I hate to ask as I'm sure tire questions are all too frequent but hear me out...
I've raced a spec class on Toyos for several years. I have no clue at all what other tires are out there these days. Browsing online has been daunting to say the least.
My car is unregistered and trailered to the track. No street use.
Current size on the Kosei's it came with are 225-45-17 (aged out G-Force R1's).
For the present I'm just interested in learning this car in between instructing other groups. I'm used to Toyo RA-1's and the like. I don't need Hoosier quality grip but also don't want to be frustrated with a 'compromise' tire that will hurt my lap times by several seconds. What I see available that look like they would provide a blend of grip, duration and affordability (under $200 per tire) are:
Bridgestone RE71R
Toyos (various - R1R, RR, R888R)
Nitto NT01 or NT05
Falken Azenis RT615k
Hankook Ventus
Dunlop Direzza
It would be nice if they would also sorta work in the wet as I only have the one set of wheels at the moment.
Real world experiences with any of these tires on a road course environment would be welcome. I need to get a set soon.
NASA HPDE instructor
Step up to a 235/40R-17 for starters or even 245/40-17 for more grip.
While this section of the forum is pretty good you might consider joining this old group at a new location -
Send E36m3 mailing list submissions to
e36m3@list.duckworthlabs.com<mailto:...kworthlabs.com>
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://list.duckworthlabs.com/cgi-bi...listinfo/e36m3
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
e36m3-request@list.duckworthlabs.com...kworthlabs.com>
You can reach the person managing the list at
e36m3-owner@list.duckworthlabs.com<m...kworthlabs.com>
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Agreed on going as wide as you can, up to 245 or 255 square.
As for tire selection, I love my Hankook RS4's. Very sticky and fairly durable, and they also did fine on the track in the wet (I also drive them on the street in the rain on occasion). The Dunlop Star Specs are similar based on my research, but the Hankooks were cheaper when I got them. The RE71R's are more of an autox tire from what I've read, really sticky but also not very durable. Don't have any idea about Nitto/Falken/Toyo.
1999 M3/2/5 - Titanium Silver - Track/Weekend Toy
+1 for the RS4s.
RE71's melted away pretty fast. Nice grip while it lasted.
Currently running NT01 in 235/40 sometimes and I have always liked those. They grip good and last long. They're okay wet when new. Once the tread is gone, they are pretty much the same as slicks in rain.
Did a set of Federal RS-RRs in 235/40 last season and I could not believe that much grip was available for $100/corner. I just giggled every time I thought about it. I'm doing the FZ-201s on another car this season, and I'm even more impressed; for me it's grippier than NT01's for less money. Both these tires are about the same as the Nittos rain-wise.
If God meant for man to motor-swap LS engines into track cars, He wouldn't have created Corvettes.
I've got dunlop star spec zIIs and I love them. They are probably slightly less grippy than RS4s but they last forever and they perform well in the wet. I've got over 20 days on the set I have now and I still haven't hit the wear bars. They definitely don't grip like they used to but they are still consistent and for the purposes of having fun they still work great.
I have Kumho Ecsta V720s on my M3 and Hankook RS4s on my other car. Albeit a lighter car the RS4's are wearing like iron compared to the Ecstas. Grip is damn good wit the V720s so I cant complain but ill probably try the RS4s when these wear out for apples to apples comparison on the same car.
Yeah I really wanted those last year when I bought my track tires, but the RS4's had just come out and were substantially cheaper so I got them instead. I see that now the Dunlop ZIII's are out which I assume is the new version of the ZII star specs, and they're actually cheaper than the RS4's on Tirerack. They're probably worth a try, as $158/tire with a $50 rebate per set for 245/40-17 isn't bad at all. Looks like the RS4's run somewhat wider than the Dunlops, for what it's worth.
Last edited by TostitoBandito; 05-02-2018 at 07:52 PM.
1999 M3/2/5 - Titanium Silver - Track/Weekend Toy
I’m running a set of Dunlop Star Specs on my Kosei’s (235 width). I’ve been very happy with them, after 6 days on the track (and driving to and from the track) they’re not showing a lot of wear, and they don’t fall off significantly over the course of a 30min session.
My experience is limited to this one set of tires though, perhaps there are better alternatives
Federal RS-RR for the best performance to dollar - below average wet grip
NT01 for the longest lasting, least greasy tire for the dollar - almost no wet grip
Hankook TDs is my favorite, but they're not cheap. 80 treadwear with insane grip. It's basically an RS3 on steroids. - almost no wet grip
I've got 5 NT01s, 4 that are 50% life and 1 that has 0 miles I'm selling if you'd like to try them without having to shell out $800+ for a new set. If you really like them then you only have to buy 3 more to have 4 brand new ones.
Let me know if your interested.
Thank you everyone for the tremendous response. This is proving to be really helpful.
Sounds like I should go to 245-40-17 size. The car came with some stock wheels that have 'roller' tires on them in that size which tells me fit won't be an issue.
NASA HPDE instructor
NT01s are my favorite practice tire for sure. Over laps, days, weeks, temperatures, pressures, they're always damn consistent. They just don't care. Enough grip to hang with the joneses and decently low wear rate.
I love the nitto nt01, but have recently tried the maxxis rc1 and think I prefer them. They certainly last longer for me. Both have yielded similar lap times, slight edge to the maxxis. I run both in 255/40r17 on a 17x9 et42 apex wheel. The nittos can be cheaper when bought on the discount tire direct sale on ebay, but I think the cost/heat cycle will be in favor of the maxxis when I wear them out. I have 30 or so on them now with tons of tread left and the last set of nittos I ran I got 25 heat cycles before they corded.
Last edited by lcrain; 05-03-2018 at 11:52 AM.
Nt01. 255/40/17. The only answer for an HPDE tire unless you plan to drive in the rain IMO..
As far as starter R comps go, I've only ever used the NT01 before, so take that for what it's worth. I just corded a set after 10.5 days of 4 sessions/day....probably 85% of those sessions were pushing for speed. They were consistent all the way to the cord, only getting unpredictable in the very last session.
Highly recommended.
I've also used the Z1, Z1*, Z2*, Rival, RS3, and RE71R on track. Of those, the RE71R is by far my favorite but it does not last. Similar grip to an NT01 but they get greasy quickly. RS3 I really didn't like, they just don't work with my driving style. I'm glad I switched to the NT01 though, I can go an entire 30 minute session without having to think about greasy tires and can push, lap after lap, for the entire day. Awesome tire.
"Fear disturbs your concentration" -Sabine Schmit
1995 BMW M3/2/5-- S54 + Mk60 DSC, California Smog Legal (Build Thread)
1998 BMW M3/4/5 Alpine/Modena, Z3 Rack, otherwise stock-- DD without burbles
2017 Chevy SS, Orange Blast Metallic, 6MT -- DD with burbles
RE71Rs are a great track driver if you drive them correctly. They do not award heavy handed driving; they WILL melt away. A lot of guys are racing on them in AER and they will last a full 9 hour session. I started with a set this weekend on a shared car with ~8 track days on them and we put 16 25 min sessions on them and we still have tread left. Yes, they look somewhat like slicks and yet we think they may have 1-3 days left on them. They are also inexpensive. My car is about 2600 lbs.
I've been very impressed with the RS4 for dry and wet conditions. But they are definitely slower in dry conditions than an NT01.
I also ran a set of Rivals and was shocked at how well they did in the rain. They are slower and the sidewalls feel softer than RS4s, though.
A long time ago I had a set of NT05s; They were nothing special.
If you're not worried about wet weather conditions I would go with the NT01.
If you do care about wet I would take a good look at the RS4s.
No experience with the RE71R.
Heres a good link for you
http://racetrackdriving.com/tech/tir...ire-hierarchy/
I don't think you can go wrong with any of the 100 treadwear R comps.(excluding the old r888 which people seem to dislike) I currently am using Maxxis RC1 and like them, I keep a backup set of rs3s for driving to the track and I'll put those on if it rains.
Hankook Ventus Z214 (C51 Compound)... been using them at every event all year long. Great tire, rain or shine... but only drive them in the rain if you can get enough speed to get heat in them, or they are worthless. Not as worthless as all seasons on track in the rain though....
I DD my track car on Federal RSRR... best bang for the buck tire, safe in all weather conditions for my driving habits, nice to warm up on if I am too lazy to run the slicks in the AM sessions.
Last edited by bluptgm3; 05-08-2018 at 05:19 PM.
If God meant for man to motor-swap LS engines into track cars, He wouldn't have created Corvettes.
BTW, thanks everyone. I'm leaning toward the Nitto NT01 for this go-round. Spending this year learning the car before moving to TT next year.
Guess I need to change my avatar...
NASA HPDE instructor
Well just a little update I want to say definitely dont ever buy Kumho Ecsta V720's. I have had these on my car since March 2nd this year. A hair over 2 months. 3 hours of big track time and about an hour or 2 of a local outdoor go kart track i run on. Less than 3k total miles. Tonight the middle separated and ripped off of one. They are done.
IMG_20180511_222137.jpg IMG_20180511_213341.jpg
edit: Swapping to my stock wheels today found one other delaminating and another to the cords. As far as im concerned this garbage shouldnt be on any car.
Bout to pull the trigger on some Federal RS-RRs. $450 to my door hard to resist
Last edited by tvcasualty; 05-12-2018 at 06:40 PM.
Bookmarks