Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 29

Thread: Bmw key not starting

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    texas
    Posts
    520
    My Cars
    1998 328is

    Bmw key not starting

    I Just went to my bmw to start it up and get lunch but when i put my key in the ignition it will turn freely and wont show any dash lights, WHAT SHOULD I DO,i even tried with my spare key!!!
    98 328is/5 Arctic silver
    99 528i 5speed Alpine white(Totaled Unfortunately)
    Oil pan and timing chain delete, weight reduction right?
    98 540i/6 (New baby)











  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Ca
    Posts
    6,981
    My Cars
    2001 525it
    If you have no dash lights it sounds like the battery is dead

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    San Jose, CA
    Posts
    11,537
    My Cars
    1997 BMW 540i 6 speed
    Do you mean the key, or the engine, will turn freely? Measure the battery voltage with the cluster app.


    Ed in San Jose '97 540i 6 speed aspensilber over aubergine leather. Build date 3/97. Golden Gate Chapter BMW CCA Nr 62319.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    texas
    Posts
    520
    My Cars
    1998 328is
    no i mean the key will turn freely and the battery is at 12.5 volts
    98 328is/5 Arctic silver
    99 528i 5speed Alpine white(Totaled Unfortunately)
    Oil pan and timing chain delete, weight reduction right?
    98 540i/6 (New baby)











  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Alexandria, VA
    Posts
    9,049
    My Cars
    ‘01 540’00 528T’03 525T
    Ignition lock cylinder, pull it out, open it up, inspect it, replace if you have to.
    Set the controls for the heart of the sun

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    San Jose, CA
    Posts
    11,537
    My Cars
    1997 BMW 540i 6 speed
    Quote Originally Posted by zohaibrose View Post
    no i mean the key will turn freely and the battery is at 12.5 volts
    Do you mean that the key spins completely around without engaging the starter, or just that it turns correctly in the lock?


    Ed in San Jose '97 540i 6 speed aspensilber over aubergine leather. Build date 3/97. Golden Gate Chapter BMW CCA Nr 62319.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    texas
    Posts
    520
    My Cars
    1998 328is
    Quote Originally Posted by edjack View Post
    Do you mean that the key spins completely around without engaging the starter, or just that it turns correctly in the lock?
    It won't do anything to the starter just spins freely,

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by BimmrMeUpSnotty View Post
    Ignition lock cylinder, pull it out, open it up, inspect it, replace if you have to.
    I was thinking this, do I need new key if I order a new one or get one from scrap yard
    98 328is/5 Arctic silver
    99 528i 5speed Alpine white(Totaled Unfortunately)
    Oil pan and timing chain delete, weight reduction right?
    98 540i/6 (New baby)











  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    San Jose, CA
    Posts
    11,537
    My Cars
    1997 BMW 540i 6 speed
    Did you make sure the key was fully inserted?


    Ed in San Jose '97 540i 6 speed aspensilber over aubergine leather. Build date 3/97. Golden Gate Chapter BMW CCA Nr 62319.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Yonkers, NY and Argentina
    Posts
    3,283
    My Cars
    1998 528i 5speed Sport
    I get that sometimes, spin the key around and try again. My guess the lock cylinder is going bye bye....

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
    e30 325i, the mighty 4 door granma mobile....Gone
    e39 528i, 4 door sports tank

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    texas
    Posts
    520
    My Cars
    1998 328is
    So i just went ahead and removed the lock cylinder out of the way but after that i tried to start the car with a screwdriver but i still got no dash lights or anything, does it only start if the car detects a lock cylinder?

    there was also a 2 wire connector hooked up to the cylinder, anyone know what that is there for
    Last edited by zohaibrose; 04-21-2018 at 03:43 PM.
    98 328is/5 Arctic silver
    99 528i 5speed Alpine white(Totaled Unfortunately)
    Oil pan and timing chain delete, weight reduction right?
    98 540i/6 (New baby)











  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Yonkers, NY and Argentina
    Posts
    3,283
    My Cars
    1998 528i 5speed Sport
    Quote Originally Posted by zohaibrose View Post
    So i just went ahead and removed the lock cylinder out of the way but after that i tried to start the car with a screwdriver but i still got no dash lights or anything, does it only start if the car detects a lock cylinder?

    there was also a 2 wire connector hooked up to the cylinder, anyone know what that is there for
    I think it detects both, lock and key.

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
    e30 325i, the mighty 4 door granma mobile....Gone
    e39 528i, 4 door sports tank

  12. #12
    geargrinder's Avatar
    geargrinder is offline Having No Trouble Here BMW CCA Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    AndoverRockport MA & Intl
    Posts
    14,856
    My Cars
    E46M3Cic E39.540iT E84X1
    The black thing around the end of the cylinder is the key-transponder ring-antenna. There's zero way the EWS is gonna spin the starter if it doesn't see the key. If you pull the steering column covers you can probably get enough wire space to leave the ring antenna plugged in and leave the key in the loose ignition cylinder, then try the screwdriver. But I think you're going to find the steering column won't unlock without the cylinder mechanism. The car really needs the cylinder in to work.
    2003 M3CicM6 TiAg
    2002 540iT Sport Vortech S/C 6MT LSD TiAg
    2008 Audi A3 2.0T DSG (the daily beater)
    2014 BMW X1 xDrive28i (wifemobile)

    Former:

    1985 MB Euro graymarket 300SL
    1995.5 Audi S6 Avant (utility/winter billetturbobattlewagen)


  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    texas
    Posts
    520
    My Cars
    1998 328is
    Quote Originally Posted by geargrinder View Post
    The black thing around the end of the cylinder is the key-transponder ring-antenna. There's zero way the EWS is gonna spin the starter if it doesn't see the key. If you pull the steering column covers you can probably get enough wire space to leave the ring antenna plugged in and leave the key in the loose ignition cylinder, then try the screwdriver. But I think you're going to find the steering column won't unlock without the cylinder mechanism. The car really needs the cylinder in to work.
    So if I need to replace the cylinder do I need my key reprogrammed or is that only if changing ecu since the chip im my key is hooked up to the ECU
    98 328is/5 Arctic silver
    99 528i 5speed Alpine white(Totaled Unfortunately)
    Oil pan and timing chain delete, weight reduction right?
    98 540i/6 (New baby)











  14. #14
    geargrinder's Avatar
    geargrinder is offline Having No Trouble Here BMW CCA Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    AndoverRockport MA & Intl
    Posts
    14,856
    My Cars
    E46M3Cic E39.540iT E84X1
    Quote Originally Posted by zohaibrose View Post
    So if I need to replace the cylinder do I need my key reprogrammed or is that only if changing ecu since the chip im my key is hooked up to the ECU
    Correct, you do NOT have to worry about the key programming if you change the cylinder.

    Keys are actually paired/programmed with the EWS module, not the 'ECU'.

    The EWS is then what is paired w/ the DME (aka ECU) in an independent and separate mechanism.

    So you need to worry about EWS / key pairing only if:
    - you get a new key
    - you replace the EWS module

    If either the DME or EWS are replaced, then the new one needs to be paired with the existing. If you are trying to use a junkyard part, that is not an easy job, and a dealer can't even do it for you - they can only program brand new units to a car once. But ECU / car-computer specialty guys and some hobbyists can do that stuff, if they have the right gear.
    2003 M3CicM6 TiAg
    2002 540iT Sport Vortech S/C 6MT LSD TiAg
    2008 Audi A3 2.0T DSG (the daily beater)
    2014 BMW X1 xDrive28i (wifemobile)

    Former:

    1985 MB Euro graymarket 300SL
    1995.5 Audi S6 Avant (utility/winter billetturbobattlewagen)


  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    texas
    Posts
    520
    My Cars
    1998 328is
    Quote Originally Posted by geargrinder View Post
    Correct, you do NOT have to worry about the key programming if you change the cylinder.

    Keys are actually paired/programmed with the EWS module, not the 'ECU'.

    The EWS is then what is paired w/ the DME (aka ECU) in an independent and separate mechanism.

    So you need to worry about EWS / key pairing only if:
    - you get a new key
    - you replace the EWS module

    If either the DME or EWS are replaced, then the new one needs to be paired with the existing. If you are trying to use a junkyard part, that is not an easy job, and a dealer can't even do it for you - they can only program brand new units to a car once. But ECU / car-computer specialty guys and some hobbyists can do that stuff, if they have the right gear.
    I am confused, the photo i uploaded says that the replacement cylinder needs to be reprogrammed but here some guys are saying they dont need to be? in the process of removing the antenna ring i accidently broke it and the connecter so should i get a replacement ignition cylinder or not? i see that they sell the tumblr with the antenna ring but i dont know if the antenna ring and the cylinder need reprogramming, some places are even saying they dont sell the tumblr for cars 1998 and up and must be at a dealer, just bought this car and already having a hard time.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by zohaibrose; 04-23-2018 at 10:43 PM.
    98 328is/5 Arctic silver
    99 528i 5speed Alpine white(Totaled Unfortunately)
    Oil pan and timing chain delete, weight reduction right?
    98 540i/6 (New baby)











  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Yonkers, NY and Argentina
    Posts
    3,283
    My Cars
    1998 528i 5speed Sport
    Quote Originally Posted by zohaibrose View Post
    I am confused, the photo i uploaded says that the replacement cylinder needs to be reprogrammed but here some guys are saying they dont need to be? in the process of removing the antenna ring i accidently broke it and the connecter so should i get a replacement ignition cylinder or not? i see that they sell the tumblr with the antenna ring but i dont know if the antenna ring and the cylinder need reprogramming, some places are even saying they dont sell the tumblr for cars 1998 and up and must be at a dealer, just bought this car and already having a hard time.
    The lock and immobilizer is a dealer item, they need your VIN and registration. Getting a used unit will not work, you can code a key, but the other end has to be coded by the dealer.

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
    e30 325i, the mighty 4 door granma mobile....Gone
    e39 528i, 4 door sports tank

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    texas
    Posts
    520
    My Cars
    1998 328is
    so what does this mean then "You do NOT have to worry about the key programming if you change the cylinder. "

    i thought the tumblr was all mechanical how does it need reprogramming? i can belive if the antenna ring needs to be reprogrammed since i broke it but the lock too? not sure what to do
    98 328is/5 Arctic silver
    99 528i 5speed Alpine white(Totaled Unfortunately)
    Oil pan and timing chain delete, weight reduction right?
    98 540i/6 (New baby)











  18. #18
    geargrinder's Avatar
    geargrinder is offline Having No Trouble Here BMW CCA Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    AndoverRockport MA & Intl
    Posts
    14,856
    My Cars
    E46M3Cic E39.540iT E84X1
    Half truths there.

    Yes. Need to bring title or reg etc to dealer to order the cylinder that matches the car.

    No neither the the cylinder nor the "ring antenna" as we tend to call it, require any programming. Zero.

    The disclaimer is about keys, and, honestly still, don't trust all what you read on specific part numbers. Sumtimes they just copypaste crap.

    You can source a junkyard ring antenna NO PROBLEM. I guarantee it. Do it.

    If you somehow stumbled on a lock cylinder from a junkyard that matches you could use that too. But it's statistically nearly impossible, so, practically you have to order that from the dealer.

    But as long as you have same original keys and EWS installed in car, ZERO PROGRAMMING REQUIRED. PROGRAMMING WOULD DO NOTHING.
    2003 M3CicM6 TiAg
    2002 540iT Sport Vortech S/C 6MT LSD TiAg
    2008 Audi A3 2.0T DSG (the daily beater)
    2014 BMW X1 xDrive28i (wifemobile)

    Former:

    1985 MB Euro graymarket 300SL
    1995.5 Audi S6 Avant (utility/winter billetturbobattlewagen)


  19. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    texas
    Posts
    520
    My Cars
    1998 328is
    Quote Originally Posted by geargrinder View Post
    Half truths there.

    Yes. Need to bring title or reg etc to dealer to order the cylinder that matches the car.

    No neither the the cylinder nor the "ring antenna" as we tend to call it, require any programming. Zero.

    The disclaimer is about keys, and, honestly still, don't trust all what you read on specific part numbers. Sumtimes they just copypaste crap.

    You can source a junkyard ring antenna NO PROBLEM. I guarantee it. Do it.

    If you somehow stumbled on a lock cylinder from a junkyard that matches you could use that too. But it's statistically nearly impossible, so, practically you have to order that from the dealer.

    But as long as you have same original keys and EWS installed in car, ZERO PROGRAMMING REQUIRED. PROGRAMMING WOULD DO NOTHING.
    oh ok so the antenna ring doesent contain any codes or something to check if your key is programmed to your ews system,it just tells the ecu their is a key in the cylinder. My dealer wants 170 for the ignition cylinder and i find that very high, can i order the cylinder online from like fcp euro or are they selling bs, they include keys with it, but since my keys are all original with the ews do you think it would work with that unit, i dont know who to talk to or what to get, all i want to believe is i dont want to pay the dealer almost 200$ just to get my car started.
    98 328is/5 Arctic silver
    99 528i 5speed Alpine white(Totaled Unfortunately)
    Oil pan and timing chain delete, weight reduction right?
    98 540i/6 (New baby)











  20. #20
    geargrinder's Avatar
    geargrinder is offline Having No Trouble Here BMW CCA Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    AndoverRockport MA & Intl
    Posts
    14,856
    My Cars
    E46M3Cic E39.540iT E84X1
    Exactly the antenna only passively reads the key as an extension of the EWS. It's literally just an antenna so - nothing to code.

    Ok , now, if you bring your Vin to the dealer, you theoretical get a perfect matching cylinder and your keys all work with it. Assuming they still have one - I've heard they are starting to NLA lock cylinders but it might be cylinder code specific. Because your keys already Are coded to the EWS, the car has no idea anything has changed.

    If you get new cylinder and keys, different story. New keys the EWS doesn't recognize. Then those need to be paired to the EWS via programming. And then the door and glove box and trunk locks don't match so your new key won't open them, so for physical lock emergency backup, you'd have to use the old keys (which will no longer work in ignition).

    Claro?
    2003 M3CicM6 TiAg
    2002 540iT Sport Vortech S/C 6MT LSD TiAg
    2008 Audi A3 2.0T DSG (the daily beater)
    2014 BMW X1 xDrive28i (wifemobile)

    Former:

    1985 MB Euro graymarket 300SL
    1995.5 Audi S6 Avant (utility/winter billetturbobattlewagen)


  21. #21
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    texas
    Posts
    520
    My Cars
    1998 328is
    Quote Originally Posted by geargrinder View Post
    Exactly the antenna only passively reads the key as an extension of the EWS. It's literally just an antenna so - nothing to code.

    Ok , now, if you bring your Vin to the dealer, you theoretical get a perfect matching cylinder and your keys all work with it. Assuming they still have one - I've heard they are starting to NLA lock cylinders but it might be cylinder code specific. Because your keys already Are coded to the EWS, the car has no idea anything has changed.

    If you get new cylinder and keys, different story. New keys the EWS doesn't recognize. Then those need to be paired to the EWS via programming. And then the door and glove box and trunk locks don't match so your new key won't open them, so for physical lock emergency backup, you'd have to use the old keys (which will no longer work in ignition).

    Claro?
    but i dont get it, if i get the exact same part number as the ignition cylinder and order it online wouldnt it work with my original keys and ews? why is it that the dealers tumblr doesent need new keys and one off of a site like ecs tuning does need one, is the dealer programming the tumblr or something
    98 328is/5 Arctic silver
    99 528i 5speed Alpine white(Totaled Unfortunately)
    Oil pan and timing chain delete, weight reduction right?
    98 540i/6 (New baby)











  22. #22
    geargrinder's Avatar
    geargrinder is offline Having No Trouble Here BMW CCA Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    AndoverRockport MA & Intl
    Posts
    14,856
    My Cars
    E46M3Cic E39.540iT E84X1
    SMH. Gah no we've been over this, there's NOTHING TO EFFING PROGRAM IN THE TUMBLR OR THE ANTENNA...

    • The basic cylinder "part number" does not represent a specific keyed-lock-cylinder to match your keys.
    • Without a VIN the part number just represents a 'base' part number. If you were to be able to order one without providing a VIN, you'd get "a cylinder with just any random set of tumblers inside"
    • Basically to get one with matched tumblers to your keys, you need to submit VIN + reg-or-title etc. to the dealer.
    • No dealer even has those, period. They get ordered from BMW USA from the Central Scrutinizer in the sky. Hopefully they have them somewhere. Sometimes they have to come from Germany apparently.
    • Supposedly, as I said, they are even running out of some of those for older cars and sometimes you can't get them anymore (aka "the 10 spares that match your tumbler have all been sold and we aren't making more")
    • SAME EXACT THING for new matching keys by the way - dealer doesn't cut it, they order it and BMW Borg makes (or has on the shelf) the matching key.
    • FCP either doesn't want to, or BMW won't allow them to, (or very possibly both), submit the VIN on your behalf... (too easy for fraud I guess?) So, if they can order anything at all, it's gonna be part numbers that that are cylinder + matching keys (I'm not even sure if E39 has one of those available, but that's what I am assuming FCP is saying that they can order...). I just looked closer at the FCP screenshot you posted and actually the FCP comment is spot on. They indicate "NO FOR 1998+ THIS WON'T WORK" all for reasons I assplained.


    Now BITD for many cars, you could ORDER a cylinder like that, open up yours, swap the tumblers over, then put it back together, and the new cylinder would be internally keyed for your keys. But these cylinders are not designed to be disassembled and re-keyed like that. I mean maybe some master locksmith has some way to drill them out in such a way to reassemble maybe in which case you could re-key a junkyard cylinder, but its not supposed to be done, they are designed to never be opened.

    Good Lord I feel like I'm giving a 2 day workshop here in BMW locking systems. Be sure to do the pre-work in your booklets before tomorrows session where we'll have breakout groups work on exercises. Lunch will be provided buffet style in the foyer at 12:30.
    2003 M3CicM6 TiAg
    2002 540iT Sport Vortech S/C 6MT LSD TiAg
    2008 Audi A3 2.0T DSG (the daily beater)
    2014 BMW X1 xDrive28i (wifemobile)

    Former:

    1985 MB Euro graymarket 300SL
    1995.5 Audi S6 Avant (utility/winter billetturbobattlewagen)


  23. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Yonkers, NY and Argentina
    Posts
    3,283
    My Cars
    1998 528i 5speed Sport
    Quote Originally Posted by geargrinder View Post
    SMH. Gah no we've been over this, there's NOTHING TO EFFING PROGRAM IN THE TUMBLR OR THE ANTENNA...

    • The basic cylinder "part number" does not represent a specific keyed-lock-cylinder to match your keys.
    • Without a VIN the part number just represents a 'base' part number. If you were to be able to order one without providing a VIN, you'd get "a cylinder with just any random set of tumblers inside"
    • Basically to get one with matched tumblers to your keys, you need to submit VIN + reg-or-title etc. to the dealer.
    • No dealer even has those, period. They get ordered from BMW USA from the Central Scrutinizer in the sky. Hopefully they have them somewhere. Sometimes they have to come from Germany apparently.
    • Supposedly, as I said, they are even running out of some of those for older cars and sometimes you can't get them anymore (aka "the 10 spares that match your tumbler have all been sold and we aren't making more")
    • SAME EXACT THING for new matching keys by the way - dealer doesn't cut it, they order it and BMW Borg makes (or has on the shelf) the matching key.
    • FCP either doesn't want to, or BMW won't allow them to, (or very possibly both), submit the VIN on your behalf... (too easy for fraud I guess?) So, if they can order anything at all, it's gonna be part numbers that that are cylinder + matching keys (I'm not even sure if E39 has one of those available, but that's what I am assuming FCP is saying that they can order...). I just looked closer at the FCP screenshot you posted and actually the FCP comment is spot on. They indicate "NO FOR 1998+ THIS WON'T WORK" all for reasons I assplained.


    Now BITD for many cars, you could ORDER a cylinder like that, open up yours, swap the tumblers over, then put it back together, and the new cylinder would be internally keyed for your keys. But these cylinders are not designed to be disassembled and re-keyed like that. I mean maybe some master locksmith has some way to drill them out in such a way to reassemble maybe in which case you could re-key a junkyard cylinder, but its not supposed to be done, they are designed to never be opened.

    Good Lord I feel like I'm giving a 2 day workshop here in BMW locking systems. Be sure to do the pre-work in your booklets before tomorrows session where we'll have breakout groups work on exercises. Lunch will be provided buffet style in the foyer at 12:30.

    Is this going to be on the test?

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
    e30 325i, the mighty 4 door granma mobile....Gone
    e39 528i, 4 door sports tank

  24. #24
    geargrinder's Avatar
    geargrinder is offline Having No Trouble Here BMW CCA Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    AndoverRockport MA & Intl
    Posts
    14,856
    My Cars
    E46M3Cic E39.540iT E84X1
    DEFINTELY. Electric Kool Aid Acid BMW Lock Test.

    - - - Updated - - -

    (this is like a bad trip man...) ;P
    2003 M3CicM6 TiAg
    2002 540iT Sport Vortech S/C 6MT LSD TiAg
    2008 Audi A3 2.0T DSG (the daily beater)
    2014 BMW X1 xDrive28i (wifemobile)

    Former:

    1985 MB Euro graymarket 300SL
    1995.5 Audi S6 Avant (utility/winter billetturbobattlewagen)


  25. #25
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Tx.
    Posts
    4,133
    My Cars
    02 bmw 540
    Quote Originally Posted by geargrinder View Post
    DEFINTELY. Electric Kool Aid Acid BMW Lock Test.

    - - - Updated - - -

    (this is like a bad trip man...) ;P

    This is classic GG right here. Keep up the great writing GG!

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. 1996 BMW 323i Not starting fuse keeps blowing
    By vaughnburrows in forum 1991 - 1999 (E36)
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 07-11-2010, 01:17 PM
  2. Key not starting car..HELP!
    By Dawn Hulse in forum General BMW Mechanical Help sponsored by RM European Auto Parts
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 03-02-2009, 01:22 PM
  3. 1994 BMW 530i not starting or reving up
    By amar1506 in forum 1988 - 1996 (E34)
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 12-05-2008, 04:17 AM
  4. Problem with '95 BMW 325i not starting
    By dlupo in forum 1991 - 1999 (E36)
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 10-29-2008, 04:34 PM
  5. Help !! BMW 318 not starting, Immobilser
    By greenleef in forum 1983 - 1991 (E30)
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 04-16-2006, 03:19 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •