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Thread: Misfire/Fuel Cutoff when HOT

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Minneapolis, MN
    Posts
    38
    My Cars
    2003 325i

    Misfire/Fuel Cutoff when HOT

    Okay, so I have read a lot of threads on misfires and lean codes at idle, but I figured since this is more track day related it's best posted here.

    Long story short I picked up an unfinished project car; 2003 325i M54 for a drift build.
    Its needed a few things but overall it was in good condition for 160,000 miles

    It purrs like a kitten cold but starts to misfire when it gets hot, (like drift abuse hot) I have found this out the hard way with a drift day this weekend.

    So i run it hard; car loses power and shakes, get back scan it; camshaft sensors, and multiple cylinder misfires with fuel cutoff.

    So, we dug into it... compression test showed 180-195 on the cylinders. No oil in the coolant. Smoke testing showed leaks so replaced intake boots, intake manifold caps, inspected underneath, made sure smoke was coming out of the oil cap, etc. No further leaks could be found.

    Ran it again; multiple cylinder misfires with fuel cutoff.

    Fuel pressure tested. 44 psi key on, dropped to 40 when off. Replaced Fuel filter, 47 psi key on. Holds 45 key off after 10 minutes. Fuel pump has 45-50psi fluctuating while redlined even. Everything fuel related looks okay.
    Inspected DISA, no damage but it doesnt hold the flap when my thumb covers the hole, it just opened completely.
    Replaced DISA, (this one just slowly turns with the thumb test. I'm not sure what proper spec is, ive heard both hold or slowly dropping is okay to be honest)
    Car idles with the misfire, disconnecting coil #3 #4 don't change anything, swap coils, problem fixed, run it again, #3 #4 misfire is back
    Clean the MAF, take electrical cleaner and clean off all the connections we can find (Coils, DISA, MAF, the one on top of the intake, VANOS solenoid up front)

    Run it again, misfire with fuel cutoff and now crankshaft sensor code 0336. (this is where I get worried)

    Bring it back to camp, go to restart.... no crank. Lights on the dash, but no crank. Under the car you hear a click, no crank. (EML light turns off after 2 seconds of a no crank)

    Let it cool down for 5 mins: no crank, try again, fires up. Has a misfire immediately.

    Try to find codes, no codes present. Look for pending codes, shows multiple misfire w/fuel cutoffs & misfire during start (misfires during start is new one)

    Tried clearing codes, misfire was still there. For whatever reason clearing codes couldn't get the car to idle right. Maybe the Crankshaft sensor is just cooked now and its causing all of this? Fuel system in the past has been status 8 and open loop on freeze frame data.
    Short term fuels have been 20+% and sometimes they show 0% in freeze frame data.

    Few things to note, (maybe this is causing my problem)
    VCG has a leak (more present in back by #4 5 6)
    Fuel level gauge on the dash doesn't work. (rests far left at E)
    Coolant temp gauge is weird. Dash reads a little hot but my manual coolant temp gauge reads 195-205, OBD reads the same as my manual gause, 195-205.

    My thought is something changes when the car heats up and is causing a vacuum leak.
    I don't think it's fuel
    I don't think it's plugs or coils
    I think it may be major electrical (power, ground, wiring)
    I think it may be an intake manifold that's cracked.


    Few questions:
    Could a bad Pre-Cat O2 sensor cause this ?
    Is a vanos seal failing when hot?
    Can a bad crank sensor cause all of these fuel cutoffs AND a no crank?
    Does smoke testing it once its hot help or hurt a diagnosis? I was told you only smoke test cold.
    Could it be the secondary air pump failing and causing the car to lean out?

    Thank you everyone
    Last edited by BryceMotch; 05-07-2018 at 05:58 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Parker, Colorado
    Posts
    3,128
    My Cars
    GTS3 E36, 97 M3/4/5
    Battery status? Voltage from Alternator?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Minneapolis, MN
    Posts
    38
    My Cars
    2003 325i
    Battery is new.
    Is there a test point for the alternator that is best?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    West Seattle/ Pullman, WA
    Posts
    78
    My Cars
    98 M3 Cosmos
    I'm not familiar with the M54 but I've recently had similar issues with my S52, minus the no crank.
    My car would randomly die at idle and misfire bad under hard driving, when warm.
    I scanned the car with a cheap OBD2 reader. It showed multiple misfires and crank pos sensor codes; I replaced the crank pos sensor but the problem persisted.
    I then scanned with my friend's INPA computer. This showed secondary air pump valve, secondary air relay and injector 2/5 failure codes. (crank pos code didn't return)
    This all happened right before I was planning an M50 manifold swap.
    So while the intake was off I replaced all the vacuum lines, deleted secondary air and had my injectors rebuilt.
    The problem hasn't returned.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Minneapolis, MN
    Posts
    38
    My Cars
    2003 325i
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthWestM View Post
    I'm not familiar with the M54 but I've recently had similar issues with my S52, minus the no crank.
    My car would randomly die at idle and misfire bad under hard driving, when warm.
    I scanned the car with a cheap OBD2 reader. It showed multiple misfires and crank pos sensor codes; I replaced the crank pos sensor but the problem persisted.
    I then scanned with my friend's INPA computer. This showed secondary air pump valve, secondary air relay and injector 2/5 failure codes. (crank pos code didn't return)
    This all happened right before I was planning an M50 manifold swap.
    So while the intake was off I replaced all the vacuum lines, deleted secondary air and had my injectors rebuilt.
    The problem hasn't returned.
    Do you recall if they were misfires or fuel cutoff misfires? I know mine is adding so much fuel that the injector is shut off, and then the car misfires because its just an air pump at that point. I'd love insight on how to diagnose a failing secondary air pump

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    West Seattle/ Pullman, WA
    Posts
    78
    My Cars
    98 M3 Cosmos
    Looking back at screenshots of the cheap OBD2 reader it seems they were P030X misfires and not fuel cutoff misfires like I remembered. So maybe my issue isn't as similar as I thought...

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Minneapolis, MN
    Posts
    38
    My Cars
    2003 325i
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthWestM View Post
    Looking back at screenshots of the cheap OBD2 reader it seems they were P030X misfires and not fuel cutoff misfires like I remembered. So maybe my issue isn't as similar as I thought...
    I think I still will delete the secondary air pump...

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