Fuel systems for 1000hp

[bavdrftr318]

I'm hoping some of you here can help me understand what it takes and what is required to replace the factory fuel lines. My plan is 2 twin 485 pumps on dual hangar, aeromotive fpr, and stainless steel fuel lines.

From what I've collected if my plan is to do a 800-850whp setup on e85 it probably can be achieved with 115# injectors and twin 485 pumps. I did some research on how cutting the hose and getting the fittings on so I think I have that part handled. But what I don't know if how many fittings I'll need to create the system.

Does anyone have or know of a detailed thread where someone has done this similar? Will 15 feet of line for each be sufficient from summit racing? Also what is this aeromotive fuel pressure regulator that I'll need? It seems there are a few different options. Any links would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

[vollosso]

I do this. Mega pain. Get the new rally hangar enjoy a beer.


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[someguy2800]

My car took 40 feet of hose I think but my fuel cell is behind the rear end. 30 feet would probably be enough on an e36. -6 hose would probably work but I would just do -8. You will be maxxed out on injectors at 850 whp and 115 lb injectors.

this one would work

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/aei-13139/overview/

I have been using this one in my car for 11 years. Its the oldest part in the car lol. I ordered it out of a catalog at Napa (and paid $110 for it if I recall)

https://speedmaster79.com/universal-...oost-ref-port/

[bavdrftr318]

Good to know. So 8an feed and 6an return is good for what 1000whp or so on e85? Just want to future proof the lines as to not have to do it twice.


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[someguy2800]

I'm of the opinion that the feed and return should be the same size. At idle 99% of the fuel is going back through the return. -8 will easily support like 1500 whp. If you really want to future proof it, I would get a megasquirt and 220 lb injectors. I have regular rubber lined summit racing -8 hose in my car but some say you should use teflon lined hose. The teflon fittings are a pain in the ass though.

[bavdrftr318]

Does that less expensive regulator you linked support 8/8?


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[someguy2800]

Yeah you just need to screw a male 3/8 ntp to 8 an adapter into it. I think they also make one that is machined for a -8 oring fitting, which is better. I can't vouch for the quality on these things, they are made in china, but mine has worked okay.

[bavdrftr318]

Good to know thanks for the help


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[someguy2800]

Need any help on fitting?

[beeasy]

This is what I used to build my fuel system with rally road double pump hanger and rail. It was very easy to assemble.

The hose
https://www.racerpartswholesale.com/...ocketless_Hose

and the fittings
https://www.racerpartswholesale.com/...tless_Fittings

[someguy2800]

Oh and you'll need something for the fuel rail to hook up AN fittings to it. Most get a rally road fuel rail. I have no money so I cut the ends off a stock rail and welded a piece of tube on tapped 3/8 NTP.



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[TheJuggernaut]

I'm of the opinion that the feed and return should be the same size. At idle 99% of the fuel is going back through the return. -8 will easily support like 1500 whp. If you really want to future proof it, I would get a megasquirt and 220 lb injectors. I have regular rubber lined summit racing -8 hose in my car but some say you should use teflon lined hose. The teflon fittings are a pain in the ass though.

If you're able to set the regulator to your desired pressure at idle, then the return is sufficient size. I have no trouble with a -8 feed and -6 drain. Even though most of the fuel gets returned, you still need to build significant pressure for EFI, which is done by restriction, a pretty major one.

Also, teflon fittings take a little getting used to but they are otherwise SO much easier to work with than rubber. Again, once you figure out your own couple of tricks for doing it. And they don't stink. Something no one ever seems to talk about is that these "racing" rubber braided fuel hoses aren't lined and they all weep fuel vapor, making you think you have a small leak somewhere.

[someguy2800]

Mine overpowers the regulator by about 3 psi at idle with both pumps running but its consistent so the tune just compensates for it. I think the opposite, I think the rubber ones are way easier to put together and not leak, but then again I've only ever used the teflon ones on hydraulic fittings to hold like 2500 psi. They are really fickle to get them to not leak with hydraulics. On my car you can smell the E85 when you first open the trunk (fuel cell is in the trunk) but I have never been able to smell it walking around the car in the shop.

[TheJuggernaut]

Mine overpowers the regulator by about 3 psi at idle with both pumps running but its consistent so the tune just compensates for it. I think the opposite, I think the rubber ones are way easier to put together and not leak, but then again I've only ever used the teflon ones on hydraulic fittings to hold like 2500 psi. They are really fickle to get them to not leak with hydraulics. On my car you can smell the E85 when you first open the trunk (fuel cell is in the trunk) but I have never been able to smell it walking around the car in the shop.

What kind of regulator do you have? I haven't had any trouble with the regulator with the engine off and the fuel pump singing at full jam.

E85 is probably better in terms of stank.

Which teflon hoses did you use? I can build an aeroquip hose in minutes and I've never had one leak, but I've only done fuel and clutch lines. For brakes I get them made with crimped ends.

[bavdrftr318]

Any regulators out there that can fit 8/8 that are around 100-150 bucks?

Just want to make sure I get one that has a decent rep but doesn’t need to be crazy fancy....


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[bavdrftr318]

Is there another option besides the rally road dual fuel pump hangar? Just realized this bitch was 330 bucks just for the frame! Would Id be more cost effective to just run one pump per side then plumb them together?

[vollosso]

Is there another option besides the rally road dual fuel pump hangar? Just realized this bitch was 330 bucks just for the frame! Would Id be more cost effective to just run one pump per side then plumb them together?

You can do that, but the passenger side isn’t set up for it. Look into what has been done to make it work. Its a pain and you have to run the pumps full time.

I think the rr hangar is rereleasing at new pricing.


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[someguy2800]

What kind of regulator do you have? I haven't had any trouble with the regulator with the engine off and the fuel pump singing at full jam.

E85 is probably better in terms of stank.

Which teflon hoses did you use? I can build an aeroquip hose in minutes and I've never had one leak, but I've only done fuel and clutch lines. For brakes I get them made with crimped ends.

Aeroquip -4 hose and ends. I have like 60 feet of it in my fish house and its all getting capped off this summer and replaced with cupronickle hardline as I'm tired of replacing fittings in the middle of the lake in a blizzard and dumping 6 quarts of synthetic ATF on the ground. I also have 50 feet of -6 to make my trans cooler lines but haven't done it yet. Regulator is just a cheap procomp one I bought 12 years ago.

[BadBoostedBmwM3]

I need your hook up... ^^^

On welding some fittings to the stock rail.

[someguy2800]

I need your hook up... ^^^

On welding some fittings to the stock rail.

Its easy. Its just steel.

[PEI330Ci]

Also, teflon fittings take a little getting used to but they are otherwise SO much easier to work with than rubber. Again, once you figure out your own couple of tricks for doing it. And they don't stink. Something no one ever seems to talk about is that these "racing" rubber braided fuel hoses aren't lined and they all weep fuel vapor, making you think you have a small leak somewhere.

An then there's me....that actually had a leak on the surge tank....but thought it was weeping fuel vapor from the lines.....for a LONG time. I might quality for a Darwin....

You can do that, but the passenger side isn’t set up for it. Look into what has been done to make it work. Its a pain and you have to run the pumps full time.

I think the rr hangar is rereleasing at new pricing.

I run 2 pumps in the OEM fuel tank, one on each side. The driver's side pump is used to transfer fuel to the passenger's side of the tank. The passenger's side pump is used to transfer fuel into the surge tank. The engine's fuel supply is pulled from the surge tank, and returned to the surge tank. The surge tank has an overflow that goes back to the driver's side of the OEM tank.

In theory, with a full tank of fuel, I'm pulling fuel equally from each side...and the fuel does does a loop through the surge tank and each "hump".

I run both pumps at the same time, but I don't run the pumps all the time. At idle they are on a 30 second /90 second routine, where they are on for 30 seconds, and off for 90 seconds. When throttle position goes above 50%, they turn on. Under load, they pull 4.6 amps. If the tank runs dry, the current draw drops well below 4 amps. I have a safety feature on the PDM where the pumps individually turn off if, while running, current draw drops below 4 amps. A red status light is then activated on the keypad telling me where the fault is, as well as a red light on the SLM mounted above my dash to really grab my attention.....

I think a simple 555 timer (30 seconds on, 30 seconds off) would probably be just as effective with the "transfer" pump on a 2 pump system, as long as the fuel return remained on the driver's side.

[jakermac]

Mine overpowers the regulator by about 3 psi at idle with both pumps running but its consistent so the tune just compensates for it.

When B&M started making adjustable regulators years ago that bolted to the top of the OEM Honda regulator body, they made the bleed orifice (passage from the pressure side to the return side) too small. Any time someone upgraded the fuel pump on their Honda with one of these regulators, the pressure side could not be turned down enough to get the pressure back close to OEM levels. Larry Widmer from Endyn came up with a solution whereby he tested various number drills to open up the orifice to just the right size so the regulator could manage the pressures appropriately. Maybe something to look at for your regulator.

[someguy2800]

When B&M started making adjustable regulators years ago that bolted to the top of the OEM Honda regulator body, they made the bleed orifice (passage from the pressure side to the return side) too small. Any time someone upgraded the fuel pump on their Honda with one of these regulators, the pressure side could not be turned down enough to get the pressure back close to OEM levels. Larry Widmer from Endyn came up with a solution whereby he tested various number drills to open up the orifice to just the right size so the regulator could manage the pressures appropriately. Maybe something to look at for your regulator.

I'm fine with it the way it is but if I ever have to put in a 3rd pump I would need to do something about it. I think if you drilled out the orifice you'd have a hard time getting it to seal and hold pressure after shutdown.