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Thread: Puff's "What's A Turbo?" '95 E34 Build Thread

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by 328iFun View Post
    I guess you really have 3 options (and I have never seen a 2.5" intake side piping on these cars, or has somewhere here done it?)

    1. Try to find a 2.5" to whatever size the m50 TB is INTAKE BOOT (that also has a port on it for the IACV)... I've never seen one
    2. Go to 2.5" out of the IC and use a coupler to 3" and use max psi or whatever boot you want - that normally works/people use
    3. Get a 2.5" to 3" silicone elbow off the IC and run 3" up to the intake

    If you can find a 2.5" boot with a port, great. If not, it'd be cheaper to the buy the tube than to jerry rig a boot or something up. But really anything could be done
    I appreciate the detailed response! I'd never really figured out that people were typically using the second method, but that makes a whole lot more sense. I've got a maxPSI boot coming tomorrow actually, so I'm glad you explained it for me!

  2. #52
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    Cool

    No prob, 2.5" to the TB would look weird too.

    You still have a lot more ahead of you

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by 328iFun View Post
    No prob, 2.5" to the TB would look weird too.

    You still have a lot more ahead of you
    But I have so many parts :-( WHEN DOES IT END

    Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
    '95 E34 525i, M50B32 (S52 Crank, K1 Rods, JE 9.0:1 Pistons, S52 Cams, Cutring, Achilles Oil Pump Shaft & Sprocket), GTW3684R 0.82A/R, ZF320

  4. #54
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    I had 2.5” intake pipes on my last setup. I can send you the couplers if you want them. The throttle body I think is about 2.75”. I have a 2.5 to 2.75” elbow here somewhere that fits the throttle body


    86 325es, 2.8L m50, S476sxe, ProEFI 128 ecu, e85, solid rear axle, TH400 trans, 28x10.5w slicks, zip ties, popsicle sticks, tape
    best time 9.06 @ 151.8 mph, best 60 foot 1.30

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by someguy2800 View Post
    I had 2.5” intake pipes on my last setup. I can send you the couplers if you want them. The throttle body I think is about 2.75”. I have a 2.5 to 2.75” elbow here somewhere that fits the throttle body
    Couplers would be cool! In regards to the throttle body, I ordered the maxPSI 3" boot that everyone seems to be using, so I'll probably just buy a reducer to bring that down to 2.5" before it hits the intercooler.

    Does making changes to the diameter of the piping make any large differences in the performance of the system?

    Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
    '95 E34 525i, M50B32 (S52 Crank, K1 Rods, JE 9.0:1 Pistons, S52 Cams, Cutring, Achilles Oil Pump Shaft & Sprocket), GTW3684R 0.82A/R, ZF320

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by CallMePuff View Post
    Couplers would be cool! In regards to the throttle body, I ordered the maxPSI 3" boot that everyone seems to be using, so I'll probably just buy a reducer to bring that down to 2.5" before it hits the intercooler.

    Does making changes to the diameter of the piping make any large differences in the performance of the system?

    Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
    Most common setup is 2.5 hotside to 3" coldside. The 2.5" hotside is good since it matches most turbo compressor outlets with 2.5", doesn't create turbulent air flow since piping size remains unchanged, and creates good velocity going to restrictive FMIC. 3" coldside is good since you can force as much air into throttle body. I think the throttle body is around 2.5" so I doubt going to a 2.5" coldside would have major effects....

    That being said every setup I've seen in person has had 3" coldside piping. Major differences occur on the hotside with 2.5" vs 3".

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by CallMePuff View Post
    Couplers would be cool! In regards to the throttle body, I ordered the maxPSI 3" boot that everyone seems to be using, so I'll probably just buy a reducer to bring that down to 2.5" before it hits the intercooler.

    Does making changes to the diameter of the piping make any large differences in the performance of the system?

    Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
    Not enough to care about. I have a 3"-2.5" reducer, a 2.5 straight, and 2 2.5" 90's if you want them.


    86 325es, 2.8L m50, S476sxe, ProEFI 128 ecu, e85, solid rear axle, TH400 trans, 28x10.5w slicks, zip ties, popsicle sticks, tape
    best time 9.06 @ 151.8 mph, best 60 foot 1.30

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by someguy2800 View Post
    Not enough to care about. I have a 3"-2.5" reducer, a 2.5 straight, and 2 2.5" 90's if you want them.
    Yes that would be sweeeeeeet. I'll DM you

    Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
    '95 E34 525i, M50B32 (S52 Crank, K1 Rods, JE 9.0:1 Pistons, S52 Cams, Cutring, Achilles Oil Pump Shaft & Sprocket), GTW3684R 0.82A/R, ZF320

  9. #59
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    So my guy that's building the motor said that VAC ran out of the .120 HG kits and built me a .089 kit instead. Is this amount of spacing going to be enough to get to my power goal?

    Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
    '95 E34 525i, M50B32 (S52 Crank, K1 Rods, JE 9.0:1 Pistons, S52 Cams, Cutring, Achilles Oil Pump Shaft & Sprocket), GTW3684R 0.82A/R, ZF320

  10. #60
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    Somebody just hooked you up man!

    Are you going with an MLS? Last I heard no really uses those anymore. Any particular reason why your going mls?

    And when you say build are you talking about aftermarket low comp pistons/rods, etc... or stock a rebuild?

    Sorry too lazy to read backwards
    Last edited by 328iFun; 07-27-2018 at 07:31 PM.

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by 328iFun View Post
    Somebody just hooked you up man!

    Are you going with an MLS? Last I heard no really uses those anymore. Any particular reason why your going mls?

    And when you say build are you talking about aftermarket low comp pistons/rods, etc... or stock a rebuild?

    Sorry too lazy to read backwards
    To be completely honest, my engine guy just sort of bought it. From what I've heard, don't MLS work as long as they're installed correctly?

    Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
    '95 E34 525i, M50B32 (S52 Crank, K1 Rods, JE 9.0:1 Pistons, S52 Cams, Cutring, Achilles Oil Pump Shaft & Sprocket), GTW3684R 0.82A/R, ZF320

  12. #62
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    Well yeah,

    but I'm assuming that its a stock engine and that's why it needs the mls spacing. If it had low comp pistons then it should just use a cut ring (depending on compression) why I was asking.

    but in most cases with stock compression we use a cutring gasket + copper spacer / arp studs = fun (328ifun)

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by 328iFun View Post
    Well yeah,

    but I'm assuming that its a stock engine and that's why it needs the mls spacing. If it had low comp pistons then it should just use a cut ring (depending on compression) why I was asking.

    but in most cases with stock compression we use a cutring gasket + copper spacer / arp studs = fun (328ifun)
    Oh my bad I totally missed the second portion of your reply. No, it's stock motor with ARP studs, HG, and a fully REbuilt head.

    Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
    '95 E34 525i, M50B32 (S52 Crank, K1 Rods, JE 9.0:1 Pistons, S52 Cams, Cutring, Achilles Oil Pump Shaft & Sprocket), GTW3684R 0.82A/R, ZF320

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by CallMePuff View Post
    Oh my bad I totally missed the second portion of your reply. No, it's stock motor with ARP studs, HG, and a fully REbuilt head.

    Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
    In that case, I would rethink and go with the cutring / spacer.

    The guys here strayed me away from the MLS when I started my build and there are reasons why

  15. #65
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    Sit around the campfire and I’ll tell you about the old days.

    About 10-12 years ago before the cut ring gaskets and arp 2000 head studs were available head gaskets in these things were a real problem. The arp studs they used to sell were undercut really bad and were basically no better than stock bolts. S52’s were really hard to keep a head gasket in them in high hp builds. PPF in Sweden used to sell a deal called pyramid rings. It was basically the same thing as cutrings but you had to machine a reciever groove in the top of the bores to locate them. That never caught on. Most all the high hp build used a stock gasket with stainless orings in the block cut with the isky oring tool which worked well. MaxPSI used to sell a copper gasket with sealing rings around the water passages and a stainless ring embedded in it around the bores. I don’t know what happened to those. A lot of people built 3.0l motors with an s52 crank and 84mm bore just because the head gasket failures were so much worse with 87mm bores.

    On stock bottom end builds everyone used to run .120 or .140” cometic mls gaskets to lower compression and people also tried the stock thickness ones on built motors. The failure rate was pretty bad. I remember people poping 3 of them in a year. It seemed like they were pretty much guaranteed to fail eventually. I remember a thread from 10 years ago asking everyone to report how long their mls lasted and I remember most people saying 3 to 12 months or so with a few people reporting a couple years with no problems. People tried all kinds of head and block refinishing methods to get the right RA but they failed anyway. Some people used to get the head and block machined for 1/2” studs which didn’t help much and often resulted in a cracked block. Somewhere along the line they got arp to fix the stud design and changed to the 2000 material which was a huge help. The final fix was when the cutring gaskets came out. That pretty much fixed the problem once and for all, even on the s52 bore size. Not long after that they started selling the Clark copper spacers with it and that pretty much blew the doors open for the 500-600 whp stock bottom end builds people are used to now. I’m sure there are some people out there that have had them for 5 years with no issue but that not typical.

    I don’t think anyone has really come up with an explanation of why the mls’s are so unreliable on an m50 when they will hold 3000 hp on a Chevy, but I have a theory of my own. If you look at all the stock applications with mls gaskets, most are only .020” to .040” thick. Some are just a single layer. They also usually do not have viton on the entire surface. My theory is I think the viton acts as a thermal insulator and with so many layers stacked up it cannot reject the combustion heat into the head and block and the middle layers of the gasket overheat and burn. Just my theory.

    next time I’ll tell you about when nobody could tune the stock ecu and we all had to run megasquirt 2’s, piggybacks and tec 3’s
    Last edited by someguy2800; 07-27-2018 at 08:57 PM.


    86 325es, 2.8L m50, S476sxe, ProEFI 128 ecu, e85, solid rear axle, TH400 trans, 28x10.5w slicks, zip ties, popsicle sticks, tape
    best time 9.06 @ 151.8 mph, best 60 foot 1.30

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by someguy2800 View Post
    Sit around the campfire and I’ll tell you about the old days.

    About 10-12 years ago before the cut ring gaskets and arp 2000 head studs were available head gaskets in these things were a real problem. The arp studs they used to sell were undercut really bad and were basically no better than stock bolts. S52’s were really hard to keep a head gasket in them in high hp builds. PPF in Sweden used to sell a deal called pyramid rings. It was basically the same thing as cutrings but you had to machine a reciever groove in the top of the bores to locate them. That never caught on. Most all the high hp build used a stock gasket with stainless orings in the block cut with the isky oring tool which worked well. MaxPSI used to sell a copper gasket with sealing rings around the water passages and a stainless ring embedded in it around the bores. I don’t know what happened to those. A lot of people built 3.0l motors with an s52 crank and 84mm bore just because the head gasket failures were so much worse with 87mm bores.

    On stock bottom end builds everyone used to run .120 or .140” cometic mls gaskets to lower compression and people also tried the stock thickness ones on built motors. The failure rate was pretty bad. I remember people poping 3 of them in a year. It seemed like they were pretty much guaranteed to fail eventually. I remember a thread from 10 years ago asking everyone to report how long their mls lasted and I remember most people saying 3 to 12 months or so with a few people reporting a couple years with no problems. People tried all kinds of head and block refinishing methods to get the right RA but they failed anyway. Some people used to get the head and block machined for 1/2” studs which didn’t help much and often resulted in a cracked block. Somewhere along the line they got arp to fix the stud design and changed to the 2000 material which was a huge help. The final fix was when the cutring gaskets came out. That pretty much fixed the problem once and for all, even on the s52 bore size. Not long after that they started selling the Clark copper spacers with it and that pretty much blew the doors open for the 500-600 whp stock bottom end builds people are used to now. I’m sure there are some people out there that have had them for 5 years with no issue but that not typical.

    I don’t think anyone has really come up with an explanation of why the mls’s are so unreliable on an m50 when they will hold 3000 hp on a Chevy, but I have a theory of my own. If you look at all the stock applications with mls gaskets, most are only .020” to .040” thick. Some are just a single layer. They also usually do not have viton on the entire surface. My theory is I think the viton acts as a thermal insulator and with so many layers stacked up it cannot reject the combustion heat into the head and block and the middle layers of the gasket overheat and burn. Just my theory.

    next time I’ll tell you about when nobody could tune the stock ecu and we all had to run megasquirt 2’s, piggybacks and tec 3’s
    This is going to be my most idiotic question, but does it make any difference with my motor being an M52? I can't imagine it would, but doesn't hurt to ask. My engine-building buddy already has the MLS sitting at his place with the ARP studs that came with it, so we'd have to send it back and drop more money to get the cutring combo. Obviously if this saves my new motor, I'm going to do it.

  17. #67
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    No it’s all the same. What is he doing to the motor?


    86 325es, 2.8L m50, S476sxe, ProEFI 128 ecu, e85, solid rear axle, TH400 trans, 28x10.5w slicks, zip ties, popsicle sticks, tape
    best time 9.06 @ 151.8 mph, best 60 foot 1.30

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by someguy2800 View Post
    No it’s all the same. What is he doing to the motor?
    Shit well then I should probably get a different kit eh? He's swapping all of the accessories from my M50TU to an M52 block with a rebuilt head. I'm not sure with his workload if he'll be able to do it soon enough for me though... I've considered doing it myself but I don't have the tools nor the knowhow. Not that I have a lot of knowhow before doing anything new on these cars, but I wouldn't want to screw it up.

  19. #69
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    Hi all,

    It's been a minute or two since I've updated. This was mostly due to me twiddling my thumbs while I waited for the motor to be returned to me.

    Alas, it's in my possession. To get the elephant in the room out of the way, it has the .089 MLS kit that we ended up with. I'll spare you all the details, but this was mostly due to my engine builder, finances, and time. The plan is to run it either until failure or when I decide to put the cutring in myself.

    That being said, everything else is tippy toppy. Got all new gaskets around, cleaned and painted some stuff, new idlers, thermostat, water pump, and manifold with the turbo mocked up! The picture I've got is before I played with the turbo and wastegate clocking.

    The plan for tomorrow is to drop the motor in and make sure everything fits as needed. If it does, I'll move forward. I'm a little spooked about the placement of the wastegate being so far back, but hoping the angling and height of the motor negates that.

    Also waiting on universal intercooler piping (2.5" and 3"; fml) and a drain hose.

    41095688_259913174648470_6141296714901880832_n.jpg

    I've been toying with the idea of flex-fuel. I'm in the cities, so E85 should be available enough but I also want to be able to travel a bit if I need/want to. Can anyone weigh in on this? Is it difficult to set up? Bear in mind I've done no research at this point lol.
    Last edited by CallMePuff; 09-06-2018 at 12:08 AM.

  20. #70
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    Bad news bears...

    The manifold that I bought doesn't allow me to install lines into the A/C compressor. At least I don't think it does...I doubt any custom fittings will help me here.

    Probably going to just sell this one and go through Otis since it's tried and true.

    IMG_20180907_183026.jpg

  21. #71
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    I've got a whole lot going down right now, and im currently trying to fit a front mount intercooler in. I've started chopping up the bumper to fit, but I'm having a hell of a time cutting these aluminum welds holding the bottom piece of the brace in.

    Does anyone have any tips for cutting aluminum in this tight space? Cuttoff wheel (not meant for aluminum) isn't working well.

    Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
    Last edited by CallMePuff; 09-19-2018 at 06:19 PM.
    '95 E34 525i, M50B32 (S52 Crank, K1 Rods, JE 9.0:1 Pistons, S52 Cams, Cutring, Achilles Oil Pump Shaft & Sprocket), GTW3684R 0.82A/R, ZF320

  22. #72
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    cuttoff wheels on aluminum works better if you just basically skim across the surface and only cut like 1mm at a time and make multiple passes. Otherwise is melts and clogs up the wheel. I can't tell what your cutting or how much space you have but a sawsall with a wood blade or believe it or not a wood cutting circular saw works awesome on aluminum.


    86 325es, 2.8L m50, S476sxe, ProEFI 128 ecu, e85, solid rear axle, TH400 trans, 28x10.5w slicks, zip ties, popsicle sticks, tape
    best time 9.06 @ 151.8 mph, best 60 foot 1.30

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by someguy2800 View Post
    cuttoff wheels on aluminum works better if you just basically skim across the surface and only cut like 1mm at a time and make multiple passes. Otherwise is melts and clogs up the wheel. I can't tell what your cutting or how much space you have but a sawsall with a wood blade or believe it or not a wood cutting circular saw works awesome on aluminum.
    Good to know. I hit it with the sawsall with a wood blade and it worked a bit better than the cuttoff wheel. Still gonna take some time, but I'll get to it. The weld I'm trying to cut is basically right in the middle of that picture vertically.

  24. #74
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    Just got my 3" inlet exhaust dual tips and HOLY SHIT THEY'RE HUGE. I have a feeling this won't fit without some cutting lmao.

    Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
    '95 E34 525i, M50B32 (S52 Crank, K1 Rods, JE 9.0:1 Pistons, S52 Cams, Cutring, Achilles Oil Pump Shaft & Sprocket), GTW3684R 0.82A/R, ZF320

  25. #75
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    Printed the return shipping label for those tips lol. I realized I accidentally ordered dual 3.5" tips instead of my intended 3" tips. Whoops!

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