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Thread: Rear Suspension refresh kit?

  1. #1
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    Rear Suspension refresh kit?

    It's time to refresh all the bushings on my 1996 m3. I've done the struts/mounts, but now it's time to do all the bushings and rubber bits. Starting with the back end next month. Poking around on my favorite online vendors there doesn't seem to be a kit. Does anyone have a list of all the parts I need? Car is just a weekend car, but I have goals of doing a few trackdays. This is our 'nice' car so I want it to be quiet and comfortable. I'm anticipating a mix of OEM and Poly, weighing NVH, ease of installation and cost (I find some poly parts are 2 piece and thus way easier to install). Car is nearing 200k so I want to replace everything in there while I'm dropping the subframe. I've already done the RTAB's (went with the black Proflex... again for the ease of installation).

  2. #2
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    I just had my subframe bushings replaced along with a 3.46 diff...I went with OEM replacements from Turner and they firmed things up nicely, happy I didn't go with poly as our roads are mostly third worldly...
    Estoril/Modena '97 M3...sold for the second time.
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  3. #3
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    Rear Suspension refresh kit?

    I believe you should rethink your choice of Poly RTABs, there is an axis of rotation that these ‘block’ which can lead to documented ‘pocket’ failures.
    Stock with floating limiters is a better choice, IMO.

    https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...3326775551kt2/

    https://www.ecstuning.com/b-assemble...SABEgJqePD_BwE

    I’m sure other vendors have similar packages.
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    Last edited by bluptgm3; 05-19-2018 at 08:06 AM.

  4. #4
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    I just did this. Check out my thread for info on a lot of things you will probably run into:

    https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...n-amp-Steering

    There's not really a single kit if you want to mix poly and OEM. Here's what I got:

    Rear End:

    • Revshift 95A poly subframe and diff bushings (powerflex or any others with inner metal sleeves are also fine)
    • I ripped out the poly RTAB's that I had installed several years ago before I knew better, and went with OEM (Lemforder) plus Vorshlag limiters
    • Turner rear subframe reinforcement kit (sway bar tabs)
    • 4x new Lemforder rear outer ball joints - https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...46-33326775551
    • 2x new Lemforder inner upper control arm bushings - https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...em-33321092247
    • I had already replaced my lower control arms with adjustable ones (the blue Turner ones), which I'd also suggest if yours are stock. Otherwise, the inner bushings on those should be addressed.


    Front End:

    • Revshift 95A poly FCAB's
    • Turner front subframe reinforcement kit (motor mounts)
    • 2x new Lemforder front inner control arm ball joints - https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...r-31121126253l
    • 2x new Lemforder front outer control arm ball joints - https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...r-31121126254l
    • I did Vorshlag poly motor and trans mounts, but I'd suggest OEM rubber unless you're ok with a fair amount of additional engine noise and vibration
    • I also took the opportunity to drop the oil pan while everything was off, and put in a reinforced pump, pickup, and baffles from Achilles Motorsports
    • Also replaced my steering rack with an E46 ZHP unit while I was in there


    The stiffer 95A poly on the subframe/diff/FCAB didn't really add much NVH by itself. The only thing I noticed was a little bit of noise from the diff at certain speeds. The motor and trans mounts are what really change things NVH-wise if you go poly, so be aware of that.
    Last edited by TostitoBandito; 05-19-2018 at 11:44 AM.
    1999 M3/2/5 - Titanium Silver - Track/Weekend Toy


  5. #5
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    Nice list Tostito!!!

    If you decide to replace the FLCA ball joints, it is best to have access to 20 ton press

    https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...ement-with-E30




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  6. #6
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    I'd say it's mandatory to have a 20 ton press to do the FCA ball joints. The shop I initially took them to was unable to get them to budge with something less than that. The harbor freight 20 ton press is what we ended up using and it made short work of them.
    1999 M3/2/5 - Titanium Silver - Track/Weekend Toy


  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by TostitoBandito View Post

    4x new Lemforder rear outer ball joints - https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...46-33326775551
    • 2x new Lemforder inner upper control arm bushings - https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...em-33321092247
    • I had already replaced my lower control arms with adjustable ones (the blue Turner ones), which I'd also suggest if yours are stock. Otherwise, the inner bushings on those should be addressed.

    Awesome. Re' the last bullet about the lower control arms... I can't determine what bushings go there on the OEM LCA's... is that included in the 2+4 items above?

  8. #8
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    https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...m-33326770824l

    Those are the lower inner rear control arm bushings if you wish to replace them rather than getting aftermarket arms.
    1999 M3/2/5 - Titanium Silver - Track/Weekend Toy


  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by TostitoBandito View Post
    https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...m-33326770824l

    Those are the lower inner rear control arm bushings if you wish to replace them rather than getting aftermarket arms.
    …or replace with OEM Lower Control Arms w/bushing per installed.


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  10. #10
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    Got it... thanks! I have a press, so assuming the bushing presses right in I'll just go with the $10 part.

  11. #11
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    My $0.02...

    All bushings are super easy to press in with the right tools. This means a proper heavy duty c-clamp style ball joint press and/or hydraulic press. DIY Home Depot tools that people piece together with threaded rod, nuts and pipe nipples don't qualify as the right tools. They make the job harder than it needs to be. You have a press so you're good to go.

    Resist the temptation to use poly just for ease of installation. Personally, unless the car is destined for track-only use I'd stick with rubber bushings all around... especially RTABs (where I'd use rubber bushings + limiting spacers). Even rear subframe and diff mounts I'd keep rubber. In daily use any slight benefits of stiffer bushing material is negligible compared to the tradeoff in NVH - especially with street tires where you're not generating massive lateral grip.

    Stiff transmission mounts in particular are horrible for NVH.

  12. #12
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    Are the weld-in subframe reiforcement plates needed on an e36m? All the sites offer it but Turner seems to indicate that a 1996 m3 has them installed from the factory.

    And thanks for the plug on rubber NoLastName... I'm going to order lemforder everything. Cheaper and I want to keep this thing as OEM as possible.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by GetOuttaMyWay View Post
    Are the weld-in subframe reiforcement plates needed on an e36m? All the sites offer it but Turner seems to indicate that a 1996 m3 has them installed from the factory.

    And thanks for the plug on rubber NoLastName... I'm going to order lemforder everything. Cheaper and I want to keep this thing as OEM as possible.
    The weld-in plates that go on the trunk floor where the subframe mounts aren't needed and are already there. However, the reinforcements to the subframes themselves aren't there from the factory. They're cheap and if you have the subframes out it's sort of a no-brainer to weld them on or pay someone a few bucks to weld them for you. The plates on the rear subframe reinforce the attachment points where the rear sway bar clips on. The plates on the front subframe reinforce underneath the motor mounts. Both locations have shown to be prone to failure in high-stress situations.

    There's also the rear trailing arm pocket reinforcements, which require a welder to actually come to the car since it's on the chassis (you can just drop the subframes off at a shop). I ended up not doing these because mine were in good shape and it was going to be very expensive for me to hire someone to come and do them, but if it's easy for you to get these welded in yourself you should do them while everything is off.
    1999 M3/2/5 - Titanium Silver - Track/Weekend Toy


  14. #14
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    Rear Suspension refresh kit?

    Here is a discussion regarding an E46 RTA ‘pocket’ failure and the possible cause. OEM, Poly, Derlin, and “Rose Joints” all enter the discussion.
    E36 failures are discussed later in the thread. While the two chassis differ slightly in construction, the cause is most likely similar if not the same.
    http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=583566


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    Last edited by bluptgm3; 05-22-2018 at 02:56 PM.

  15. #15
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    That crash video is insane, and why I think this should be seriously considered on any full track car or anything you're going to run slicks on. For dual-use cars, it's debatable. If I was a welder I would've done it for sure, but I couldn't justify spending hundreds of dollars to hire someone to come and do it in my garage.

    At the very least you need to take a good look at them with a light while your rear suspension is off and look for any signs of cracking or damage. That's basically what I did.
    1999 M3/2/5 - Titanium Silver - Track/Weekend Toy


  16. #16
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    Tostito, how is the car before and after all that work?

  17. #17
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    It was fine before, I mean I had driven it on the track last summer. I had noticed that the suspension was certainly squirrely under braking at 100+ mph, which I attributed to worn ball joints and bushings. I also noticed while installing adjustable rear camber arms that the rear ball joints were super limp and wobbly. That, combined with a longstanding desire to drop the oil pan to do stuff in there, led me down the path. I figured just do it all at once and get it over with.

    After the work it's like a different car. I mean, I did so many things that it's difficult to point to any one thing. It's super tight and precise everywhere, and has much more aggressive and racey feel. Steering is heavy but responsive. Lots more wonderful engine sounds in the cabin. About as far as I'd like to take a car that I still daily on the street, which is exactly what I intended. As I said earlier though, most of the NVH I added is from the poly motor/trans mounts. If I went rubber there it would've been much closer to what it was before for NVH, even with the poly bushings elsewhere.
    Last edited by TostitoBandito; 05-22-2018 at 04:36 PM.
    1999 M3/2/5 - Titanium Silver - Track/Weekend Toy


  18. #18
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    I'm not so sure poly rtabs are a reason that rtab pockets fail, they failed in my 1999 M3 (2 bolt bosses seperated) and I indeed had the rtab rubber bushings with limiters for a long time on the car. I'm pretty positive it's just a weak spot and should eventually be renforced with one of the aftermarket laser cut plates. Keep this in mind, I just got a 95' 318is automatic chassis... guess what, Rtab pockets in PRISTINE condition (way less abuse on a grocery getter E36). So i renforced them and put in the softest poly for them, I'm 99% sure I'll have zero issues, I like the movement they have and they don't (constrict) axial movement because I could move it pretty easily holding the hub assembly going up down left and right. Take this with a grain of salt though, as I'm just an over qualified backyard dog.


    What ever option you do use, I'd tell anyone they are asking for it without the renforcement plate on the Rtab pocket if you're doing anything more than driving from work to home. That is one thing I'll stand buy.

    And to add to Tostittos knowledge, the rear weld-in subframe plates are only in 96+ cars, I had to weld them in my 95' plus I like the aftermarket option (solid plate) not contoured to the bushings.
    Last edited by Mklock; 05-24-2018 at 08:21 PM.

  19. #19
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    The pockets fail due to any combination of sustained damage/fatigue (rust helps a lot here) combined with loads high enough to cause the damage to get worse or for them to catastrophically fail. I don't think I've ever heard of them failing on the street. It would have to be really rusted out and falling apart to blow up during normal street driving. On the track though, go into a corner with high g loads and there is a fair amount of lateral force on the trailing arms, especially if you have really sticky tires or any aero/downforce of note.

    I've read accounts from various racing outfits with different recommendations on what to do to them. Some, Turner I think, said to reinforce by finishing the existing welds around the pocket and bolt holes (I don't think BMW welded the entire joint), while others suggested welding in the plates on top. I'll probably do mine at some point, when I get more serious on the track. It's something that can be done without dropping the whole rear suspension. You just need to detach the trailing arm, same as if you were replacing the RTAB's. I'll drive mine to a welder sometime and detach the arms for them and tell them exactly what to do. I just didn't want to pay a fortune for a mobile welder to come to me while my car was in a million pieces.
    Last edited by TostitoBandito; 05-25-2018 at 12:26 AM.
    1999 M3/2/5 - Titanium Silver - Track/Weekend Toy


  20. #20
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    Update- Wow, this is a huge project. Got the back end done and back together. One of my nutserts for the RTAB pockets was cracked pretty bad, that explains that crunching sound I was hearing! Had to wait for the AKG plates to come in, then weld them in. A few cool things I learned:

    1- I rented/borrowed a ball joint press from the auto parts store. Huge kit, but none of the fittings were the right size for the balljoints in the rear hub assembly. I tried a 36MM socket but it tore a boot (there goes $40...). I ended up gutting an old ball joint, then had a friend with a lathe mill out the ID a bit so it would go over the rubber boot. Perfect arbor. Despite having a shop press, and the rented c-clamp style press, the easiest thing to use was allthread and nuts.

    2- I was able to replace the bushings on the rear LCA. I ended up putting in a few tiny welds into the end so that it wouldn't deform and then pressed them. Was kind of a good welding warm-up project before I started welding on the reinforcement plates onto the car.

    Moved onto the front yesterday... got two of the ball joints out of the front LCA, two more to do today and hopefully I can get them back in. My press is 12ton, and it's having a hard time.

  21. #21
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    12 tons is borderline for those front ball joints, but if you got them out then I think you should be able to get the new ones in. I believe it usually takes more force to break the old ones free. My new ones pressed in pretty smoothly.

    For the rear ball joints I ended up using threaded rod and 1.5 inch copper pipe reducer/fitting along with some adapters from a big acme ball joint kit I borrowed from an auto parts store (for receivers). This got most of them, but eventually the rod began to bend and I resorted to getting them barely started using the rod and then hammering them out with a socket or a wheel bearing race or whatever I had that was the right size. The threaded rod thing worked ok for pressing them in, though I found on the last couple after the rod was hosed that I could actually hammer them all the way in without much trouble (not hammering on the joint, but the rim of the sleeve using a socket or pipe).
    1999 M3/2/5 - Titanium Silver - Track/Weekend Toy


  22. #22
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    Just got 'em all in... except I messed up one of the inner joints and tore the boot. And the waiting for a replacement begins. In retrospect I realized the plastic protective cover they ship with should be kept on it while you're pressing, apparently that's what its for :P

    I tried the copper pipe adapter for the rear ball joints but it bent like right away.

  23. #23
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    The covers are there for shipping/handling, and even if you can press them on with the covers, it shouldn't be necessary. You press the new ones in from underneath, so unless you screw up on the initial alignment then there's no way you should tear anything since nothing is touching the boots (unless your receiver under the arm is too small). Your adapter/socket or whatever should be pressing on/around the entire base of the new ball joint, and then it just presses down and into the bottom of the control arm as you crank down the press. The pipe or whatever you're using under the arm as a receiver is just there to hold the arm up and give the stud space to come through.
    1999 M3/2/5 - Titanium Silver - Track/Weekend Toy


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