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Thread: Why would one need to replace a VCG at only 60k miles - a warning sign??

  1. #1
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    Why would one need to replace a VCG at only 60k miles - a warning sign??

    I'm wondering if having to replace a VCG at 61k miles is possibly a warning sign??

    I'm looking at a 2002 Z3 3.0, which appears in pristine shape [it's 9 hrs away and all I have are photos]... but the owner (a private seller), is proud of the fact that he replaced the VCG - believing that I should interpret that as a sign of his taking care of the Z...

    But I'm wondering: why should one have to replace such at such a low mileage? One thought that comes to mind is: that he overheated it - blown radiator or heater hose maybe (??), or radiator leak which allowed the top of the head to go dry (??) and the reason the VCG was leaking is that there is now an incipient head gasket leak (which is only going to get worse), which is venting exhaust gases into the oil, which is pressuring the top of the head (cam gallery), causing the gasket to leak, ie, doesn't the gallery normally in fact operate at a slight vacuum, ie, shouldn't any oil seep be sucked back into the cam gallery? ...

    Or is this not unusual, ie, yes, only 60k-ish miles, but at 16 years the gasket has become dry and simply isn't sealing as a fresh one would? I know when I did the VANOS I replaced the VCG on my '99 2.5, but at 140k miles the VCG sealed perfectly.

    When have others replaced their VCG for reasons of incipient seepage? Does doing such at 60k miles send up red flags also?

  2. #2
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    Thats a really creative thought process to explain why 16 year old rubber is dry

  3. #3
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    It's one thing to go over a car and preemptively replace hoses, mounts, and gaskets. It's another to just replace that one gasket. If he didn't say anything else about replacing other items, I'd be suspicious too.

  4. #4
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    Ya'll are crazy

    And OP I kind of doubt your car's VCG was original at 140k
    Even ignoring the years of age - a car this old with 0 miles will have hardened rubber too - 60K is actually right around when I'd start inspecting the VCG. Very lucky to get 100K out of them, it's worse on the west coast since the dry air helps suck the moisture out of the rubber and the heat helps accelerate the curing process

    Though again this is a good example to me of why you buy the car and not the "numbers" - be that the year, mileage, whatever. You bought a car with 140K that hasn't given you any problems, because at 100K a bunch of stuff was likely serviced. A car with 60k was driven little enough for someone to ask a premium for it, but not so much that it's been serviced and reliable as a daily driver.

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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by cngizbleevng View Post
    It's one thing to go over a car and preemptively replace hoses, mounts, and gaskets. It's another to just replace that one gasket. If he didn't say anything else about replacing other items, I'd be suspicious too.
    My thoughts too... wondering how one might test for this, or what test to ask for? If it was possibly leaking exhaust gases into the coolant, then I could look for combustion residues there... but he says that the oil was recently changed - so I'm not sure if I can look for residues there... any suggestion on what test to ask for, that would give a good clue if this is one to walk away from (and without tipping my hand in terms of my concerns)??

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by BimmerBreaker View Post
    Ya'll are crazy

    And OP I kind of doubt your car's VCG was original at 140k
    Even ignoring the years of age - a car this old with 0 miles will have hardened rubber too - 60K is actually right around when I'd start inspecting the VCG. Very lucky to get 100K out of them, it's worse on the west coast since the dry air helps suck the moisture out of the rubber and the heat helps accelerate the curing process

    Though again this is a good example to me of why you buy the car and not the "numbers" - be that the year, mileage, whatever. You bought a car with 140K that hasn't given you any problems, because at 100K a bunch of stuff was likely serviced. A car with 60k was driven little enough for someone to ask a premium for it, but not so much that it's been serviced and reliable as a daily driver.
    Strongly suspect it was the case (original VCG): knew owner, had complete service records... no evidence of it being replaced; and totally harder than rock when I replaced it (as part of the VANOS seals).

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by BimmerBreaker View Post
    Ya'll are crazy

    Though again this is a good example to me of why you buy the car and not the "numbers" - be that the year, mileage, whatever.
    I've joined this camp as well with BMWs. I used to always only look for low mileage cars. I now think of them like airplanes or boats. A high hour MAINTAINED one >>> low hour neglected one.

    I bought my Coupe at 142k (150k now) based on the car and the reputation of the guy selling it. I mean, he does run a shop with "Clown Shoe" in the company name. He had a list of recent upgrades and maintenance a mile long, had just manual swapped it (so I knew it probably led an uneventful life as an automatic), and had done some fun mods on it (3.46, headers, M brakes, etc.). It's had its quirks, but what ~20 year old German car doesn't?!

    I simply got lucky with my 52k (58k now) mile Roadster purchase. Lowish mileage, PO had just dumped about $7k in it (supercharger, stereo, cooling system and was an active forum member so I knew he knew the car), but he had to unload it from a market (Hawaii) without a lot of potential buyers. I took the risk buying it sight unseen and shipping it across the ocean, but the gamble paid off. I was also diligent with a thorough PPI that turned up nothing more than a "caution" regarding the mechanical fan delete and a slight oil leak from the PS reservoir. BFD. I've had a blast adding my own touches to it. My fear is finishing the car, because that's usually when I start to get bored and look for something else. At least I know it'll be another BMW if that day ever comes.

    Happy motoring!
    Last edited by s8ilver; 04-26-2018 at 11:18 AM.
    Nathan in Denver

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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by s8ilver View Post
    I've joined this camp as well with BMWs. I used to always only look for low mileage cars. I now think of them like airplanes or boats. A high hour MAINTAINED one >>> low hour neglected one.

    I bought my Coupe at 142k (150k now) based on the car and the reputation of the guy selling it. I mean, he does run a shop with "Clown Shoe" in the company name. He had a list of recent upgrades and maintenance a mile long, had just manual swapped it (so I knew it probably led an uneventful life as an automatic), and had done some fun mods on it (3.46, headers, M brakes, etc.). It's had its quirks, but what ~20 year old German car doesn't?!

    I simply got lucky with my 52k (58k now) mile Roadster purchase. Lowish mileage, PO had just dumped about $7k in it (supercharger, stereo, cooling system and was an active forum member so I knew he knew the car), but he had to unload it from a market (Hawaii) without a lot of potential buyers. I took the risk buying it sight unseen and shipping it across the ocean, but the gamble paid off. I was also diligent with a thorough PPI that turned up nothing more than a "caution" regarding the mechanical fan delete and a slight oil leak from the PS reservoir. BFD. I've had a blast adding my own touches to it. My fear is finishing the car, because that's usually when I start to get bored and look for something else. At least I know it'll be another BMW if that day ever comes.

    Happy motoring!
    I'm also of the same camp - or have been for years [buy the car, not the miles]... but looking at a low mileage one in that I'm hoping the interior will hold up better: currently it is pristine - even both seatbelt guides are intact ;-)

  8. #8
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    I've ordered up a compression leak down test... I'm assuming that'll show if there is a failing / beginning to fail headgasket... will go from there.

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    I knew this thread was going to be entertaining__but I will refrain from making any pro or con statements (no promises about snickering though )

    Graham, you're killing me!



    Nathan, you bought your coupe from Andy? Cool!

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Forbes View Post
    Nathan, you bought your coupe from Andy? Cool!
    Indeed, and it was one of the first items to make it into the new garage. We had just gone under contract on the "new" house at the time, and we were celebrating in Dallas visiting friends...just so happened that Andy's shop was about 15 minutes away so lumped the Coupe deal in with the trip (had actually verbally "closed" the deal over the phone about a month earlier...but that gave him time to swap in the 3.46 and a cat so I could pass the visual in Denver).

    Andy.jpg20160920_163411.jpg

    Buddy in Dallas had just picked up his new ride, but I caught him scoping the Coupe.

    20160827_182743.jpg
    Last edited by s8ilver; 04-26-2018 at 01:41 PM.
    Nathan in Denver

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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by s8ilver View Post
    Indeed, and it was one of the first items to make it into the new garage. We had just gone under contract on the "new" house at the time, and we were celebrating in Dallas visiting friends...just so happened that Andy's shop was about 15 minutes away so lumped the Coupe deal in with the trip (had actually verbally "closed" the deal over the phone about a month earlier...but that gave him time to swap in the 3.46 and a cat so I could pass the visual in Denver).

    Andy.jpg20160920_163411.jpg

    Buddy in Dallas had just picked up his new ride, but I caught him scoping the Coupe.

    20160827_182743.jpg
    VERY cool!

    Never knowing what the future holds, but always interesting when one looks back, the M Coupe I own today was the very first car I put into the garage of the last house we bought; it still belonged to Zoran at that time, and it was sent to me for its Eurosport Twinscrew installation.





    As you can see, it didn't take long to fill up that garage; one (1) month later with the slat-wall & lift in!



    It would be seven (7) years and two (2) months later__to the day__that I would put that same coupe into our current garage. There are no plans for it to leave anytime soon!



    (it went into the detached garage first, then was upgraded to the clean garage)



    [/hijack]
    Last edited by Randy Forbes; 04-26-2018 at 02:04 PM. Reason: poor math!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Forbes View Post
    I knew this thread was going to be entertaining__but I will refrain from making any pro or con statements (no promises about snickering though )

    Graham, you're killing me!



    Nathan, you bought your coupe from Andy? Cool!
    ... though given your years of experience, your comments would be valued ... :-)

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by BimmerBreaker View Post
    Ya'll are crazy
    That's what I'm saying. I mean, I make a living replacing valve cover, oil pan, oil filter housing, etc gaskets on less than 4 year old cars with sometimes less than 20k miles on them. And some of these oil pan gaskets (N63) are metal. Pretty entertaining.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim95M3 View Post
    That's what I'm saying. I mean, I make a living replacing valve cover, oil pan, oil filter housing, etc gaskets on less than 4 year old cars with sometimes less than 20k miles on them. And some of these oil pan gaskets (N63) are metal. Pretty entertaining.
    Having just worked on N62 valve stem seals, I don't envy you

    Aren't VCG's on an N63TU practically an engine-out job?

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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim95M3 View Post
    That's what I'm saying. I mean, I make a living replacing valve cover, oil pan, oil filter housing, etc gaskets on less than 4 year old cars with sometimes less than 20k miles on them. And some of these oil pan gaskets (N63) are metal. Pretty entertaining.
    I think an operative point was missed here, and basically I agree with most of the posts... but: when one is buying a (used) car, one is buying someone else's problems.. and at least in my world, replacing a VCG that early seems to be unusual - or at least I've never had to do such: hence the post, ie, there are those that have had a ton more experience, and it seems that doing such at 60k, although might not be the norm, isn't unusual - which is what I needed to know... but noting: my fear of a incipient HG starting to go, or a warped head etc - put a 350mi test drive on it, checked the water level before; checked it after; sniffed it after: and not loss of coolant, and no smells beyond antifreeze... so: yes, the 98% shot was correct... but in the process: sidestepped the 2%, and much more expensive scenario. ... so as has been said before: all's well, that ends well ;-)

  16. #16
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    Just replaced mine this past weekend. 65K 1998 Z3M
    I suppose I could have just let it go and keep leaking up to 140K. But would rather keep the engine oil and dirt free.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by BimmerBreaker View Post
    Having just worked on N62 valve stem seals, I don't envy you

    Aren't VCG's on an N63TU practically an engine-out job?
    Depends on which side. I think it's the driver side bank that pays ten something hours. I don't even know about the other side. But I do know that stem seals (N63) are definitely an out of the car job. I mean, our engine guys can drop an N63 out of anything in just an hour or two.
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