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Thread: Possible new M3/4/5 owner looking for pre purchase help

  1. #1
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    Possible new M3/4/5 owner looking for pre purchase help

    Hey guys,

    I privately messaged a few of you looking for purchase advice. Been poking around the e36 forums here and saw some of your posts about what cars are worth. Looking for a M3/4/5. Plan to enjoy in nice weather (summers) and a few track days (HPDE). Currently found three I like but they are all different in different ways. Would like your opinion about best value I guess.

    All 1997 M3/4/5, none have accidents. Supposedly rust free per sellers. I haven't seen in person because all out of state. I live in Ohio.

    First car: Black on dove. Originally a Maryland. 102K miles. All original, no major mods. Chrome grills, yellow corners. Dealer owns it in St. Louis. No exterior mods. Records mostly from original owner who owned it most of its life including original receipt. Serviced mostly through BMW dealer. Looking through the service records he brought it in a few times because of what the current owner described as low coolant. Dealer replaced radiator, coolant level sensor, thermostat. Leak tested and passed. Starter replaced as well. New clutch kit from current dealer. Newer struts, tires, brakes. As far as I can tell no water pump ever replaced. Cooling hoses "look newer." This concerns me a bit. It does have heated power seats. Looks really clean. Seats in good shape, Exterior looks nice. Underbody pics look good. Has UUS trans mounts, turner front sway and links, stainless brake and clutch lines, new rear shock mounts, new flex disc. Asking 14,199. Told dealer that's kinda high. They have 13K into it. Would be willing to spend 12,500 I guess. This one is the most stock of the three I'm looking at.

    Second car: Black on Black. 118K miles. Virginia car. No rust again per owner. Did not see underbody. 3 owners. clean carfax. Serviced mostly at a BMW dealership. Current owner has only the carfax which does list service done, did have some cooling system updates. I tried calling the dealer to see if they could look up the services actually done, as there was a big one where some cooling system updates were done, but no water pump. Just radiator and thermostat. Car has good looking body, driver seat power, not heated, looks worn, but not bad. Headliner needs done, sagging. Has HR springs, eibach shocks, new tires and brakes. Changed grill to black grill and has clear corners. 3 owners. Asking 10,500.

    Third car: Probably the nicest of the bunch, tons of records well kept. 3 owners. clean carfax. White on dove. 150k miles. Previous owner daily drove it. Florida car it's whole life. New waterpump at 135K miles. Rest of cooling system replaced previously. valve cover gasket at 135k miles. Lots of other maintenance items all on a spreadsheet. Aftermarket exhaust, bilstein front struts, and rear shocks, aftermarket stereo, new interior and headliner. Seats look showroom new. No heated seats, but power. Black grilles, clear corners. Added LTW wing. Window tint. Brakes have 10k, tread on tires 90%. Paint "correction" done and clear coat resprayed earlier this year per seller. Nothing needs to be done per seller. Asking 9K.

    I like the maintenance stuff on the 3rd car but 150K miles is a bit more than I wanted to find. The first one is all original, very clean, lowest miles, but I think he's a bit high on price. Dealer hoping to make money. I might be able to get them down to what they have into it.


    Thoughts on the best of the three for my summer daily with some HPDE events (likely no more than 2).

    Thanks a ton.


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  2. #2
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    I’d stay away from the second. No matter which you choose it’ll need service. Don’t let miles fool you I brought mine into bmw last week and it’s just about to turn 200k miles. They couldn’t believe the condition it was in for the miles. I will say that I am meticulous when it comes to maintenance though. I’ve done suspension twice, cooling system 3 times, valve cover gasket twice countless other things in the 12 years I’ve owned it. It’s a car as much as a hobby to own these

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArcticM View Post
    I’d stay away from the second. No matter which you choose it’ll need service. Don’t let miles fool you I brought mine into bmw last week and it’s just about to turn 200k miles. They couldn’t believe the condition it was in for the miles. I will say that I am meticulous when it comes to maintenance though. I’ve done suspension twice, cooling system 3 times, valve cover gasket twice countless other things in the 12 years I’ve owned it. It’s a car as much as a hobby to own these
    We had a conversation about these via pm / offline. I think number three is the only one that won't need a lot of updating. And the first one likely needs the most, which will make it cost at least double what the third one will cost.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by blckstrm View Post
    We had a conversation about these via pm / offline. I think number three is the only one that won't need a lot of updating. And the first one likely needs the most, which will make it cost at least double what the third one will cost.
    Yeah thanks I opened it up to others to see what they thought. Thanks everyone for your thoughts.


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  5. #5
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    I would say go with number 3 as well....150k on these motors are nothing as long as maintenance is done
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  6. #6
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    Agreed. Mileage isn't really relevant for a car you're going to drive unless it's well over 200K or something. I'd place way more value in the inspection results, maintenance records, and so forth.
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  7. #7
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    Ok so some new stuff came up. Talked to the Florida M3 owner by phone. Previously was only using email. Told me it's a 5 speed swap. He's the 5th owner. Just bought it in February, now wants to sell. Intermittent check engine light not diagnosed yet. He had a mobile painting guy touch up some paint and then re did clear coat. Lots of overspray, says needs a wet sand and buff. Taking this one off the list.

    Virgina car spent some time by facetime. Looks good, but no records. Has a new front passenger fender due to parking lot mishap. Has the original fender still. Interior rough. No idea undercarriage. Has some winter use in the past. I'm just worried about rust on this one. Also recent work done by a "buddy" who has "owned BMW's."

    So now gonna pursue the slo car. Pretty much original and only 102K miles. Looks really clean. Thanks for the thoughts everyone! Great group here!

    Scott

  8. #8
    RRSperry's Avatar
    RRSperry is offline Senior Moment Member BMW E36 M3 Expert
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    Can't tell you anything without actually seeing the cars. And even then, all I can compare it to is mine, so they are going to fall short...lol...
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by RRSperry View Post
    Can't tell you anything without actually seeing the cars. And even then, all I can compare it to is mine, so they are going to fall short...lol...
    the humble brag is real... but you're right lol
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  10. #10
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    I was in similar situation few months back. You have to see the car to make better decision and prepare to do tons of leg works. I was up and down the pacific northwest every weekend for 6 months to look for the right car for the right price. The price range in my area is slightly higher than the rest of the country for a clean one so I was willing to travel out of state to look for one.

    I looked for less fewer owners, less miles, maintenance records, and a good 30 minutes phone call with the owner to start the screening process. An email is only good to find out the maintenance record and all of those info. To get a feel of the owner you have to talk or meet him personally. The more meticulous and pain in the butt the seller is the more I get more interested. Usually these sellers want premium for their products. All of these against the asking price gives you the starting point. ALL M3s will need maintenance, that's for sure, but I would rather start with the low miles one. A stock one doesn't mean that It hasn't been modified. A DIY/Enthusiast who works on his car is usually my preferred seller, finding a true one, not some shady mechanic is the hard part. Dealer maintained isn't always a good thing. I looked at one that was dealer maintained with a binder full of records that had mismatched rear shocks, torn RSM and rear sub frame that was about to fall off!

    Yes, I've wasted 2 PPIs before actually found the right car. I brought my car ramps (sometimes my Quick Jack if the seller allows it) to be able to look underneath the car and see it with my own eyes. This along with my scanner would tell you a lot about the car. A test drive is the last session I do. If the seller won't let me drive because I don't bring cash ( I understand it), I would ask him to drive the car for me. I would pick one that I felt was worth it then get it PPIed with the list of things I want them to check. Even then PPI doesn't tell you everything, they will miss, even if the shop is reputable. A good PPI should last 1.5-2 hours. I've averaged 1-5 to 2 hours looking at one car, so I expect the PPI guys do the same, but you are paying for it. I would get a $185 PPI for 2 hours vs a $99 PPI for 1 hour. Getting a used M3 is all about knowing how much work and money you are going to spend to be able to drive the car like it's supposed to.

    So back to your questions.

    The first one is on the range for the dealer price but a bit high for private party. At 102 miles, a lot of things will need to be replaced. You probably spent $4-5K to refresh everything, and that is a DIY. So, $11 is the most I would pay provided that there is no glaring issues but again this is private party, it might be hard to get it at this price from the dealer because their overhead and cost.

    The second one is a little tad too high but not bad for asking price. Cooling system isn't that expensive compared to say, suspension upgrade. You can get less than $1k on all out with aluminum Mishi rad and Stewart upgrade (again DIY). I feel that it is overkill for street use BUT you are buying for lifetime warranty too so that's not too bad. \

    The 3rd one is on range in term of miles and maintenance. It seems like the body condition is rougher than expected which I would walk away. A paint job isn't for DIY really unless you really know what you are doing.

    I have learned so much about this car in the past several months because I've seen a ton of them, from cherry condition to beat down almost run to the ground.


    Good luck and have fun.
    Last edited by Genes1s; 05-24-2018 at 11:20 AM.
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  11. #11
    MauiM3Mania's Avatar
    MauiM3Mania is offline Observer/Master Skeptic Moderator
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    When I decided to buy a E36 M3, it was a Tuesday afternoon and I was flying out of LAX on Thursday. I got on the internet as it was in January 2002 that evening and looked to see what was out there. Joined Bimmerforums that evening as well! The next morning I went to Irvine BMW and paid the asking price for a CPO M3 coupe. Shipped it out to Maui.

    None of this chasing cars, getting input from strangers, or other logical stuff. LOL I still own the car and probably will for some time.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by MauiM3Mania View Post
    None of this chasing cars, getting input from strangers, or other logical stuff. LOL I still own the car and probably will for some time.
    But you bought it in January 2002 when it was only 3 years old so not exactly an apples to apples comparison. If OP was looking for a 2015, I think he would do what you did - drive to the nearest BMW lot, test drive a few, negotiate a price and bring it home. It's an entirely different animal with a 21 year old BMW with over 100K miles on it.

    In the 8 years I've owned mine, I've gone through the suspension, did the clutch, headliner, new windshield, front end respray and a lot more than I can't remember currently. I have never found the oem parts to be outrageous and I've enjoyed doing the work myself. The bodywork will be your biggest expense. I talked to the shop local to me that does all the bodywork for the Turner cars and he gets $12K - $15K for a full paint job on an E36 M3. So, I would recommend you find one with an excellent body and you can slowly fix the rest when time and $ permits.

    The dealer car sounds like you're only option currently, but keep an eye on BAT - there's been a lot of E36 M3's on there lately and they always go cheap (imho).

  13. #13
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    Yeah bodywork is a nightmare. I've got a couple little dents/scratches on mine from idiots in parking lots over the years, and got quoted like $1000-1200 per side (one scratch is less than an inch and the other about 3 inches, on opposite sides). They need to rip out the interior covering the quarterpanel, bang out the dent from the inside, and then do the usual paintwork and blending. They aren't the kind of dents that can be pulled out via PDR or whatever. I passed on that and just filled in the scratches with touch-up as best I could.

    Point is, if you care a lot about cosmetics find the cleanest looking car you can find as long as all its mechanical issues are things you can reasonably fix.
    Last edited by TostitoBandito; 05-25-2018 at 01:34 PM.
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  14. #14
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    I don't think you need to grill and interview the previous owner for 30 mins as a prerequisite background check. Just do a few basic checks, there aren't that may critical areas on these cars to go wrong. I would recommend picking out multiple cars from around the same area so you can see them in person. Ads will never reveal as much as looking at the car yourself especially when it comes down to cosmetics/rust/hidden damage.

    Biggest things in my opinion are the rear shock towers tearing, torn up rear suspension bushings, and any head gasket/overheating issues or signs of those issues. Everything else can be fixed DIY fairly easily. A good head gasket/cooling system check is loosening the expansion tank while the car is dead cold and if it is under a huge amount of pressure, you have problems.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by TostitoBandito View Post
    Yeah bodywork is a nightmare. I've got a couple little dents/scratches on mine from idiots in parking lots over the years, and got quoted like $1000-1200 per side (one scratch is less than an inch and the other about 3 inches, on opposite sides). They need to rip out the interior covering the quarterpanel, bang out the dent from the inside, and then do the usual paintwork and blending. They aren't the kind of dents that can be pulled out via PDR or whatever. I passed on that and just filled in the scratches with touch-up as best I could.

    Point is, if you care a lot about cosmetics find the cleanest looking car you can find as long as all its mechanical issues are things you can reasonably fix.
    This is really good advice.

    It sounds terrible to write this, but I have around a dozen good dings / scratches on my car. I wish I could blame my scratches / dents on people I don't know, but I've got 4 kids who are all in (and unfortunately, on) the car pretty regularly. Until they stop adding new blemishes to the car, I'm just letting it go. I'm only going to bite that bullet once. And if it works out to add some metal E46 M3 flares when I fix the paint, so much the better.

    I do still wash, wax, and touch up scratches so I don't get any rust started, and it's not a total jalopy - it still looks nice for the most part. But man, body work is just a completely different beast. (I HAVE tried to fix a ding or two, and I've learned my lesson - just leave it alone, maybe put a spot of touch up paint on it if it chipped through to the metal).

    -Josh: 1998 S54 E36 M3/4/6 with most of the easy stuff and most of the hard stuff. At least twice. 271k miles. 1994 E32 740il with nothing but some MPars. 93k miles.

  16. #16
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    Update:

    Heading to Denver today. Picking up a 1997 black on black M3/4/5 from an enthusiast. Car lols near perfect. Lots of new parts. Almost 160k but well kept. Factory LTW wheels. Tons of maintenance records. Thanks for your help guys! Excellent paint and interior which was a must have. Passed on lower mile ones that needed work or had cosmetic issues like hoses in the seats, sagging headliner, paint overspray from crappy paint jobs, etc.

    Thanks for your help guys!




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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by schach23 View Post
    Update:

    Heading to Denver today. Picking up a 1997 black on black M3/4/5 from an enthusiast. Car lols near perfect. Lots of new parts. Almost 160k but well kept. Factory LTW wheels. Tons of maintenance records. Thanks for your help guys! Excellent paint and interior which was a must have. Passed on lower mile ones that needed work or had cosmetic issues like hoses in the seats, sagging headliner, paint overspray from crappy paint jobs, etc.

    Thanks for your help guys!




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    Looks great! Fly safe, grab a 4 pack of Monsters so you don't snooze off when it gets late, and have a great drive home!

    -Josh: 1998 S54 E36 M3/4/6 with most of the easy stuff and most of the hard stuff. At least twice. 271k miles. 1994 E32 740il with nothing but some MPars. 93k miles.

  18. #18
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    Nice looking car, congrats.
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