Saved me heaps of time. At the end of the day, redoing a head gasket isnt the end of the world and is a good weekend project.
Last edited by jaredmac11; 05-22-2018 at 06:54 PM.
Member
I removed the head from one of my parts cars without taking off the hood. I don't recall the hood being all that much in the way. It was an '82 and I thought getting to all the bolts on that intake manifold was annoying and awkward, but the hood wasn't the problem. I seem to recall stuck, rusted exhaust manifold nuts and bolts being difficult, and getting the exhaust manifold unbolted from the exhaust pipe was bad. Put the engine at TDC compression stroke for cylinder #1 and park it in gear with the parking brake on and don't move it until the head is removed and fixed and put back on, so that way the crankshaft stays put until it is put back together. You will be removing the camshaft sprocket, so putting it back needs to be correct. Mark the orientation. that way the crankshaft alignment and the camshaft alignment go back to the same positions as before it was disassembled.
Member
The last few times I have changed the cylinder head, I did not remove the hood either, took out exhaust side bolts by double nut method, left the intake manifold on and lifted it straight off with other goodies removed, I have a spare cylinder head I got at pick n pull( 306-1) - tool kit members---~ $50-(~ $78 now)--complete-- and its good enough to drop in and go...,,,Cylinder head refresh is a good idea, however, I had a head gasket that leaked before and I used Barrs pellets,,sealed right up and ran it for over 1 year,,then said enough and got another cylinder head and sent to CHI--, 3 way valve grind, resurfaced , viton valve stem seals, pressure and vacuum tested for leaks,special heat paint( transfers heat to cold spot better) ect--one on there now--all good, I also sent in the upper timing chain cover so it could resurfaced to same height at Cylinder head---valve cover with gasket seals properly....
CHI- Cylinder Heads International
https://www.shop.headsonly.com/BMW-3...-4CYL-SOHC.htm
okie dokie
Randy
Last edited by 320iAman; 05-23-2018 at 09:58 AM.
Member
wow. that price seems like a surprisingly fair deal.
Member
Agree, removing the hood is not necessary if you keep the engine isnide, removing bumper kidneys etc is enough you can access everything from here.
Edit: found a couple of pics of mine, as you can see there is a lot of space and you can keep more or less everything connected to head in place
Last edited by johnharrison; 05-24-2018 at 07:48 AM.
"Averroës, Kant, Socrates, Newton, Voltaire, could any of them have believed it possible that in the twentieth century the scourge of cities, the poisoner of lungs, the mass murderer and idol of millions would be a metal receptacle on wheels, and that people would actually prefer being crushed to death inside it during frantic weekend exoduses instead of staying, safe and sound, at home?"
Member
Some pictures of my spare Cylinder Head.
DSCI0302.JPGDSCI0303.JPGDSCI0304.JPGDSCI0307.JPG
ID is 1268721, Worm Gear is left to right, Circa-81, 1.8i,,Rockers are stamped with numbers 1 to 8 in 1 to 8 positions.
Randy
Last edited by 320iAman; 05-24-2018 at 11:54 AM.
Member
Okay okay okay you don't need to take the hood off. Yes taking it off and get it back on and aligned can be a pain and you need a second set of hands. I just found it makes getting access easier and gives you more visibility. But to each their own.
IMG_20121010_165353.jpg
Also where else do you put everything when you're in a cramped garage?
IMG_20161125_115310.jpgIMG_20161125_130123.jpg
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Okay that I've never heard of before. What do you need to access that the bumper / kidneys are in the way of?
'81 E21 320i / '90 E30 325i / '̶9̶2̶ ̶E̶3̶4̶ ̶5̶2̶5̶i̶t (sold) / '15 Toyota XW30 / '̶̶8̶0̶ ̶E̶2̶1̶ ̶3̶2̶0̶i̶A̶ (sold)
Member
Removing the hood is optional,,,as too alignment, I found that by placing several head bolts in the head and for sure where dowel pins are holding in the head gasket on, alignment is very easy and right on the money.
Randy
Last edited by 320iAman; 05-24-2018 at 12:53 PM.
Member
Yeah I didn't intend to access the hg, even in the pictures they're in place, but after that I had to check water pump too and I had to remove everything, doing that in a row before starting imho is better, same as the hood, not necessary but lets you work easily and with a better light.Okay okay okay you don't need to take the hood off. Yes taking it off and get it back on and aligned can be a pain and you need a second set of hands. I just found it makes getting access easier and gives you more visibility. But to each their own.
IMG_20121010_165353.jpg
Also where else do you put everything when you're in a cramped garage?
IMG_20161125_115310.jpgIMG_20161125_130123.jpg
- - - Updated - - -
Okay that I've never heard of before. What do you need to access that the bumper / kidneys are in the way of?
"Averroës, Kant, Socrates, Newton, Voltaire, could any of them have believed it possible that in the twentieth century the scourge of cities, the poisoner of lungs, the mass murderer and idol of millions would be a metal receptacle on wheels, and that people would actually prefer being crushed to death inside it during frantic weekend exoduses instead of staying, safe and sound, at home?"
Member
Randy
Last edited by 320iAman; 05-24-2018 at 02:50 PM.
Member
I tried the first step as you guys suggested by seeing if the coolant level rises or if I see bubbles as the car revs. But before I even did that, the radiator looked to be empty again. I had to drive it for two minutes from the street and into my garage. I don't see evidence of a radiator leak.
Should I add coolant and proceed with seeing if the coolant level rises or if I see bubbles as the car revs or is the empty radiator a sign of something else? Thanks again.
Member
I think the car "drinking" its coolant is a sign that its leaking either into the oil or combustion chamber. You already mentioned seeing oil/water mix in the dipstick. Might want to check oil fill cap or take a few minutes and take off the valve cover.
Would probably be best to stop driving it and start looking into getting the head off to take a look.
'81 E21 320i / '90 E30 325i / '̶9̶2̶ ̶E̶3̶4̶ ̶5̶2̶5̶i̶t (sold) / '15 Toyota XW30 / '̶̶8̶0̶ ̶E̶2̶1̶ ̶3̶2̶0̶i̶A̶ (sold)
Member
I'd just use plain water not antifreeze while looking for the "leak." Fill it with water and start it up and see if the water pump is leaking. Or alternatively you can put in the water and pressure test with the engine off to see it it comes out the water pump. So if the water pump seal is not responsible for the coolant loss then it would be the head gasket.
Going to need to take the head off. And should install a new water pump while you're at it, even if it hasn't proven to be leaking.
Member
Indeed. don't want to hydro-lock and break something.
Don't even try starting the engine any more. After an engine sits with a leaky head/gasket - chances of hydro-lock are much higher.
Last edited by epmedia; 05-30-2018 at 10:15 PM.
Tbd
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