ZF5HP19 signature move + tko

[WBAD530i]

Yep, it started whining and howling one morning, drove it down the road and slowly lost any acceleration in gear. Fluid was pouring out under the torque converter. I'm too cheap to pay someone to fix it for me so I pulled it with just enough clearance under the car. Going to replace the oil pump assembly and torque converter as well as a driveshaft refresh, trans mounts, and motor mounts. Total Cost on parts = $800 and I still need to pick up some atf when rebuild is complete. 2003 525iT

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[djb2]

The least expensive oil pump is a used one from the boneyard.

There are over-sized bushings to replace the spun one, but they seem like a bad fix. Once the bushing spins, the load is carried by the oil pump gears, putting wear on them. And the oil pump housing would need to be machined pretty precisely to accurately align the replacement in the wallowed-out bore. Unless the shop is experienced, the machining work could cost more than a new replacement pump.

Aftermarket oil pumps are about $200 -- less than what a rebuilt torque converter will cost. It's fairly easy to install. Note that you'll have to remove the valve body to pull out the two white nylon coupling tubes. You'll probably break one, so do it before ordering parts.

Buy a top quality T-27 bit. Replacement fasteners are expensive.

[jp5Touring]

I would take a good look at the reverse drum while you have it out very common failure point.

[bimmer7410]

How the heck did you pull that transmission out by yourself, without a lift at that? I need these techniques going forward..

[djb2]

He has a MY2003 car. It doesn't have the reverse drum weakness.

[bimmer7410]

EDIT: I was mistaken. The transmission model is right in the thread title Thanks for the clarification

[WBAD530i]

LOL.

Its a ZF5hp19 automatic 5 speed trans. This monster is huge and weighs 100-120lb I think. I lowered it on my low pro floor jack and a piece of wood, then pushed it off the jack onto a old rug, tied some rope around the guibo and dragged that beast from the back of the car. I had just enough clearance around the diff to get the highest point of the housing out.

I have read about the drum failure, but at this point I am going to risk it and just replace the pump/TC. (110k on trans) I bought a brand new ZF one for $165 on ebay as theres no way in hell id use a junkyard pump thats just waiting to spin the bearing again. I did get a reman TC though. I would need to purchase a master rebuild kit ($150), clutch packs ($150), and a "upgraded" drum ($90). I already have to spend $200 on enough freakin ZF Lifeguard 5 ATF to put back into this thing. Trying to keep it right at $1k total spend including other supporting parts (mounts, csb, guibo, exhaust gaskets, etc.) If it ends up crapping out on me I will figure out a way.

I tore apart the trans last night and the only issue I had was a stripped bolt holding the pump on. Ordered another to replace after I hammered a Torx bit in it to get it out.

Way too much existing documentation out there on how to DIY this stuff. With that in mind I just can't justify letting someone else do it and not know exactly what was done. This is a first for me so its an awesome feat to claim.

Behold my super sanitary and dust free workspace.

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[WBAD530i]

He has a MY2003 car. It doesn't have the reverse drum weakness.

Not sure if this is true or not, but if it is then that's excellent to hear.

[djb2]

The transmission is a bit over 126 lbs *without* the torque converter.

Use Maxlife Full Synthetic ATF. It was under $20/gallon when I did my transmission in 2016.

And for anyone else doing this... buy a really excellent T-27 driver bit that won't twist. The $5-ish cost is less than a single ZF fastener.

[WBAD530i]

Can you use the maxlife stuff in a ZF transmission? I read you can only use normal ATF in the GM transmissions. If I can use dex VI from Amazon I'd much prefer to do that.

[bimmer7410]

Can you use the maxlife stuff in a ZF transmission? I read you can only use normal ATF in the GM transmissions. If I can use dex VI from Amazon I'd much prefer to do that.

Maxlife seems to work well based on my anecdotal evidence and research on the interwebs. I had a shudder and weird shift that was cleared up when doing a drain and replace with MaxLife atf a few months ago.

[WBAD530i]

Happy to report that the transmission rebuild was a success! I just finished it up tonight and test drove it about 5 miles. The car shifts and runs better than it did before. Its only a 2.5L but before the bearing was slightly slipping before completely stripping out. This made acceleration from a stop really sluggish. It is now back to life. Spent exactly $1k total on all the parts to rebuild it (pump, torque converter, some seals, etc. Also includes motor mounts, trans mounts, CSB, guibo, trans fluid, etc.)

I was able to remove the transmission solo and I was able to get it reinstalled solo as well without a trans jack. I just used a piece of wood and my 3 ton harbor freight low pro floor jack. I had to tie more rope to it and pull it back underneath the car. Then I had to tilt it on its side, hold it with one hand, and pull the jack and piece of wood under it. Then carefully let it down without letting it slip off the jack. It was a bit of a wrestling match to get it lined up and get the starter back in place, but with some persistence it was completed.

I did snap my exhaust studs on reinstall of exhaust so thats a bummer. Now it sounds like a 2.5L turd trying to be a V8. It also smells really really bad. Is that normal for the exhaust escaping right from the manifold exit?

Anyways, I feel good about it, huge success. Many of my family members and friends doubted my efforts. Now I just have to pull the exhaust again and get the old corroded studs out to replace with nuts/bolts.

[scubajim20]

Very impressive, I don't think I have it in me to try that.

[jp5Touring]

Agree Impressive, I thought about it then said F that and just wrote the check .

[WBAD530i]

Well...crap.

The transmission is now leaking again. Not as bad as when the pump seal popped out. This time I think maybe my drive plate is warped or the reman torque coverter I have is somehow not sitting flush and when it rotates its pushing against the seal and allowing fluid to escape. I have had to add 3 liters of fluid to the transmission TWICE now. That process is a pain in the rear to raise it up level and get it up to temp just to top it off and watch it all dribble out everywhere I drive/park at. After a couple days of driving it will start slipping and shifting hard like a normal trans does when low on fluid. Add the fluid and its just fine.

Anyways...Time to pull it again....

This also has me thinking...

I bought a reman torque converter (They mill down the shaft to clean up where a bearing seized and spun on it)
I also bought a brand new ZF pump (This comes with a new TC seal)

If the shaft on the TC has been milled down to smooth again and the same size original seal is used on the pump...How does it actually seal? Do I need a larger TC seal? Does this even exist?

[djb2]

I doubt that the input seal has failed. Even after I spun the bushing, my original seal appeared to be in serviceable condition. If it weren't such a major job to pull the transmission, I would have tried it just to find out.

The seal lip can handle a range of shaft diameters. But what it can't handle is a changing position and the resulting continuous flexing. That 'works' the seal, allowing fluid to leak past when spinning and eventually degrading the material. That can happen when the shaft is eccentric or bent. But in this case I'm guessing that the smaller diameter shaft is a loose fit in the input bushing and is bouncing from the gear pump action. That's why they sell oversize and machine-in-place bushings (and those two options usually go together): the bushing is pressed into place, and the compressed bushing is then reamed to match the undersized input shaft.

This is one of the cases where a Speedi-sleeve might save the part. These are cups of thin highly polished hard stainless steel. You tap them into place over the worn shaft and then break or cut off the cup bottom. They create a new sealing surface with a much better surface finish than you can reasonable create by machining a used part, and they can bump up the diameter to improve a loose bushing fit. They are a bit pricey ($20-ish) for what they are, but don't require any special tools like a hand reamer that can adjust to 45mm (MSC lists a 'value' one for $104, with a fixed sized production machine reamer going for $1600).

[WBAD530i]

I'm an idiot. My daughters bday party is tomorrow and this is our only transport right now so I slugged my way with low fluid and bought 3 more gallons today. Tonight I pulled the exhaust, the driveshaft, and started on the torque converter bolts through the access hole...

I left one of them completely loose. So the torque converter must have been spinning at a slight angle due to 2 out of 3 bolts to the drive plate were actually holding it flush. Pushing the seal just as you mentioned. I could just button it all back up at this point but I have a brand new seal ready to go. The new pump I bought came with one so this was left. May as well pull the trans again to inspect and report. I suspect it may be warped from friction on the TC like you also mentioned.

Now to do the damn thing and get this back together so we can not ruin the little ones special day, and I can have my peace of mind back with my e39.

[WBAD530i]

Got it out and the seal actually looks fine, but that's definitely where the leak was coming from. Any variation off center will result in the flexible part of the seal leaking. I guess that's really the only way to allow something to spin inside of it and get it to seal. I'll give it another look in the morning and decide to replace or leave it. Gonna call it a night and power through the reinstall first thing in the morning. Took about 4 hours to remove it including time to raise the car. I estimate around the same to get it back in there and buttoned up.

[computiNATEor]

Rest well! Best of luck!

[WBAD530i]

So I did manage to re-install the trans after inspecting the seal. We drove it about 30 minutes down the interstate and noticed white smoke billowing from the back of the car. This was the transmission fluid gushing out and burning on the hot exhaust. It eventually lost all fluid and all shifting stopped, and trans failsafe popped up. Tried to stop the car and start it again to make it the last 5 miles, but no go. It's dead. We had family come and pick us up to get to my daughters bday party so thankfully that wasnt ruined for her. My family also knows some peeps so I got a free tow to the closest family members house to store the car while I gather myself from setting it on fire completely.

I'm throwing in the towel on this slushbox turd, and am going to be visiting our local pick n pull to harvest a 5 speed and associated parts to swap my touring over.

[effduration]

A 1st time manual swap is a fair amount of work, although you sound quite capable. You sure you don't want to try a used auto transmission..preferably with warranty? I bet you could swap an auto transmission in a couple of hours now.

If you do go manual, be sure to get the differential and all clutch lines in addition to the usual trans, pedal box, driveshaft, shifter links, etc. Keep in mind that the 525i wagon used the upgraded manual trans (getrag 350?) that the 530i sedan had, not the manual trans that the 525i sedan used (g250). you might be able to get everything you need for the swap (possibly except driveshaft) from a wrecked 530i manual sedan.

Please keep us informed

[WBAD530i]

A 1st time manual swap is a fair amount of work, although you sound quite capable. You sure you don't want to try a used auto transmission..preferably with warranty? I bet you could swap an auto transmission in a couple of hours now.

If you do go manual, be sure to get the differential and all clutch lines in addition to the usual trans, pedal box, driveshaft, shifter links, etc. Keep in mind that the 525i wagon used the upgraded manual trans (getrag 350?) that the 530i sedan had, not the manual trans that the 525i sedan used (g250). you might be able to get everything you need for the swap (possibly except driveshaft) from a wrecked 530i manual sedan.

Please keep us informed

I honestly think I may have damaged or slightly bent the main shaft that runs through the transmission, or perhaps the reman torque converter I bought is out of round. I'm just so sick of wrestling this thing that I don't want to ever have to deal with a used one failing. I have always wanted to 5 speed swap it anyways so why not. The universe is forcing me into it because selling the touring as-is is not an option. I can more than likely sell the transmission as is and fully inform the new owner of my issues. This would likely recoup a large portion of the costs to buy the swap parts from a pick n pull.

It's a never ending learning experience. I just actually enjoy good results, and at the moment I'm not getting that.

[blackknight530i]

I know I've already talked to you by PM, but since you said you're going to pull from a 528i5 sedan, is there not a 530i5 sedan there? That would be a bit better as it would be a newer transmission and I think the diff might have had a shorter ratio than the 528i5. Both use the same 320z transmission though.

If all else fails, I still have my old 528i5 diff and driveshaft I pulled when I did my 3.0L/6 speed swap in my wagon. They're just sitting collecting dust. I know Charlotte is likely a bit of a trek, but I would let you have it for a pretty nice deal if you need it. Unfortunately, I already swapped the 320z transmission into my buddy's M54b25 e30 build we did, so I don't have that anymore.

I highly suggest getting a new clutch kit and flywheel, or at least the clutch kit. The 5-speed swap is a bit trickier to R&R than the auto on jack stands, so best make sure you do it right the first time.

Really sorry to hear that the auto rebuild didn't go as planned, but I'm all about saving the manuals.

[WBAD530i]

Thanks for the info via PM, much appreciated. And yes after looking into it a little more I think I would prefer to find a 530i5, but in middle tennessee that's a bit difficult to come by, especially one for parts unless it pops up in the pull a part lot. Anytime one pops up on craigslist in running condition there is always a ridiculous premium on it for the 5 speed. I would prefer to have the more robust ZF trans over the 250 Getrag. There must have been good reasoning for using that trans in the touring given its size. If the right car pops up I'll likely go ahead and put the 3.0 in, or atleast harvest the motor and do a rebuild while its on a stand.

I'll be doing more scouring through your threads to figure out the coding/wiring requirements when the mechanical parts are done. Right now I just need to hunt for the right donor, and trying to be as cheap as possible in the process since im already 1k down the drain on this slushbox.

[blackknight530i]

Thanks for the info via PM, much appreciated. And yes after looking into it a little more I think I would prefer to find a 530i5, but in middle tennessee that's a bit difficult to come by, especially one for parts unless it pops up in the pull a part lot. Anytime one pops up on craigslist in running condition there is always a ridiculous premium on it for the 5 speed. I would prefer to have the more robust ZF trans over the 250 Getrag. There must have been good reasoning for using that trans in the touring given its size. If the right car pops up I'll likely go ahead and put the 3.0 in, or atleast harvest the motor and do a rebuild while its on a stand.

I'll be doing more scouring through your threads to figure out the coding/wiring requirements when the mechanical parts are done. Right now I just need to hunt for the right donor, and trying to be as cheap as possible in the process since im already 1k down the drain on this slushbox.

If a 528i5 is all you can find for a good price, by all means, grab it. The trans didn't change at all, just more likely to be fresher. That said, the 320z is a very capable and reliable transmission and is the same used in the S54 powered Z3M and e36 M3.

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