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Thread: M52 turbo new build issues

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
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    E36

    M52 turbo. Help Please !

    Hello guys,

    I've been a Bimmerforums member for years but havent posted in a long time. I have an track car E36 with an obd2 m52 with M3 cams and an M50 manifold. Its a great running car and made 229hp on a local Dynojet dyno.

    Im not looking for huge HP, hopefully something i can track without alot of issues, maybe 375 hp ...?

    Went ahead with my first turbo build and I now have a SPA bottom mount, a Borg EFR7670 core with a AGP .82 turbine housing, a 3" x 22" Treadstone intercooler , Turbosmart Compgate40, and an Innovate SCG Boost Controller. No cat, full 3 " mandrel bent exhaust with a 12" glasspack and a 14" Jones high flow muffler.

    The 2 problems I am seeing are slow to spool , and making more boost than the wastegate spring.

    The slow to spool im judging only by 2 other builds i know of with the same parts and very similar exhaust. Although they are in E46 2.8s. Those 2 cars are spooling about 1000 rpm ealier.

    Mine is making less than 5 psi at 3500 rpm

    I first started the car with a start up tune by Tony from RaceIQ (awesome guy)

    With a 7 lb spring the Innovate gauge indicates at least 9 psi. (the dyno read the same psi )

    Ive tried the following things: Not in order.

    Removed the Boost controller from the system, other than to read boost from the intake manifold thru the MAP. Connected a line from the compressor housing directly to the lower port of the wastegate , with the top port vented to atmosphere.

    Tried a new Wastegate with the same results.

    Replaced the Borg CRV with a Turbosmart Compact BOV .

    Pressure tested and smoke tested with no leaks found.

    Tried a 5 psi spring and it made about 8 psi.

    Epoxied the "turkey neck" fitting into the intake manifold.

    including a pic to show the turbo /wastegate / downpipe ( it was only tack welded when i took the pic )

    WastegateDownpipeMerge.jpg

    Thanks for any suggestions,
    Last edited by trackE36; 05-19-2018 at 08:26 PM.

  2. #2
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    Is there anything obvious in this build that would cause it coming on boost slowly and making more boost than the wastegate spring?

  3. #3
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    trying to add some pics

    Last edited by trackE36; 05-08-2018 at 06:58 PM.

  4. #4
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    more pics

    Last edited by trackE36; 05-08-2018 at 07:01 PM. Reason: Move pictures into post.

  5. #5
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    95 M3
    Looks like a clean build. IIRC, folks have mentioned needing to open up the WG opening on the spa manifold. Did you port yours?

    why did you go with a turbo rated for "up to 2.6L" when your M52 is making great power in NA Form. I would say the turbo is to small, maybe it is running in the choke area of the graph at low boost, and when it finally gets to a higher PR, the compressor is finally in a good efficiency range to then boost creep? Just a thought, not really sure why your having these issues, but maybe someone will chime in and offer some good advice?
    WOT

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Stevens PA
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    1998 M3, TT stg2
    You may have done this, but check for exhaust leaks around the flanges. I use a mechanics mirror and look for steam on it after a cold start and letting it idle. If you have some miles on it, it also may be carbon witnessing at the exhaust leak. Tough to see on these cars with so many miles on them though.

    How long does the intercooler system hold pressure and "what" pressure are you testing at? The red flag I might see is that black, wrinkle powder coat on the piping. That stuff is almost impossible to get a good seal on with silicone couplers because it's not flat. They almost always leak on decent turbo pressure (> 10psi). Do you have the Vbands/Wiggins clamps on the entire IC piping or just at the compressor? If you do, ignore my concerns about the coat texture, but check that your clamps all have Orings and are flush with each other.

    Also, most smoke testers don't put enough pressure on the intake system to even show most turbo leaks. You need to pressure test it at the turbo inlet up to 20-25psi (BE CAREFUL THOUGH). 20-25psi is nothing to take lightly when it pops to ATM. You'd also be amazed at many times the compressor back plates leak. Soap all that stuff down and look for bubs under pressure.

    That smaller EFR should be on full spool by 3K RPMs. I wouldn't worry about the more boost than WG spring as that isn't always an exact science per engine/turbo combo. You are pushing a lot of displacement volume through that smaller housing.

  7. #7
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    Yes the SPA manifold has been ported, If i remember correctly its 1.56" now.

    I hope i didnt choose the wrong siize turbo , I copied 2 local builds in E46's. 1 had a 2.8 and the other had the 3.0L.

    We did add some psi with the compressor while smoking it. We had it over 30 psi.

    The wrinkle coating is a very good point. I might have gotten lucky by installing the tubes before the paint was totally cured because it laid down pretty flat under the silicone couplings. But i will remove that before re-assembly.....THANKS.

    Since I was out of ideas, I took everything apart to look for problem areas. I took the SPA manifold off yesterday and i see nothing to convince me it was leaking, but ya never know for sure i guess. So i will keep all of your suggestions in mind as i put it back together.

    Thanks for the help guys, and please let me know if anyone thinks of something else.

  8. #8
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    Updated with Dyno file...need some advice please

    So, i put everything back together and went back to the dyno. It still seems late building boost.

    Dynofile9.5.png

  9. #9
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    Any codes for vanos, sure it's working properly? Maybe a faulty vanos could account for it coming in late. I had your version of turbo just as a journal bearing and was hitting 15psi before 4000rpms...something is fishy here.

  10. #10
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    I didnt think of a Vanos issue, ill check that out.

    I forgot to add the details: I had a 5 lb WG spring in it and with the Innovate boost controller off it made 6.7 lbs and 330hp.

    Turned the boost controller on at 8% duty cycle and thats the dyno file that i posted.

  11. #11
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    when does the vanos come in, 3500rpm?

  12. #12
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    Well technically it turns off but yeah about that. Also if you're able, skip the low boost with the EFR. Id put at least an 8lb spring in it and control it to 10 or so. Theres no reason that 7670 can't make 400whp on a 2.8. I'm not 100% sure on your engine setup only do this if you have at least lower compression.
    Last edited by Mklock; 05-18-2018 at 08:00 PM.

  13. #13
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    The only update i have is there are no codes that seem to have anything to do with the Vanos. Maybe I should can check it with some air pressure and 12 volts ?

  14. #14
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    Cam timing

    I put cam timing tools back an the cams, its off slightly i think. Would that be enough to effect the slow boost?



    20180512_095349.jpg20180512_095400.jpg

    - - - Updated - - -

    ive tried 3 , 5 ,7 and 14 lbs of spring and they all build boost the same

  15. #15
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    Might be vanos not cam timing. If it’s staying retarded, response will be worse.

  16. #16
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    Turbo is too big.

  17. #17
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    EFR 7670 is not big except by factory turbo standards, and EFR typically respond well due to the center bearing and light titanium alloy turbine. I don’t think it’s the turbo although I agree a tiny turbo would spoil faster.

  18. #18
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    Recommendation for EFRs below 10psi is internal gate not external. Run more boost if you can. Otherwise you wont see much change

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by trackE36 View Post
    So, i put everything back together and went back to the dyno. It still seems late building boost.

    Dynofile9.5.png
    What gear was that

    Seems fine to me for a 7 psi spring with no boost control.. you're over thinking it...

    You want faster spool? But a higher spring in or connect a boost controller.

    E36 DYNO TUNING WIRING PARTS

  20. #20
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    Oops, i forgot to add that to the post. I had the Innovate SCG-1 boost controller set on 8% duty cycle. Gain was set to zero. Active Spring pressure was 3.0 psi.

    Ive tried with and without the boost controller connected with the same resulting spool.

    Ive tried up to a 14 psi spring, same result.

    I just tested the vanos with air pressure and 12volts and it seems to work fine with a difference of over 8.5mm.

    I believe that run was 4th gear

    Maybe I am overthinking it...

  21. #21
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    You have some great hardware, also a 2.8L. If your tune is spot on and it all sounds good maybe this is just what it is. IMO it still seems late, granted I have a 3.2L with. "Semi tubular twinscroll manifold" I had 5 psi at around 3200 starting from 2600 in 4th. No data logs to prove though 10psi came in at 3700, full boost shortly after.

  22. #22
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    From what he said and looking at what that turbo does on a 3.0l 2JZ, that does seem to be spooling awfully slow. I'd suspect an exhaust leak, the best way to test this is to find a shop with a smoke machine and have them pump it through your tail pipe.
    1997 328is - Mishimoto Rad - 17" wheels - E46 Sport seats - Suede headliner - M Bumper - A118 Dashcam - Escort Radar Detector - FX-R Bi Xenon Projectors - iJDM Switchback Angel Eyes - Joying Android Double DIN head unit, Megasquirt PNP, Holset HX35, Deka 80lb injectors, SPA T3, Precision PW39 WG, Synapse Synchronic BOV, GM Flex Fuel sensor, Innovate LC-2 W/B, Mishimoto Intercooler, Mishimoto Catch Can, Corsa Exhaust

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