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Thread: Puff's "What's A Turbo?" '95 E34 Build Thread

  1. #1
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    Puff's "What's A Turbo?" '95 E34 Build Thread

    Intro:

    Howdy!

    A couple years ago I bought a '95 525i/5 for $1000. It was sitting at around 240k at the time of purchase and I've run it up to about 275k in my time of ownership.

    Almost as soon as I signed the title I was fantasizing about turboing the car at some point, and now I finally have the time/funds to do so. The goal is to hit somewhere in the 350whp range without completely demolishing my bank account or car. Without further ado, let's give it a shot.

    Disclaimer: I will be asking dumb questions. Please be patient with me as I learn the ropes. I've spent a lot of time perusing turbo build threads, but I'm pretty sure I've learned next to nothing.


    Legend: Anything with a next to or in it means I'm a little unsure if what I have is correct and would appreciate anyone's insight or suggestion on the matter.

    A list of parts I have so far:
    - Ebay HX35 (May consider getting something a little less...Ebay ) Ended up getting a new Garrett 60-1 journal bearing. eBay turbo sold!
    - Tubular T3 top-mount exhaust manifold that was used on a running FI setup (per the previous owner)
    - Blitz BOV Ended up with a Tial BOV instead
    - Tial MVS 44mm Wastegate
    - A small ebay intercooler
    - An MS3 Pro, the wiring harness that comes with it, and a gutted MS41 DME case with the 88-pin connector and 6 stock coil drivers
    - LC-2 Wideband
    - A lot of time and patience

    A to-buy list:
    - MAP Sensor Done
    - Charge piping
    - Oil feed and drain + fittings
    - Gauge(s) for interior
    - A new wiper reservoir to relocate
    - Muffler(s)
    - VANOS banjo bolt for turbo oil supply Done
    - Catch can
    - Injectors Done
    - An electric fan to replace the stock one

    Here's the to-do list in no particular order:
    [] Swap the M50TU to a refreshed single-VANOS M52 (ARP Studs and VAC .120 headgasket)
    [x] Build the adapter harness with the MS3Pro
    [] Install the manifold and turbo
    [] Install the intercooler and charge piping
    [] Get a downpipe and exhaust welded up
    [] Install exhaust
    [] Tap the oil pan for oil return I've read something or another about using the stock drain location with a new bolt and a T
    [] Install oil supply and return
    [] Install the MS3Pro/Adapter
    [] Tune away


    Pictures:
    Snapchat-678915544.jpgIMG_20180428_110347.jpg
    Last edited by CallMePuff; 08-02-2018 at 09:42 AM.

  2. #2
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    Small shipment of things arrived today!

    IMG_20180509_180946.jpg

    - LC-2 Wideband
    - Lots of solder
    - Ring connectors
    - Braided sleeving
    - Heat shrink (I actually got the wrong size, so I'm ordering some additional)

    Does anyone have a pinout for the MS3Pro to M50TU harness? I've made something of a pinout, but I'd like to verify with a working one.
    Last edited by CallMePuff; 05-09-2018 at 08:07 PM.

  3. #3
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    Is that an E36 manifold? I don't think there is room to do bottom mount on an e34


    86 325es, 2.8L m50, S472sxe, MS3pro Ultimate, e85, solid rear axle, 4 link, spool, TH400 trans, Protorque converter, 28x10.5w slicks, zip ties
    Best = 9.43 @ 149.15 mph, 1.30 60 foot 28 psi boost

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by someguy2800 View Post
    Is that an E36 manifold? I don't think there is room to do bottom mount on an e34
    No, it was off of a boosted E34 also; top mount!

  5. #5
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    Quick question: has anyone successfully blocked off or removed an internal wastegate? I have this ebay turbo which looks to be of decent quality, but I could also just go for one that already doesn't have an internal since I have the Tial 44mm. Thoughts?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by CallMePuff View Post
    Quick question: has anyone successfully blocked off or removed an internal wastegate? I have this ebay turbo which looks to be of decent quality, but I could also just go for one that already doesn't have an internal since I have the Tial 44mm. Thoughts?
    Get a quality turbo that can utilize the tial 44mm ewg. Looks can be deceiving....


    96 328is turbo
    98 Hellrot M3/4/5

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmw328m52 View Post
    Get a quality turbo that can utilize the tial 44mm ewg. Looks can be deceiving....

    I can work with that. It's turning out that this "setup" that I bought last year which included 2 manifolds, a stock fuel rail (why?), the BOV, an ebay wastegate, and some piping was not really worth it lol. I've replaced the turbo (which will seemingly get replaced now), the wastegate, and won't be using the fuel rail. Expensive mistakes! Thanks for the insight.

  8. #8
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    Today I got the copious amounts of colored 20g wire that I ordered along with the correctly sized heatshrink tubing. We've also got some .31" diameter solder, ring connectors, the MS3Pro, and the 88-pin connector with the stock coil drivers. I'm going to attach my pinout; if anyone has an inkling of info for an OBD1 M50TU/M52 to MS3Pro, let me know!

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...pub?output=pdf

    IMG_20180511_162536.jpg

  9. #9
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    Hi all,

    I have the option of going for a new 5858 journal bearing for about $1000 or a Garrett 60-1 journal bearing for $850.

    Opinions? I'm trying to educate myself on turbo specifications, but I'm sure your collective knowledge is greater than I can learn!

    EDIT: Borg Warner also an option?
    Last edited by CallMePuff; 05-15-2018 at 08:27 PM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by CallMePuff View Post

    Almost as soon as I signed the title I was fantasizing about turboing the car at some point, and now I finally have the time/funds to do so. The goal is to hit somewhere in the 350whp range without completely demolishing my bank account or car.
    You will blow the engine before you even get it to run right, happens to 90% of the noobs. Looking at the parts you already bought, I know it is going to be a mess. E34 is a heavy car and 350hp is nothing, stock E34 540i will be able to keep up with you. When you put your whole plan on a paper you will realize it is a waste of money and time.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by hakentt View Post
    You will blow the engine before you even get it to run right, happens to 90% of the noobs. Looking at the parts you already bought, I know it is going to be a mess. E34 is a heavy car and 350hp is nothing, stock E34 540i will be able to keep up with you. When you put your whole plan on a paper you will realize it is a waste of money and time.
    While I appreciate your concern, telling me this benefits me in no way if there's no advice to accompany it. What exactly makes it a mess?

  12. #12
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    don't feed the troll


    86 325es, 2.8L m50, S472sxe, MS3pro Ultimate, e85, solid rear axle, 4 link, spool, TH400 trans, Protorque converter, 28x10.5w slicks, zip ties
    Best = 9.43 @ 149.15 mph, 1.30 60 foot 28 psi boost

  13. #13
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    350 is plenty of fun. And the build could be done for <3k

    I wouldn't build a 350 car to go around and try to race it anyway... Who would

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by 328iFun View Post
    350 is plenty of fun. And the build could be done for <3k

    I wouldn't build a 350 car to go around and try to race it anyway... Who would
    Yeah it's basically just to not have the stock 180-something horses. I'm trying to do it right though so that it can be pushed a little further since I've read about people just pushing it a little further once the current power gets stale.

    Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

  15. #15
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    My sights are aimed in the general direction of a Precision 5858 .82 A/R or a friend has a Garrett 60-1 for sale at .63 A/R.

    Which one of these is going to work best for the 2.8L?

  16. #16
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    HackerTT giving unsolicited shitty "advice" again. What a surprise? He also said my standalone would "Never run right" but while I have 1 small bug to work out still it runs just as well as the car ever did stock and I didn't lose any OEM features. My cluster works 100% (unlike his) EVEN the MPG gauge will work once I connect 2 wires!!! He gives us shit if we take more then 6 months to build a car but I did mine in a year once I pulled the engine and it took him 3-4 according to the pictures I found online of him doing it on another car. I mean if I had a second try at doing all of the stuff I did on mine I'm pretty sure it would only take me a couple months to build soo.....

    Rant out of the way.... I have a Genuine Holset HX35 on mine. I LOVE this turbo for a street car but I would STRONGLY advise getting a real one AND a 14cm housing to go with it. This turbo can easily make 400 whp, I'm making 352 at 12 PSI and still cranking it up (on E85). Mine was a $200 used one on ebay that said "for core or rebuild" when I got it I inspected it and everything seemed fine so I just put it on and it's perfect, there's literally nothing wrong with it. HX35's just last forever.
    1997 328is - Megasquirt PNP, Holset HX35, Deka 80lb injectors, SPA T3, Precision PW39 WG, Synapse Synchronic BOV, DKM Organic Twin Disc Clutch, Innovate LC-2 W/B, Mishimoto Intercooler, Mishimoto Catch Can, Mishimoto Rad, Corsa Exhaust

  17. #17
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    So I went ahead and bought a Garrett 60-1 to replace the HX35 eBay rep I was going to use. It's funny the things I find myself replacing before even building anything.

    Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

  18. #18
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    Vibrant Performance make really nice muffler/resonators. I'm running their 3" ultraquiet resonator and a 3" streetpower muffler on my car and they were beautiful pieces to work with (although a little on the loud side). I used their V-band clamps as well. They're really nice (quick release, replacable tee bolt, no fucking nyloc nuts, alignment lip) but they are expensive and warp when welding(as all vbands, just go slow and clamp everything together until all the welding is done.) There are a few cheaper alternatives out there, but most stuff isn't quick release.

    Catch can. I tried the Mann Provent that had lots of people ranting and raving about it, and honestly it sucked. I think running the largest diameter hose you can from the valve cover to a vented catch can is probably the easiest approach besides venting straight to atmosphere.Injectors: Lots of people run Siemens Deka 60's or 80's. They're cheap and are the right size, but they hate operating at low pulsewidth so idle is rough. Also fakes are a problem. Above that, ID, Deatschwerks, FIC are all options that will have less variance and better idle quality for a big price increase.

    Electric fan: a stock clutch fan will flow more than whatever electric fan you're probably going to install. I'm not sure what E34 aux fan setup is like, but if it's similar to the E30's electric fan+rad mounted temp switch, look into the "official electric fan wiring thread" on r3vlimited.

    Oil drain: With the engine out of the car, it's easy to drill and tap either the block(behind the AC bracket, or thereabouts) or the side of the timing cover for an AN union, or AN-NPT fitting. Braze/weld/JBweld/whatever. It's no extra effort vs the oil pan, but then the return is guaranteed to be above the oil pan oil level, and it gives you one less thing to disconnect if you need to pull the oil pan for any reason.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern View Post
    Injectors: Lots of people run Siemens Deka 60's or 80's. They're cheap and are the right size, but they hate operating at low pulsewidth so idle is rough. Also fakes are a problem. Above that, ID, Deatschwerks, FIC are all options that will have less variance and better idle quality for a big price increase.
    Would 42lb/hr Bosch injectors be suitable for the job? From what I've read, that should technically be enough headroom for the power I'm hoping to make.


    Quote Originally Posted by Northern View Post
    Electric fan: a stock clutch fan will flow more than whatever electric fan you're probably going to install. I'm not sure what E34 aux fan setup is like, but if it's similar to the E30's electric fan+rad mounted temp switch, look into the "official electric fan wiring thread" on r3vlimited.
    The idea was to keep the clutch fan and replace the stock aux fan with a slimmer one. The shape of the front bumper on the E34 limits the options for intercooler sizes. I have one that fits without making any modifications to the bumper, but the stock aux fan is way too thick. I believe another member here helped me determine how to make that work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Northern View Post
    Oil drain: With the engine out of the car, it's easy to drill and tap either the block(behind the AC bracket, or thereabouts) or the side of the timing cover for an AN union, or AN-NPT fitting. Braze/weld/JBweld/whatever. It's no extra effort vs the oil pan, but then the return is guaranteed to be above the oil pan oil level, and it gives you one less thing to disconnect if you need to pull the oil pan for any reason.
    If it's tapping into the side of the timing cover, is there a risk that the fitting welded in will stick too far through the cover?

    Thanks for all of your insight! Incredibly helpful.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by CallMePuff View Post
    Would 42lb/hr Bosch injectors be suitable for the job? From what I've read, that should technically be enough headroom for the power I'm hoping to make.
    Most size charts say that those will be alright for 350-400, fine if you don't plan on upping the boost down the road.


    Quote Originally Posted by CallMePuff View Post
    The idea was to keep the clutch fan and replace the stock aux fan with a slimmer one. The shape of the front bumper on the E34 limits the options for intercooler sizes. I have one that fits without making any modifications to the bumper, but the stock aux fan is way too thick. I believe another member here helped me determine how to make that work.
    On my E30, I have a 3" intercooler, then a Spal pusher fan(iirc it's 1.85" thick), then a Z3m rad, and it all just barely fits. You should be able to straight swap the stock fan for a skinnier one.


    Quote Originally Posted by CallMePuff View Post
    If it's tapping into the side of the timing cover, is there a risk that the fitting welded in will stick too far through the cover? .
    Yeah, definitely take the time to plan out where you want it. Make sure there's nothing close to block oil flow and cut down the fitting before you weld it in so it protrudes as little as possible.

  21. #21
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    What clutch/flywheel do you guys think is best suited for daily driving? I figure if I'm pulling the trans and motor to put the M52 block in, I might as well prepare a stronger clutch.

    EDIT: I've heard whispers of some clutch/flywheel combos chattering. Is the stock dual mass flywheel plus an FX clutch good for driveability?

    Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
    Last edited by CallMePuff; 05-31-2018 at 09:51 AM.

  22. #22
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    I'm thinking of going with UUC's M5 clutch/flywheel kit. While more expensive than I had originally planned, I have a feeling it'll retain the stock clutch feel for the most part and not chatter. I'd also like to do this right the first time around so I can get fast and reliable instead of fast and cheap.

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  23. #23
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    I've ridden in an M3 with UUC's cerametalic clutch and it drove great and held a good bit of power. For injectors you had just as well get the 60 lb siemens. They are cheap and there is no downside to them at all over 42's.


    86 325es, 2.8L m50, S472sxe, MS3pro Ultimate, e85, solid rear axle, 4 link, spool, TH400 trans, Protorque converter, 28x10.5w slicks, zip ties
    Best = 9.43 @ 149.15 mph, 1.30 60 foot 28 psi boost

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by someguy2800 View Post
    I've ridden in an M3 with UUC's cerametalic clutch and it drove great and held a good bit of power. For injectors you had just as well get the 60 lb siemens. They are cheap and there is no downside to them at all over 42's.
    I was going to buy the Bosch 42s from a member on here for $100. He used em on his turbo build and they looked to be clean; he said they worked just fine when he took them off.

    Comparatively, the Siemens 60s are $320 for a set of 8. Should I just bite the $220 bullet?

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  25. #25
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    Update for today! Pictures below.

    Received a UUC M5 Performance Organic Clutch/Lightweight flywheel combo from a guy that was letting it go barely used. Came with the throwout bearing and the flywheel resurfaced. He informed me that it should be rebalanced and to get new flywheel bolts. Anything else I might need off the top of anyone's head? I'll be doing some research myself also.

    Also received mint 60lb Siemens Deka injectors; delivered in a bundle of napkins. Dropped off by a stork.

    Still working on the MS3Pro adapter and making some good headway there, learning a lot. Hopefully my solders hold up, especially on the coil drivers since I had to bend the pins after the fact.

    Also wanting to get this adapter finished and try running it on my current stock M50TU to ensure it's all wired correctly before throwing it into a low-compression M52 with turbo goodies on it. Waiting to pull the M50 until I can ensure the MS3 is working properly.

    Clutch/FW/Throwout bearing:
    IMG_20180614_162449.jpg

    60lb Siemens Deka Injectors:
    received_10211410461488536.jpeg

    MS3Pro Adapter:
    IMG_20180614_164822.jpg

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