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Thread: MotorMouth93's 2003 540i/6 Quasi-Restoration Build Thread

  1. #101
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    Lookin good M2.93

    Too late for this but the one thing you really shouldadun is powdercoating those valve covers and possibly the timing covers to match. Makes a world of difference over long term in keeping engine bay looking clean and tidy, and never easier than when a motor is out and/or apart for a TC job.

    Lets talk about yer thermoswitch though.

    What is your fan-priority scheme for the puller fan? Do you intend it to be primary (before factory Aux kicks in) or secondary (backup to Aux at higher temps)?

    Bottom line I guess I'll say the temps you have selected are high for a primary, and, the fact that its a single-speed-switch makes it crappier for a primary, so... that selected setup is probably OK for secondary/backup values. Because the OEM Aux fan runs on PWM (varying speed to temp) it makes a MUCH better primary than the kind of primitive rig you have there (which granted is fine for a backup/high-load "kick in only if..." scenario).

    First of all, if do you keep that temp switch, I'd strongly recommend you flash your DME with Terraphantms tweaks for 88C thermostats. Its way better than running the Aux as a primary on the factory values - although that works OK, its more abrupt and you get more parking lot jet-engine mode events (and to clarify - I strongly recommend you DO make Aux the primary since your new fan is going to be a single-speed type setup).

    With his tweaks it will have the Aux coming in early (in the mid 60C's or so) and progressively and smoothly, and then the 88/80 values you picked would be OK for a pure backup scenario. Although honestly its still probably pretty high turn-on temp. If you don't turn the fan on until the radiator-returning coolant hits 88C, its likely you'll get a little temp spikes and bumps when it does. I mean as we all know 88C is still way lower than the motor runs factory so that's not dangerous for the motor per se, but if you want smoother temp management, then you want to ensure that the radiator-return coolant temp ALWAYS stays below the thermostat target temp so that the thermostat can properly regulate.

    Again if the new fan is to be secondary/backup then this isn't much of a big deal (and probably will never come on unless the Aux fails honestly), but on the other hand if your theory was the new fan would be primary (yuck, lots of loud parking lot / slow traffic fan roaring all the time...) then you definitely should go with a slightly lower switch value so the thermostat always has sub-88C coolant to work with.

    I like your cut shroud. I keep meaning to do the same. Since I"m fan deleted its absolutely schtupid that I haven't done something like that already. I scored a spare shroud recently so I think its time to get that done. And yeah, the factory mount system for the exp-tank is SOOO annoying the way the cross-over bleed tube has to be all clamped under the shroud while simultaneously installing the tank and the shroud itself... I'm thinking of hole-sawing a nice little port right over the right side nipple too so that I can undo the hose from that side without pulling the shroud up half way pain in the butthole. Or as you say, screw it and just make a new fabrication for the whole stupid system would be even better.
    2003 M3CicM6 TiAg
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    2008 Audi A3 2.0T DSG (the daily beater)
    2014 BMW X1 xDrive28i (wifemobile)

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    Last edited by MotorMouth93; 02-14-2020 at 05:26 PM.

  3. #103
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    Cool. If you DO use PWM controller then you can leave the factory Aux temp/duty settings as-is, as they are calibrated well for that. However Terra also does some tweaks to keep any errors from popping up because the DME sees temps much lower than it expects, so you still may want those.

    Couple problems with your other suggestion about using factory DME...:

    1. The OE grade factory Aux fan is fundamentally almost certainly a better quality electric fan, and better ducted etc. etc. than your aftermarket is, so what possibly ever would be the point of deleting factory Aux just to replace it with the other one? If you're a 1-fan kinda dude, just use the factory pusher and you'll be all good. Trust me it works fine. To have gone to all this trouble and then just DELETE factory Aux would be super-retarded, particularly when the factory Aux ain't in the way of nuthin' but puller fans are. . But if you want redundancy, well, that's a different story. Read on for the other issue...

    2. DME driver signal is a control-level signal, not driver-current. Can't remotely be plugged directly into a fan motor. So you'd need a PWM motor-driver circuit that takes a logic/control level signal input and then carries the heavy lifting. Thats not impossible but what is generally on the automotive market are either full-boat PWM fan controllers that use their own sensors and generate the full current PWM drive, or, non-PWM controllers (2-speed, 3-speed, ballast resistance based, etc.) So you could do it but you'd need to home brew or perhaps find some 'clever' non-typical-automotive solution, like to re-use some motor-driver component sold for robot builders and Arduino/RPi dorks etc. (which might very well work by the way). If you did that you could possibly split the signal off to one of those and drive both fans in parallel from the DME, but that's not nearly as elegant as having one kick in super low at low temps and then build up and at some point have the other one kick in and dual-fan it under heavy temp loads. In case you're wondering (and you probably are) the reason this is is because the OEM Aux fan has the motor driver circuit on-board so it internally takes the control/logic level PWM and switches a MOSFET or some chit in order to drive the motor. And that's also why you can't tap in to that - if the fan driver was a separate component you could tap into the other side of that... no can do tho'.

    EDIT: Just want to add, your primary plan is a much better than what I'm talking about here^^^. Either 1. tweak the existing tune to make Aux primary and leave yours as-is as the backup, or, 2. make yours PWM, and then leave DME trigger temps the same for Aux. Either of those is fairly easy and elegant AND QUIET AND SMOOTH. Option 3 is swap the temp-switch on yours for one thats more like 75/70, but that won't be nearly as nice. Option 4 of dicking around w' factory PWM + your fan... less elegant, lots more work.... no logical justification...

    Thanks for the warning on the shroud. Yeah I'm sure its glass-filled. Hang on...
    {goes downstairs to basement, crashing sounds, rattling around... pause... more crashes and rattling... sound of steps on steps coming back up...}

    Yeah M5 shroud at least (prob identical material) says "PA66 GF30" which = Nylon 6.6, 30% glass filled.
    Last edited by geargrinder; 12-21-2018 at 04:23 PM.
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  4. #104
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    Last edited by MotorMouth93; 02-14-2020 at 05:27 PM.

  5. #105
    JimLev's Avatar
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    Yes, puller fans work best.
    Why don't you just leave the aux fan as is and put a PWM circuit on your puller?
    Here's my circuit. Not shown is a relay that switches 12 volts to the circuit when the engine is started.
    The fan runs all the time the engine is running. I turn the base speed down a little in the winter and up a bit for the summer.
    This MOSFET is good for 20 amps. My fan is only pulling ~4 amps at 25% speed.


    PWM_Speed_Controller.JPG
    Last edited by JimLev; 12-25-2018 at 12:57 PM.

  6. #106
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    Yeah all good stuff from Jim above.

    MM the reason I said the factory pusher is better *if you only run one* is because IMO it’s going to be just a fundamental better fan unit, and , the flow/shroud is very well designed for flow across the radiator. The common aftermarket puller tight-to-radiator flat square back shroud can be proven to limit the area of cooling flow across the radiator. If your shroud and mount offer some backset from the radiator that’s a different story. The factory and some race aftermarket check-flaps are smart clever enhancements to shroud flow shaping too.
    2003 M3CicM6 TiAg
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  7. #107
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    FYI, I’ve had really good luck with the Derale PWM fan controller. Easy to adjust the temperature and it’s really high quality.

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    Last edited by MotorMouth93; 02-14-2020 at 05:27 PM.

  9. #109
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    MM - well I think you gonna find it's more than "slightly less noise". Depends on your fan model / blades etc to some degree. This V8 + chassis + body specifically needs some fan on pretty early to keep temps in check. And don't fall into trap some n00brz do of thinking "oh it'll all be cooler with the 88C...". The 88C actually shifts the temp to the coolant and radiator so in fact it needs fan to run MORE "early and often" than the stock hot-engine setup. That fan may very well be a REAL annoying jet-engine on-off in parking lots and slow traffic. The factory visco fan is "continuously variable" so it works like a PWM type and this is gonna be a huge difference.

    Re: quality etc. while I can agree to some extent, and certainly some of the Summit/JEGS/PoopBoyz/etc stuff sure is junky, I would say there are really good units out there. And as to "added complexity"... Oh please. On a compflicated car like this switch-vs-PWM-controller is hardly any major complexity change. The PWM just replaces the relay and a true sensor replaces the switch. Basically exact same wiring schematic but just a much nicer elegant solution.

    But all that said - honestly given the current sitch you have the luxury of just running what you've got already and seeing what's what.
    2003 M3CicM6 TiAg
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    2008 Audi A3 2.0T DSG (the daily beater)
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  10. #110
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    So if you don't want a PWM controller on the fan here is another option that is very reliable, and better for your cooling system that's using a fan that just switches on/off when the temp hits some high limit.
    Put a 100 watt resistor (mounted on metal) in parallel with the fan relay contacts. This will keep the fan running at a slow speed to keep the engine temp more even. The relay will still function to switch the fan to high speed if needed. The resistor value will depend on the speed and current the fan draws.
    Last edited by JimLev; 12-26-2018 at 12:54 PM.

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    Last edited by MotorMouth93; 02-14-2020 at 05:27 PM.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by MotorMouth93 View Post

    KTMP is going up to 95C or so before my fan kicks on so I will need to get a lower temperature fan switch, it's almost like you guys have done this before. It sits at a nice 90C when driving around which is really nice compared to the factory thermostat.

    You could do the resistor thing I wrote about in post 110.

  13. #113
    geargrinder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MotorMouth93 View Post
    it's almost like you guys have done this before.
    LOL. Yer a good man MM. Half the n00bderptards that swing in here would not want to ever recognize an "you tole me so" let alone be able to joke about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by JimLev View Post
    You could do the resistor thing I wrote about in post 110.
    True. Basically a home-brew of a 2-speed ballast resistor based fan setup where "low speed" is on all the time. That was a clever thought Jim.

    MM you could also try to use a fan-speed resistor from another car for now. Something like this Mini part:
    https://www.ebay.com/i/173278637804?chn=ps

    Grab one out of a junkyard for $5 or something, any older electric-fan car will have something like that although I know on my old Audi's they were hard to get to easily. Some multi-speed ones have several resistors... and/or you could daisy-chain 2 of them in a row to get a 'super low speed' effect.

    That won't completely solve the temp spiking I suspect but it'll go a long way.
    2003 M3CicM6 TiAg
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  14. #114
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    GG, that resistor in your link is like the ones the really old cars use to use for 2-3 speed cabin blower fans, they require airflow thru them to keep them from burning up.

    MM, if you did the resistor thing you'd need to connect the +12 volt wire that connects to your fan relay to a switched source that can handle the current.
    The power resistors I mentioned don't need airflow if mounted to some metal to dissipate the heat.
    This is a 2 pack, you can wire them in parallel or series to get different fan speeds.
    https://www.amazon.com/Cutequeen-Alu...ct_top?ie=UTF8

    A constant air flow (like the clutch fan provides) moves a lot of heat out from under the hood, makes the plastic last longer too.

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    Last edited by MotorMouth93; 02-14-2020 at 05:27 PM.

  16. #116
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    I forgot to add that I didn't draw in a negative temp coefficient thermistor across R6. I positioned it inside the shroud up near the top of the radiator.

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  18. #118
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    Really tidy work on the taillight stuff Mushmouth. Really nice looking stuff. Seal of approval.

    The "hot drill bit as plastic-melt-rivet masher" trick is a new one to me. Ha!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by MotorMouth93 View Post
    Also, I have a CEL from low coolant temp now. I need to look into DME coding to get rid of it.
    Get a fixed version from terraphantm - he's done binaries for facelift 540's with 88C compatible temp parameters, and, while your at it, will support an M5 cluster (oil temps, warm up lights) in case in future you ever want to do a cluster swap. He should have them in WinKFP compatible format so all you need to do is have the usual BMW Tools setup...
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  20. #120
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    Look for Mike's Easy BMW tools package. Order a cable like this one from eBay, and solder pins 7&8 together if you can't connect to anything but the DME.

    https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=879366
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  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by MotorMouth93 View Post
    One quick question to those more experienced: how concerned should I be by the VANOS chugging? the bank 2 VANOS is definitely making some noise on my car. I've heard some reports that it can happen even after VANOS seals are replaced and to not worry about it, and other people seem to think it's the end of the world. I don't have a problem doing the VANOS seals, at this point that job seems almost trivial, but if it's something I can ignore for a while I will as it's still a solid 3 day weekend worth of effort.

    I felt the car missing under load so I pulled the codes and found a P1353, intermittent cyl6 misfire with fuel cut. Swapped in a spare coil and it seems to be fixed, so I went ahead and ordered 8 new Bosch 00143 coils since my spares have ~130k miles on them. Two of mine had been replaced already so I suppose the others are on their way out as well.

    Also @terraphantm never responded, is he still active on this forum? If not, @geargrinder didn't you have a big thread discussing 88C thermostat DME tweaks? I feel like I came across it at one point few weeks ago but I can't find it anymore.
    If you have INPA (or other) look at both intake cams and see if their adv/retard is pretty much the same.

    Yes, Terra is still here, maybe not as much as some of us.

  24. #124
    geargrinder's Avatar
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    Terra is def around, I email with him not infrequently. He posts around here a lot actually, for a guy who doesnt own an E39! I sent him an email yesterday and he hasn't replied yet either so hes prob busy. He's in (or finishing or just finished?) med school so, that stuff makes him super busy sometimes. Not to mention that he's been getting a sidegig car related biz started with some other guys. I usually give it a week or something figuring he's been busy taking an exam for advanced brain transplantation or something before I send a tickler.
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