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Thread: MotorMouth93's 2003 540i/6 Quasi-Restoration Build Thread

  1. #26
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    Wow! That's VERY unusual for any M6x motor! You are absolutely sure I presume.
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    Last edited by MotorMouth93; 02-14-2020 at 05:22 PM.

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    Ouch. Sorry to hear that.
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    It might be the intake manifold gasket which can have the same symptoms as you're describing.

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    Last edited by MotorMouth93; 02-14-2020 at 05:22 PM.

  6. #31
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    After you pull the motor pull the heads off, would be nice to see what happened with the head gaskets.
    From what you said it was either the head gaskets or maybe a crack in the head.

  7. #32
    geargrinder's Avatar
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    ^^^^ agreed. This is real rare event.

    Bummer man. Sorry. But post up the gruesomes for us sickos to oogle when it's out. Good call BTW on swap instead of rebuild...
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  9. #34
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    +1
    The M62 is thought to be bulletproof!

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    Last edited by MotorMouth93; 02-14-2020 at 05:22 PM.

  11. #36
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    Rare events are often the result of several factors...

    First, I'd do a compression test just to make damn sure it's a head. Then you'll know which one to remove later.

    You said the top rows of the radiator have been swollen from pressure? Really? So you had, and might still have, a severe pressure problem? Worth considering. A blown head and/or gasket can allow too much air/pressure into the cooling system, but the stock cap should have let that escape. In short, the high pressure might be part of the problem, not just a result. I'd definitely get a new radiator, expansion tank and cap when you swap engines. (M5 radiator, since you live in TX?)

    These cars have a special way to fill up the radiator -- the expansion tank can be full while the radiator is low. You have to open the bleed screw as the car warms up and let it idle to remove air from the radiator. Now, with exhaust air flowing into the cooling system, that air will collect in the top half of the radiator as it blows coolant out of the tank. If you still have to drive the car, in a pinch, I'd remove the bleed screw to let that exhaust air out. You'll loose the top few inches of coolant from the radiator and the system won't pressurize, but at least the radiator will stay mostly full. Better than blowing out half the coolant. (Drive easily. Run the AC as little as possible. Shut it off at stop lights.)

    And now is the rime to consider what else to do now that you're swapping engines. Motor mounts? New CCV? Timing chain guides and OSV? New water pump and cooler thermostat (to help keep pressure low going forward). New clutch?

    My sympathy too. Beautiful car. Good luck!
    Last edited by R Shaffner; 10-17-2018 at 09:08 AM.

  12. #37
    geargrinder's Avatar
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    Yeah good point, why didn't the pressure cap blow... Something screwed up there!

    Theres almost no doubt that the PO really solidly overheated the thing if the HG is truly busted.

    They ALWAYS claim "oh I pulled right over"! But that can mean:
    1. I pulled right over as soon as I noticed it but I didn't actually notice it for 5 minutes.
    2. I "pulled right over" at the next exit which was 3 miles away and then my house was just another 2 miles so I figured hey it couldn't hurt that much to limp it home, right? That's still 'pulling right over' right? (my buddy and his poor 530i just a few months ago)
    3. My stupid kid / wife / brother-in-law / pool-boy / henchman was driving the car and did not pull over at all although maybe they claim they did who the hell knows what really happened, not me.
    4. I did not whatsoever pull right over at all and I know now that was probably stupid and in fact I knew the car had a HG problem when I sold it to you, so I very much don't want to admit it because it'll be painful to admit to you that I am a true azzwhole.

    Actually in all of those scenarios PO probably well knew about this and is massaging the truth.

    FWIW on the V8 at least I find the bleed screw to be virtually useless. I barely ever touch it. If the hoses are off then pour coolant/water in via the top hose as much as you can to 'pre-fill' before you start. Park the car on an incline or jack up / ramp the front. Run it for a while until the coolant expansion starts to get close to overflow. Pump the top rad hose by hand while that is happening, watching the coolant level and if it drops, top off. If you want to try the bleed screw when you put the cap on to let it really heat, then fine, but mostly I find it a waste of time. Run a couple full temp cycles w/ heat on, topping off each time, and, yer done.

    What THAT bleed (vs the actual air-bleed screws on I6's) is supposed to do I think is let steamy hot air/vapor out there so that when the engine cools down it will create a slight vacuum and suck coolant back into the air pockets but I find that to be hardly useful at all. If I do all the other stuff it fills up fine every time.

    /bleed-digression
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  13. #38
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    Another idea:
    Disconnect one coil pack at a time to see which cylinder is causing the issue. If necessary drive it with that pack disconnected.

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    Last edited by MotorMouth93; 02-14-2020 at 05:23 PM.

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    I was in a rush and not clear before. If you remove 1 coil pack lead at a time, while letting it idle and watching the open expansion tank, you might find that the bubbles/geyser diminish or stop with that cylinder not firing. That should narrow down your compression/leak down testing. Just a thought.

    Sorry if any other suggestions were elementary and unnecessary. Sounds like you know what you're doing.

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    Last edited by MotorMouth93; 02-14-2020 at 05:23 PM.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by MotorMouth93 View Post
    I appreciate the suggestion, it never crossed my mind to drive the car around on 7 cylinders, I might end up having to do that.
    What? If you're going to remove the timing cover and the intake, you're not that far away from pulling the head. Do the leak down test and see where you are.
    Last edited by alabbasi; 10-19-2018 at 10:31 AM.

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  19. #44
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    Sounds like good progress. I have a few questions:

    Did you try unplugging one coil pack at a time to see if that reduced the exhaust flow into the cooling system (bubbles and geysers out the open expansion tank)? Just curious.

    Every time I've removed a head after a blown gasket (probably 6-8 times), I could tell where it was blown. There were signs, little paths, of water, exhaust, or oil going from a cylinder to one of the passages, or to the outside of the engine. Those would be on the gasket, the head surface, the block surface, or some combination of the above. Can you see any of those signs, esp. near cylinder #4?

    If you can see the area where the gasket was blown, then you might have found your problem. Then it's a question of what caused it to blow (warped or loose head, bad gasket, overheating, etc.), and whether the current block/head will work.

    I have a story to share that might apply here: The first blown head I pulled many years ago was on an old Saab. There were two symptoms. I was loosing coolant into the exhaust (visible steam). And when I removed the expansion tank cap at idle (after the car was warmed up) I too saw exhaust bubbles come up in the tank. I figured it was the head gasket. But when I removed the head I saw no sign of where the gasket was blown, in the gasket or on a mating surface (no sign of coolant or exhaust going from a cylinder to a coolant port).

    After I replaced the head gasket I promptly had the same problems. I pulled the head again and used a dentist's mirror to look closely inside each of the exhaust ports. In one of them I found a small hole between the port and a coolant passage in the head. Apparently the flow went both ways -- coolant entered the exhaust port and was promptly turned to steam, and exhaust gasses were able to enter the depressurized cooling system. So I had to get a replacement head.

    Of course, that wouldn't explain the oil leak/burning in #4. So my money is on a warped head or blown gasket, especially since the rest of the engine looks so good. Sounds like all your work will pay off.
    Last edited by R Shaffner; 11-04-2018 at 07:21 AM.

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    Nothing like a good SAAB story....

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    Last edited by MotorMouth93; 02-14-2020 at 05:23 PM.

  22. #47
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    If the plug was torqued there is no way oil could get past it and into the cylinder.
    If there was oil in the plug well when you took the plug out it would then run down and soak the tip of the plug.
    There are 2 freeze plugs in that area, could be leaking due to corrosion??
    The local shop should have some answers for ya.

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    Sounds frustrating. Sorry.

    Of course our main goal here is to help you, but we also learn from one another and leave these collective thoughts/lessons for others to find later. Along those lines I have some thoughts/questions:

    We've wondered about overheating being a root cause. Could it have been the opposite -- freezing? I agree about checking the head and freeze plugs. It's hard to see how coolant could get near the plugs without going through a crack or freeze plug.

    And the swelling of the radiator near the top never made sense...UNLESS it was from freezing. (If you leave a bucket of water outside, the first place ice forms is on the top. It freezes from top down.) So where would a partial freeze cause problems? Along the top of the radiator, for sure, and perhaps at a head freeze plug.

    (Could be a double whammy -- an indirect result of overheating and not having antifreeze to add. How often do people use plain water in a pinch?)

    A leaking freeze plug would explain the coolant residue by the plug, but not the rest. Of course a cracked head could cause most of the other problems you've noticed.

    (About not seeing coolant in the oil: That can be hard to spot. It will tend to settle to the bottom and/or boil off, depending on how fast the flow of coolant into the crankcase is and how hot the engine gets relative to that flow. In short, it might not show on a dipstick or other places that are easy to spot.)

    Did you ever see tell-tale signs of a blown gasket, in the gasket or on a mating surface?

    And finally, the cylinder wall... You said you were sure the scoring wasn't there before. Really? Personally, I don't see how carbon residue from hand-cranking could cause that. I could see how a smear of black carbon could look like a bad score mark... Can you feel the scoring with your finger nail? How deep, and in how many places?
    Last edited by R Shaffner; 11-10-2018 at 10:37 AM. Reason: Typo

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by R Shaffner View Post
    About finally, the cylinder wall... You said you were sure the scoring wasn't there before. Really? Personally, I don't see how carbon residue from hand-cranking could cause that. I could see how a smear of black carbon could look like a bad score mark... Can you feel the scoring with your finger nail? How deep, and in how many places?
    Absolutely agree.

    I was just looking at a scored 2JZ the other day... guy was showing it to me and it was hard to see the scuffs until the light was just right. Get light at the right angle and all offasudden "OH YEAH..."
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