Head Gasket question

[DaveLyd]

My 16 year old sold was driving his E39 528iT on the freeway yesterday and called to say it was dead. Lost power. White smoke from the tailpipe. He said he didn't think the temp gauge was high, but when I turned the key 20 minutes after he'd pulled over, it still pegged to the red zone.

I'm comfortable enough with doing a head gasket, but this is the aluminum block M52TU motor, and it seems likely I'll need to do a TimeSert install too. It looks like Baum Tools sell a guide for doing this on the car. Has anyone had success with this? Does anyone have a drill guide that they rent out?

Thanks!

Dave

[effduration]

Well, do a compression test and make sure. I have done a successful head gasket on an M52TU engine in place and it’s not a day in the park.

Plan an on using timeserts. The jig you mentioned is fine. But I ended up buying timesert kit 1090 new on amazon and sold it on eBay for net loss of $80. Taping the block in clear packing tape to keep chips out of engine is a great tip when time-serting

You will also need the timing tools to re-time the double vanos - borrow, rent or buy them.

There are are good YouTube videos (50’s kid ) on head gasket and re-timing.

Obviously use new head bolts and tourque them to spec. Buy a good brand gasket - elring. There are two gaskets available depending on how much the machine shop takes off.

Do do not use sc0tchbrite pads to clean block surface. Use solvent and new razor blades held vertically.

Replace plastic heater pipes while while you have head and intake off. Oh, and I suggest you remove and install head with exhaust manifold installed and using a cherry picker engine hoist.

A lot of people suggest replacing engine instead of a head gasket which is less time and about the same $ after machine shop, parts and tooling costs - about half the time the head is too warped to be resurfaced. If I do it again, I will just replace engine if I can find a running M52TU parts car with good compression for $1000 or less.

Good luck

[DaveLyd]

Thanks for the reply. The engine was an absolute gem before this happened. 95k miles on it, and incredibly smooth. I was hoping the bottom end would be ok, and guessing that it would be better to fix this one as opposed to buying a higher mile alternative. Either way, I'll pull the head and see how things look. I've got my father-in-law's cherry picker at the moment - just used it at the weekend to pull the engine / trans out of my '72 MGB, so whether it's the head or the engine, it shouldn't be too bad. There is a 112k miler engine on eBay for $850, so maybe that's the way to go.

[geargrinder]

"Temp gauge wasn't high" my baby smooth buttocks. These cars scream at you when they overheat - lights, words, gauges... allkindacrap in yer face. I'm absolutely sure it was "uh yeah I'll just drive the rest of the way home and then turn it off..." Actually these cars scream at you if anything goes wrong so the "drove until it lost power, nothing warned me!" story is always bollocks for E39's. (not ripping your kid BTW, hey I totalled 2 cars in a year or two when I was a kid just being a complete knucklehead... just sayin'... )

Yeah there's another thread right now re: an M54B25 where he's looking to borrow/rent the exactly same tool and we're all telling him to swap a 3.0L in it.

This case? 52TU motors are cheaper... but also less chance of stumbling on a nice low miler. However.

The kid obv drove it until it stopped. Might not just be the headgasket. Or at least it might not be the incredibly-smooth you remember once the new head goes on... Might be worth exploring engine options.

[computiNATEor]

I still can't understand how people overheat these things so badly. There are gongs, lights, messages, etc. Smh.

A tip I tell everyone: Red warning lights are very bad news. They inform you of potentially dangerous and/or potentially expensive situations. Pull over ASAP and figure out what's going on. Yellow lights are less bad news, and you should have them checked as soon as possible, but they usually do not mean that something is catastrophically wrong.

Anywho, rant over.

I'd be suspect of that engine, especially if it "lost power." The M52TUB28s are pretty robust, but you can melt them.

[DaveLyd]

We pulled the head today. My suspicion is that the water pump was the root cause of the problem - there's some heavy white buildup all around the pump area, and some play in the shaft. Geargrinder - I'm fairly sure there was loud music, and not much attention being paid by the driver, but like you, I went through several cars in my first years - I figure this is just karma catching up.

With the head off, it doesn't look like it's warped, at least not badly. I'll get a 2' straight edge on Monday or Tuesday and be able to test more accurately.

IMG_1891.jpg
I does look like there's discoloration on cylinder 3, which was the wettest when I pulled the plugs to check the day after the overheating.
IMG_1894.jpg
What I'm most concerned about now is that it looks like there's some scoring on the walls of cylinder 3. Has anyone had experience with this? Is it time to pull the rest and have the block machined, or just scrap this motor and move on.
IMG_1887.jpg

I'll go and have a look at the M54B25 thread.

Thanks,

Dave

[jp5Touring]

Well, do a compression test and make sure. I have done a successful head gasket on an M52TU engine in place and it’s not a day in the park.

Plan an on using timeserts. The jig you mentioned is fine. But I ended up buying timesert kit 1090 new on amazon and sold it on eBay for net loss of $80. Taping the block in clear packing tape to keep chips out of engine is a great tip when time-serting

You will also need the timing tools to re-time the double vanos - borrow, rent or buy them.

There are are good YouTube videos (50’s kid ) on head gasket and re-timing.

Obviously use new head bolts and tourque them to spec. Buy a good brand gasket - elring. There are two gaskets available depending on how much the machine shop takes off.

Do do not use sc0tchbrite pads to clean block surface. Use solvent and new razor blades held vertically.

Replace plastic heater pipes while while you have head and intake off. Oh, and I suggest you remove and install head with exhaust manifold installed and using a cherry picker engine hoist.

A lot of people suggest replacing engine instead of a head gasket which is less time and about the same $ after machine shop, parts and tooling costs - about half the time the head is too warped to be resurfaced. If I do it again, I will just replace engine if I can find a running M52TU parts car with good compression for $1000 or less.

Good luck

Pretty good advice right their.I have also used the Timesert kit and would recommend it. I also would be concerned that he toasted the block on it.
Would consider a engine swap. Either way lot of work and not cheap. good luck with it.

[geargrinder]

Could you spot where the gasket blew through to the cooling jacket? Normally the bad cylinders will be all shiny steam cleaned and all the carbon cleaned off. From eyeball, the head doesn't look horrible (no obvious burn through spots) , but if it's all warped to hell then that doesn't matter. That scuff ain't good for sure. I'd be leaning boat anchor myself....

[effduration]

That scoring doesn't look good. I would get several opinions, but if it were me, the scoring might be the incentive to swap in a tested M54B30 from a running parts car. If you wanted to, you could then consider rebuilding the 2.5 liter afterwards, but with new rings, a cylinder hone and other parts and prep, that probably would not be economic.

[effduration]

I suppose you could just button it all up and see how it goes. It's possible that scoring was the result of significant piston expansion with the overheat. If you rotate the engine now (cold and lubricated) does it obviously scrape now?

The other thought is....With the head off, you are kind of half way to an engine removal anyway. I searched on another forum (not BMW) and found this advice for a similar situation.

".......I think I would pull the oil pan. Take the offending piston out and check the ring end gaps and see if they are to tight. If they are fine then put it back together and use it. If they are tight which may be why you have higher compression on that cylinder, then grind the rings to get the right end gap and put it back together.:wrench: some folks just assume all the cylinders are the same and don't check end gaps......"

Now pulling the pan in an e39 while the block is in the car requires lowering the subframe. That's doable, but with the engine out and on a stand, it all goes much quicker.

[DaveLyd]

The engine rotates fine - no obvious scraping. I took the head into one of the machine shops I've used several times before (used to own a shop and these guys always did good work). The owner said he's seen issues with heads being warped enough to cause rotation difficulties with camshafts. A quick measure showed that mine was ok, but when I showed him the picture of the cylinder wall, he suggested the replacement engine route too because he figured a set of pistons would be $800.

Unfortunately, the 112k miler on eBay is gone. Best price/mileage alternative I'm seeing now is a 157k for $835. Or a 122k unit for $1200 inc shipping with a video showing the compression test (https://www.ebay.com/itm/99-03-BMW-E...sAAOSwlStau6n5)

Still tempted to rebuild what was a good motor. There's a set of pistons for $175 on eBay. I just think it may be better to spend $1000 on having a known good (rebuilt, resealed) motor rather than a used one that I don't know anything about.

[geargrinder]

That scoring is not going to be good. It won't be fun when you button that motor back up again and find it eats oil like a 300k mile diesel. It really needs at least a small bore to clean that up. That block is Alusil too, so, you can't just regular-hone it. You need special tool and paste and somebody who knows what to do. Then add in the oversize pistons required, and, and....

Find a motor.

You must go beyond eBay for your engine shopping. A lot of the salvage/junkyard world isn't really on the internet. Call places. Ask around. There are loads of these motors floating around these days.

There are places like Bavarian Auto Recycling, Lone Star Imports in Houston that specialize in BMW, but an M54 is something that will be at a lot of plain-Jane junkyards too, so you should call your local / closest generic import joints for sure. There's gotta be a big import junkyard someplace around Salt Lake I'm sure. If you're super lucky you find a local yard with a motor in a car that was totalled but still runs, and you can hear it, but that's gonna be a lucky strike.

[effduration]

I am still in favor of a new engine in this case, but I believe OP has the M52TU engine - Alusil block with iron bore liners. It should take a hone, but not clear that it would seal as GG pointed out, even with new rings. I would love to see someone try and find out.

I have 3-4 M54 / M52TU engines laying around in pieces - making a table out of one of the blocks. I am in process of doing a piston ring job on another M54. After that, I hope to swap all M54B30 internals from a badly scored M54 block to an M52TU block which I believe is the same block. At the end, I hope to have two, rebuilt, sealed M54B30 engines with updated Mahle oil rings, ready to go - waiting for an X5 6sp or a cherry 530i with an overheat/ blown head gasket.

The E46 guys have swapped 3.0 liter internals to M54 2.5 liter and M52TU blocks with long term success.

[geargrinder]

My bad! Not payin tension to the deets!

I helped a M52TU28 block-under-M54B25-parts job recently. Works fine but there are some things that have to be tweaked, couple minor things that need to come from the 52TU IIRC. I didn't do the heavy wrenching, so it slips my mind what they were, but I'll find out if that's helpful, effer. HIt me w/ a PM if you want. The B25 DME and parts seem perfectly copacetic with the tiny bit of extra displacement from the 28 by the way.

[DaveLyd]

I've decided to follow advice and have ordered an engine from Specialized German in Rancho Cordova. $1200 inc. shipping, with about 95k on it. I've been in India for the last couple of weeks, and get home on Saturday, so I'll be tackling this next weekend. Thanks for all the help. I'll hopefully post a job done successfully update in a couple of weeks.

[computiNATEor]

Best of luck!

[DaveLyd]

Well, it's in. And running. Lessons learned: plan on spending double! By the time I bought gaskets for intake, valve cover, oil pan, rear main seal (and housing), upper & lower radiator hoses, water pipes under the intake, torque converter, TC seal, water pump, a couple of other pulleys, oil, filter, coolant, I'd spent almost as much as the engine cost. We took it out for a first drive at 2am, and all seemed fine.

One omission on the list was a new thermostat. There was one on the used engine, and I knew I should replace it, but forgot to pick one up with all the other parts at the local Advance Auto Parts (we have one in Salt Lake City that's right next to the WorldPAC warehouse, so you can buy WorldPAC from Advance and they just walk next door to pick it up). It's replaced now. Fortunately, 16 year old now knows how to watch the temp gauge, spotted the rising temp and called to ask what to do. I left him my E60 545i and nursed the e39 back home - or almost home. I had the heater blowing full hot, a scan tool connected to read coolant temperature, and would start the engine, get up to 40mph, and then shut it off and coast to the next light. I had a hot upper hose and cold lower hose, so was pretty confident that it was a stat. Stopped and picked (a kind of crappy) one up at O'Reilly Auto at 9:30pm, then stopped at my in-laws to install it to avoid the last 2 miles of hot driving to get home. Easy install, and overheating resolved.

Earlier in the day, one of the ignition coils failed - I'm guessing it didn't enjoy being overheated when the old engine was cooked, and even though it worked at first after the engine swap, decided to fail on the 2nd test drive. After replacing that, I took it for another short drive and the fans stopped blowing. A replacement FSU / Blower resistor took care of that. Interesting that Advance sell an aftermarket one for $140, but can also supply a Behr one from WorldPAC next door for $33.

So 3 unrelated fails in a day, but it seems like everything's good now. Fingers crossed. We're going to try a bit of a road trip tomorrow, and will be taking tools just in case.

Then onto putting the engine & trans back in the MGB that I started on right before the e39 overheated.

Thanks for all the advice and help from everyone.

[computiNATEor]

From experience, I only trust the Genuine BMW thermostats now.

[effduration]

Congrats - thanks for the follow-up. The seemingly cascading unrelated failures (coil, FSU, t-Stat) are a bit of a surprise, but that happens on an 18yr old car. Quite a satisfying replacement and you have an engine that should go another 100-150k without a sweat. How did you take engine out /in ? With the front off/on ? With or without transmission?

Also, why did you buy a new torque converter on a car with 95k miles that overheated? Was it acting up? That at had to be $500 of your added expense.

[DaveLyd]

I'd already pulled the head off, so removing the block was pretty straight forward. We unbolted the transmission, removed the radiator to give a bit more space, and lifted it out with the front hook and a head bolt. The hardest part was separating the torque converter - it took a lot of prying and wiggling, and finally the TC came out of the trans, rather than coming away from the flex plate. (Yes, the TC bolts were removed!) That was the main reason for replacing it - I just felt like it had been pried and banged around a bit, and didn't want a $150 part (recon from a local torque converter shop) to be the cause of pulling things apart again. I replaced the TC seal as well.

Putting the long block in was remarkably easy. The chain was bolted to the front hook and to the hole next to the starter, and it slid in without any drama. I had a transmission jack under the trans to raise it a little, but I'm not sure how much of a difference that made. We got the engine close enough to put a couple of bellhousing bolts in, and I had the passenger side mount still bolted to the block, so wiggled the engine while it was on the chain to get the mount onto the bolt, and then bolted the drivers side mount in before removing the chain. Then spent a while cleaning the throttle body and idle control valve and figuring out where to connect everything on the intake.

Speaking of figuring out where to connect stuff - my cousin bought an e39 ('97 528i) a while back that had been sitting for a couple of years and blew a head gasket on the 11 mile drive back to his house. He had a local wrecking yard replace the engine, and then brought it to me to diagnose why it was running like crap and throwing codes all over the place. There was a missing secondary air vacuum solenoid causing some of the codes, but the main issue was that they had plugged the front O2 sensors in backwards (bank 1 / bank 2 sensors plugged into bank 2 / bank 1 connectors on the harness). That took about 5 minutes to diagnose - I'd seen it before (and spent a lot longer diagnosing it) when a local transmission shop brought a Jaguar XJ-S to the shop I used to own with P0170/P0173 - Rich bank 1 / Lean bank 2.

We just got back this afternoon from a 3 day 1,000 mile drive to Island Park, ID & Yellowstone (helping with a High Adventure camp with the local scouts) and it ran beautifully. Averaged 26.7 mpg loaded up and cruising at 83mph on the freeway. We did have one more failure - the drivers door glass came out of the retainers - but we had tools and fixed it in 20 minutes while the boys were grilling hamburgers. The new engine seems every bit as smooth as the old one, although perhaps a little down on power. I'll run an injector cleaner to make sure everything's clear.

[bulldogdave]

I went through this with my '04 325ci. I sympathize with the kid. My overheat showed up in heavy noisy traffic, top down, afternoon sun in my face, could barely see the speedo, let alone see or hear warnings. Happened because I forgot to reconnect electric fan after doing some other things--Found out the hard way that the clutch on the main engine fan was dead. Everything seemed fine afterward but one of the plastic coolant pipes under the intake manifold had failed. It didn't leak at all in the garage but leaked badly under pressure, which led to more overheating and blown head gasket.
Head gasket replacement including parts, extra tools, head resurfacing and time cost about the same as I would guess for changing out the engine but I had confidence in my block and I avoided the heavy lifting that comes with pulling the engine. I agree with the comments from the other folks; here are a few more lessons learned:
--Check, double check and don't let anyone distract you. Missing that plug on the electric fan is my worst mistake in 50+ years of DIY auto maintenance.
--Use only genuine BMW head bolts. All aftermarket gaskets and parts were excellent except the head bolts (same brand as the other stuff), which were warped and horribly substandard compared to the genuine part. Trying to get satisfaction on that is the only problem I've ever had dealing with the funny bird people in California. I finally bought the head bolts from my local dealer.
--Don't even think about trying this without a Bentley manual or equivalent.
--If you remove the cam shafts, see the German Auto Solutions web site for their instructions--they work like a charm and are better than other instruction sheets I have seen. To turn the camshaft, you'll need a thin 24mm wrench( Park bicycle tools or check hardware stores for a 6" extra wide mouth adjustable wrench).
--I agree with the comments about using thread kits for the head bolts. Overheating can soften the block.
--I used a $150 VANOS alignment kit from Amazon. It worked well, covered M52 and M54 engines and reviews on cheaper kits were not so good. main
--Pressure test the cooling system after you think everything is OK. I found a split coolant reservoir that way.
Overall, I'm glad I did this the way I did even if it was harder than I expected--much harder than replacing the head on a '56 MB 300SL, which I did in an earlier life.