Results 1 to 23 of 23

Thread: fuel hose materials

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Japan
    Posts
    54,654
    My Cars
    11/88 E32 750iL+98 E36M3

    fuel hose materials

    In case you have problems with your fuel hoses that after 1 year or so they get brittle and start to leak again, you most probably bought the wrong material of fuel hoses. BMW uses for the engine bay and hot spots FKM material, the usual aftermarket fuel hoses are cheaper and are made of NBR. The main difference is
    NBR hose up to 100C, FKM to 200C!
    http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/1269443
    http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/1269444

    FKM grades in the link below from Trelleborg, Denmark, which is one of the major players in seals, hoses etc
    Fluorocarbon Rubber (FKM)
    In automotive applications , FKM is known in particular for its very good resistance to fuel, oil and aggressive media as well as the excellent resistance to ozone, weathering and ageing. Depending on structure, fluorine content and used curing system FKM materials can differ with regards to their chemical resistance and cold-flexibility. The operating temperature of FKM ranges from -20°C/-4°F to 200°C/392°F, for a short period of time up to 230°C/446°F.

    Special FKM grades can be used down to -45°C/-49°F ( XLT grades of Trelleborg Sealing Solutions ).The material has:
    •Resistance to oil & grease
    •(problematic additives!)
    •Very good resistance to fuels
    •Excellent heat resistance
    •Excellent weather & ozone resistance
    •Good acid resistance

    Applications:
    Due to high chemical resistance and low swelling in fuels (especially when containing ethanol and methanol) FKM can typically be found in the complete fuel supply chain (fuel injectors, quick connectors, high pressure pumps, etc.). Additionally, gaskets in ECUs for gear boxes are also a field of application.

    https://www.tss.trelleborg.com/globa...sion-342452606


    NBR acrylonitrile-butadiene rubber
    NBR has good mechanical properties, low compression set, good low temperature behavior (mix-dependent to -50 ° C) and higher abrasion resistance than most other elastomers. NBR is highly resistant to hydraulic oils, mineral oils, petroleum products and oil in water emulsions, water glycols and animal and vegetable oils, gasoline, flame retardant oil in water emulsion (HFA liquid), water in oil emulsion (HFB liquid) and solution of Polymers in water (HFC liquid). Ozone and weathering resistance is considered poor. Temperature range: -50 to + 100 ° C. Applications: Standard material for oil- and fuel-resistant seals, scrapers and moldings for general applications without exposure to ozone or weathering. The most diverse compounds can also be processed with approvals (eg KTW, DVGW, etc.) or with fabric reinforcements.
    Shogun tricks and tips for the E32 series are HERE!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Sunny Cali,
    Posts
    8,730
    My Cars
    6.5 second 69 Camaro
    Great info, Thanks!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    10,384
    My Cars
    '93 850Ci- Daily Driver
    Only BMW Fuel Lines for my BMW's - It just does not pay to cheap out on this (plus they really aren't that expensive - especially when you have to replace the non-BMW stuff constantly).
    '93 850Ci - Mineralweiß Metallic

    2001 740iL - Titansilber
    ALPINA B7 -Alpinweiß III


    ...the price of cool ain't cheap!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    San Antonio
    Posts
    712
    My Cars
    850,76 2002 &530,84 633
    I used the Gates Barricade multi-layer fuel hose that is compatible with most fuels including 100% methanol: http://ww2.gates.com/europe/brochure...ation_id=19079

    Looks like Gates Submersible fuel hose is a FKM hose using a fluorocarbon outer casing: https://ww2.gates.com/europe/brochur...cation_id=5165

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Nashville, TN
    Posts
    79
    My Cars
    1995 BMW 840Ci
    I just finished restoring my fuel tank and had to research fuel lines. My generic conclusion is SAE J30R9 for non-submersion applications and SAE J30R10 for submersion - no manufacturer loyalty. With a special definition for the Gates hose. Specs as follows:

    Copied from SAE J30R9 Specification-
    Fuel Injection Hose Medium-Pressure Coupled and Uncoupled Synthetic Rubber Tube and Cover (SAE 30R9)
    Hose primarily intended to meet the demands of fuel injection systems. These would include, for example, electronic fuel
    metering (EFM), electronic fuel injection (EFI), throttle body injection (TBI), and the like. Other areas of utility are those
    applications requiring fuel permeation resistance exceeding 30R8 and ones which require fuel resistance greater than
    that obtainable with 30R6, 7, and 8. Exposure of this hose to gasoline or diesel fuel that contains high levels, greater than
    5% by volume, of oxygenates, i.e., ethanol, methanol, or MTBE may result in significantly higher permeation rates than
    realized with ASTM Fuel C. This hose may be supplied in either a coupled or uncoupled form, and is useful in the
    transportation of gasoline, ethanol extended gasoline, diesel fuel, lubrication oil, or the vapor present in either the fuel
    system or the crankcase of internal combustion engines in mobile, stationary, and marine applications. This hose has a
    maximum working pressure of 0.69 MPa (100 psi) up to and including 12.70 mm (1/2 in) ID. This hose may be furnished
    in long lengths, specific cut lengths, or as a part preformed to a specific configuration. This hose is suitable for use in
    normal operating temperatures of 34 to 135 °C (29 to 275 °F) and intermittent use at 150°C (302 °F).

    Copied from SAE J30R10 specification-
    In-Tank, Low-Pressure, Uncoupled Fuel Hoses (SAE 30R10)
    Hose intended primarily for use in fuel injection systems where the hose may be submerged in the fuel tank. The hose is
    capable of handling gasoline, alcohol-extended gasoline or diesel fuel used in mobile, stationary, and marine applications.
    This hose has a maximum working pressure of 0.69 MPa (100 psi) up to and including 12.7 mm ID. This hose may be
    furnished in long lengths, specific cut lengths, or as a part preformed to a specific configuration. This hose is suitable for
    use in normal operating temperatures of 34 to 100 °C and intermittent use at 125 °C


    The Gates non-submersed is interesting since they specify a significantly higher working pressure (225psi/1.5MPa) and slightly lower (257f/125c) working temperature and say they exceed J30R14. This is typically a specification for small engines. Gates has well exceeded the working pressures of that spec which is 50 psi. The T2 part of the Gates spec is for a working temperature of 125c which is above the base J30R14T1 spec (below).

    Copied from SAE J30R14 specification-
    Low Permeation, Low Pressure Coupled and Uncoupled Synthetic Rubber Tube and Cover Hose for Small Engines
    (SAE 30R14)
    Hose which may be supplied either coupled or uncoupled for use with gasoline, diesel fuel, lubrication oil, or the vapor
    present in either the fuel system or in the crankcase of internal combustion engines in small engine applications.
    Exposure of these hoses to gasoline or diesel fuel which contain high levels, greater than 5% by volume, of oxygenates,
    i.e., ethanol, methanol, or MTBE (methyl tertiary butyl ether), may result in significantly higher permeation rates than
    those listed for 30R14. This hose is for maximum working pressures of 0.34 MPa (50 psi) up to and including 9.53 mm
    (3/8 in) ID and for hose in excess of 25.40 mm (1 in), the working pressure is 0.11 MPa (16 psi). The hose may be
    furnished in long lengths, specific cut lengths, or as a part preformed to a specific configuration. This hose is suitable for
    use in temperatures up to 100 °C (212 °F) for 30R14 T1, 125 °C (257 °F) for 30R14 T2.

    My assumption is that since Gates uses a plastic inner liner on the non-submersion as opposed to FKM they have sacrificed a little on the upper temperature range 125c vs 135c in the R9 specification otherwise they would exceed the R9 specification. The plastic liner may also be the reason Gates calls out not meeting the kink resistance for 30R14T2. I do not know that this is correct - just my assumption.

    I used Continental Elite that meets J30R9. Nothing wrong with the Gates since I do not think the fuel line is placed anywhere that would exceed 257f/125c and some may appreciate the higher working pressure. Funny thing was that I learned all of this when I was searching to purchase the Gates and could not easily find it when I needed it.

    I am certain there are also testing differences to meet each spec but it would be a full time job to get to that detail. If I am wrong on any point please correct me. Hate if I were to spread bad info.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Japan
    Posts
    54,654
    My Cars
    11/88 E32 750iL+98 E36M3
    comment from the E32 forum copied here: I, too, replaced the fuel hoses on my E32 750 with aftermarket 8mm hose sourced from CRP. After only a few months, the hoses underneath the brake master cylinder (which are subject to heat from the exhaust manifold) had deteriorated and were leaking. I replaced them with Gates Barricade 5/16" fuel line, and later replaced all of the rest of the hoses with the same. All of the CRP hose exhibited cracking on the exterior and some was actively weeping fuel. A year later and the Barricade hoses I put in have not leaked and look brand new.

    From the Gates website: › Works with multiple fuels: approved for use with leaded and unleaded petrol, diesel,biodiesel up to B-100, E-10, E-15, E-85, 100% methanol, ethanol and gasohol fuels. › Best-in-class working pressure of 1.55 MPa (15.5 kg/cm²) and a temperature range of-40°C to 125°C continuous, up to 150°C intermittent.
    Shogun tricks and tips for the E32 series are HERE!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    Maitland, FL
    Posts
    2
    My Cars
    1988 BMW 325i

    Angry CRP fuel hose is terrible.

    Quote Originally Posted by shogun View Post
    comment from the E32 forum copied here: I, too, replaced the fuel hoses on my E32 750 with aftermarket 8mm hose sourced from CRP. After only a few months, the hoses underneath the brake master cylinder (which are subject to heat from the exhaust manifold) had deteriorated and were leaking. I replaced them with Gates Barricade 5/16" fuel line, and later replaced all of the rest of the hoses with the same. All of the CRP hose exhibited cracking on the exterior and some was actively weeping fuel. A year later and the Barricade hoses I put in have not leaked and look brand new.

    From the Gates website: › Works with multiple fuels: approved for use with leaded and unleaded petrol, diesel,biodiesel up to B-100, E-10, E-15, E-85, 100% methanol, ethanol and gasohol fuels. › Best-in-class working pressure of 1.55 MPa (15.5 kg/cm²) and a temperature range of-40°C to 125°C continuous, up to 150°C intermittent.


    I replaced my 8X13 fuel hose with CRP and it developed cracks all over in 1 year . It is terrible. It seams like no European alternative. I am going with Gates Barricade 5/16" as well.
    IMG_20200119_142938567.jpgIMG_20200119_142949036.jpgIMG_20200119_145604762.jpg
    Last edited by adrian0521; 01-20-2020 at 11:38 AM.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Santa Barbara
    Posts
    3,462
    My Cars
    91 Dinan860 & 91 850 6sp
    the Gates Barricade hose is all I use now. Been there, done that - that hose holds up.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    San Antonio
    Posts
    712
    My Cars
    850,76 2002 &530,84 633
    I replaced all of the fuel lines with the Gates Barricade brand also.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    5
    My Cars
    -91 850
    Does anyone know dimensions and length needed to replace all fuel hoses?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Iceland
    Posts
    4,675
    My Cars
    BMW 850
    After starting up the car from standing for 1.5 month I got a huge fuel leak behind the engine. Time to change the fuel lines although my mechanic did it 2 years ago. I am afraid he used some lame material fuel lines.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    3,193
    My Cars
    not enough
    So, playing devil's advocate.....gates barricade vs OEM BMW?

    It looks like BMW FKM material is a bit more resistant to temperature.
    CB42366 - 1991 850i 6-speed. Brilliantrot & Black Nappa Leather
    CD00144 - 1994 850CSi. Hellrot & Black Nappa Leather


    My other projects:
    Supercharged Tbirds, V8 Tbirds, V8 Mustang Convertible, Audi V8 Quattro & Audi S8

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Hampshire UK
    Posts
    8,867
    My Cars
    99 840ci Sport Indv
    Don't forget that OLD fuel will knacker the best of the fuel hose material - before it turns to varnish it turns into fuel-hose-eating-fluid.

    Shogun posted this yesterday:

    https://www.bp.com/content/dam/bp-co...icle-tanks.pdf

    A quote from it:

    Gum and Peroxide formation

    With long storage periods, especially in the presence of hot weather or engine heat thepetrol can oxidize to form peroxides. These compounds can attack rubber and metal,stripping away the liner on fuel lines or copper from fuel pumps and attacking rubberhoses. These normally take a few months to form in sufficient quantity to cause aproblem. This process is faster if Ultra Violet light can get to the petrol.
    Last edited by Timm; 02-14-2020 at 11:30 AM.
    Timm..2007 E64 650i Individual Sport..1999 E31 840ci Individual Sport..ex owner of 2000 E38 740..1999 E38 740i V8 M62..1998 E38 735i V8..1993 E32 730i V8..1988 E28 518i


    My BMW Repair YouTube Channel
    My Current 840ci Sport Individual
    My Current 650ci Sport Individual
    My E31 Repair and Information Website
    My E38 Repair and Information Website
    My E63/E64 Repair and Information Website

    Chase - Heroes to a generation

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Iceland
    Posts
    4,675
    My Cars
    BMW 850
    Quote Originally Posted by CaifanSC View Post
    So, playing devil's advocate.....gates barricade vs OEM BMW?

    It looks like BMW FKM material is a bit more resistant to temperature.
    So I should buy them from bmw?

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Santa Barbara
    Posts
    3,462
    My Cars
    91 Dinan860 & 91 850 6sp
    Quote Originally Posted by Fatandre View Post
    So I should buy them from bmw?
    If that's the conclusion you reach after several of us post that the Gates Barricade hose is way better... sure, call BMW.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    3,193
    My Cars
    not enough
    Quote Originally Posted by Timm View Post
    Don't forget that OLD fuel will knacker the best of the fuel hose material - before it turns to varnish it turns into fuel-hose-eating-fluid.

    Shogun posted this yesterday:

    https://www.bp.com/content/dam/bp-co...icle-tanks.pdf

    A quote from it:

    Gum and Peroxide formation

    With long storage periods, especially in the presence of hot weather or engine heat thepetrol can oxidize to form peroxides. These compounds can attack rubber and metal,stripping away the liner on fuel lines or copper from fuel pumps and attacking rubberhoses. These normally take a few months to form in sufficient quantity to cause aproblem. This process is faster if Ultra Violet light can get to the petrol.
    Just read the PDF. Very good read, Timm! Thanks for sharing.
    CB42366 - 1991 850i 6-speed. Brilliantrot & Black Nappa Leather
    CD00144 - 1994 850CSi. Hellrot & Black Nappa Leather


    My other projects:
    Supercharged Tbirds, V8 Tbirds, V8 Mustang Convertible, Audi V8 Quattro & Audi S8

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Iceland
    Posts
    4,675
    My Cars
    BMW 850
    I am looking at the Gates hoses and was wondering if SAE J30R7 would be good enough or what would be best to be bullet proof.
    I noticed there are couple of 8mm types

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    San Antonio
    Posts
    712
    My Cars
    850,76 2002 &530,84 633
    Quote Originally Posted by Fatandre View Post
    I am looking at the Gates hoses and was wondering if SAE J30R7 would be good enough or what would be best to be bullet proof.
    I noticed there are couple of 8mm types
    I read somewhere that the gates j30r7 has a high permeability rate for even low content ethanol gasoline. I use the gates barricade 5/16 hose throughout my car to replace all 8mm hose. I think a 15-ft roll was about $42.

    Gates 27348 Barricade MPI Fuel Line Hose

    Be sure to use some good quality stainless steel fuel injection hose clamps. These will not cut into the hose like the old standard worm gear type.
    Last edited by JDP530; 05-31-2020 at 10:02 AM.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Santa Barbara
    Posts
    3,462
    My Cars
    91 Dinan860 & 91 850 6sp
    IMO, nothing beats the green stripe Gates Barricade hose.
    Proper clamps are a must. Oetiker clamps, while sometimes a pain in the butt, are superior for all but the frequently accessed areas.

    Also, the J30R7 hose is not injection hose... don't do it.
    Last edited by cartoonz; 05-31-2020 at 06:04 PM.
    '91 Dinan 860 Stage III (new 6L engine)
    '91 Dinan 850 TT stage III (brand new engine) 21st Century Tech meets 18th Century Dinan...
    '91 850i 6sp (mint) (sold)
    '90 Dinan 750iL TT stage III (Guido - The Beast)
    '94 850 CSi The Detroit Auto Show car (restored to factory perfect) (sold)
    '96 850Ci, The George Carlin car
    ''73 3.0 csi, '08 535i, '03 X5 4.6is
    ...and a few other non BMW cars

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Iceland
    Posts
    4,675
    My Cars
    BMW 850
    The green hose? Does it have any number?

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Santa Barbara
    Posts
    3,462
    My Cars
    91 Dinan860 & 91 850 6sp
    Gates Barricade injection hose has a green stripe.
    '91 Dinan 860 Stage III (new 6L engine)
    '91 Dinan 850 TT stage III (brand new engine) 21st Century Tech meets 18th Century Dinan...
    '91 850i 6sp (mint) (sold)
    '90 Dinan 750iL TT stage III (Guido - The Beast)
    '94 850 CSi The Detroit Auto Show car (restored to factory perfect) (sold)
    '96 850Ci, The George Carlin car
    ''73 3.0 csi, '08 535i, '03 X5 4.6is
    ...and a few other non BMW cars

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Calgary, Canada
    Posts
    1,116
    My Cars
    '91 E31 850i,'05 E53 4.4
    Quote Originally Posted by JDP530 View Post
    I read somewhere that the gates j30r7 has a high permeability rate for even low content ethanol gasoline. I use the gates barricade 5/16 hose throughout my car to replace all 8mm hose. I think a 15-ft roll was about $42.

    Gates 27348 Barricade MPI Fuel Line Hose

    Be sure to use some good quality stainless steel fuel injection hose clamps. These will not cut into the hose like the old standard worm gear type.
    thanks for the Gates part #.
    I just had to replace a bunch of hose in the engine bay due to heat/age causing shrinking and slight cracking.
    I was able to score enough for free from my BMW mech who only uses what BMW uses, but in future I'll have a 15' roll for future replacments now.
    ebay was by FAR cheapest for me and the seller was actually in my Province too. so SUPER convenient.
    I swear, my cars are like a girlfriend.
    Sometimes its a rough ride, sometimes its smooth motorin'.
    Sometimes she doesnt like how i treat her and sometimes i dont like how she behaves.
    BUT at the end of the day, she loves it when I am inside her.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Location
    Tujunga, CA 91042
    Posts
    771
    My Cars
    850CI740Lsezd750L95sezd
    Recently sent an 8 owner to a BMW dealership for 8x13 fuel injector pressure rated fuel hose. He came back empty handed ???

    so .... availability will play an issue with what has been recommended above. On an M73 the Gates barracade won't work for the small piece between the two fuel injector rails (this piece has a larger ID, Inner Diameter). In most every other place 8mm ID fuel injector hose is the size.

Similar Threads

  1. fuel hose materials
    By shogun in forum 1988 - 1994 (E32)
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 04-07-2022, 11:31 AM
  2. New "OEM" 8 x 13 Fuel Hose that is now available
    By cfisher535is in forum 1978 - 1987 (E23)
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 05-14-2018, 08:00 PM
  3. ISO VA Bar Materials....
    By NoSoup4U in forum Middle Atlantic - US
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 01-06-2003, 09:26 AM
  4. HELP Depressurize Fuel Line? Cracked Hose
    By Rollen318i in forum General BMW Mechanical Help sponsored by RM European Auto Parts
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 10-04-2002, 09:17 AM
  5. check the hose connectors on your fuel filter!!!
    By M3Jokster in forum 1992 - 1999 M3 (E36)
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 07-31-2001, 02:29 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •