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Thread: Are E39 performance upgrades even worth it?

  1. #1
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    Post Are E39 performance upgrades even worth it?

    I've had my 01 540i for a couple months now and have definitely had some fun on the highway and power sliding around some corners. But I feel like there's so much lacking still, probably due to the size and weight of the car. And no, I don't want an e46 unless it's an M3 because I want something smaller AND more powerful. E39's really don't have much power potential to begin with without breaking the bank and I know of some suspension upgrades possible.

    But is it worth it? I bought my car for 3k and it just doesn't feel right to spend nearly as much to get slight performance improvement when I could get so much more with the same money in other cars.

    And YES I know these cars weren't meant to be sports cars but it's a beautiful car and I'd love to have it drive like one.

    Also, if anyone could recommend any cheapish mods with links to the parts?

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    I think it's very subjective - my feeling is that you should do whatever you like to fully enjoy your car. It's not a car that you're going to sell for a profit, so you may as well make it as personal as possible. When you say 'cheapish mods', what did you have in mind? I don't know if there are any inexpensive mods that will result in noticeable performance. We're happy to help if you have any other questions. Lastly, if you're going to be working on the car yourself; take a look at the link below to our site's DIY tech articles on the E39 platform - there are some very helpful guides to many procedures.

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    Drive like a beautiful car? I think they drive beautifully.
    Sports car? certainly not. Capable? absolutely, very, in the right hands.
    If you want to power slide around corners in something that will pin you in your seat buy a lighter car with a big engine.

    If you can leave two black stripes from the exit of one corner to the braking zone of the next, you have enough horsepower. - Mark Donohue

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    Wrong car, dude. These cars were optimized out of the gate. W/o forced induction, you'll get very little additional performance.

    Get a Mustang, and mod the hell out of it. Then you can do donuts in the street!


    Ed in San Jose '97 540i 6 speed aspensilber over aubergine leather. Build date 3/97. Golden Gate Chapter BMW CCA Nr 62319.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fedisrico View Post
    E39's really don't have much power potential to begin with without breaking the bank and I know of some suspension upgrades possible.
    This about sums it up really. Gotta go big.
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  6. #6
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    Yeah. OLD topic. I appreciate that you indicate in your post that you've done some research/checking and have seen the basic answer but are just looking for some update/comment.

    If pressed for a short answer, it is "No".

    However. The universe isn't a yes/no black/white right/left right/wrong place (despite what talking heads and politicians want us to think).

    If by "performance upgrades" you mean "the usual power adding stuff to the motor"... mmmm mostly no, or, if not 'no' then 'pretty expensive bang for buck compared to 100 other enthusiast cars'.

    Run down the usual suspects:

    • Fiddling around w/ intakes aka CAI - waste of time and money, unless you like 'the extra noise when I mat it'. No significant power results - unless its paired up with other stuff... even then... the stock throttle body is huge and can support plenny powers, guys who screw around w/ that are mostly getting placebo butt-dyno results. Maybe once you have a blower and headers then there could be some bottle neck on the suck-in side. Otherwise... meh.
    • Headers DO provide a bump. Big hassle to install and not cheap either. But maybe worth 20+ hp. Compared to headers on a small-block domestic (aka dirt cheap and you can be half drunk when you knock it off in a couple hours), they are costly and PITA to get on. But you get something from it.
    • Exhaust - maybe. Not much w/ out the headers, most of the 'gains' guys talk about are ear-drum fueled placebo effect unless there's something real different up at the front end. Once that's debottlenecked then yes a big ass tube from front to rear probably does help some.
    • Cams - no can haz. Do not exist. No you can't put S62 cams in. No nobody makes them for the M62 (OK so non-VANOS there used to maybe be some but even those aren't available anymore AFAIK...)
    • Tuning... mmmm OK. IMO most of the 'results' in tunes for a stock M62TU is from throttle profiling. Make the DBW push the lever faster than your foot pushes the pedal. Again if you have headers or some other real custom setup... maybe... but mostly guys crowing about their great tune haven't back to back dyno'd, cuz then they'd find the WOT power is the same, it's just the DBW 'sport mode' effect they are enjoying. That said - I always say, a DBW tune certainly might be worth it anyway if it makes you enjoy the driving characteristics more. SO maybe a tune IS worthwhile just for 'feel' purposes, but it ain't gonna add 'real' power (again unless paired w/ headers etc.)
    • Diff - GOOD upgrade. Put an M5 (clutch LSD) or a helical like a WaveTrac or Quaife or Mfactory. This you WILL notice with stock power cuz you' ain't one-leggin' it all the time. Not super cheap but maybe you can get it in for not too much over a thousand if you put a helical in your OE housing yourself.


    Beyond that the "real power" options for a 540 are:
    • S62 swap make yerself an M5
    • Blower kits
    • Nitrous


    Self-building an M5 needs careful thought vs the costs to sell your 540 and just buy a used M5 and start w/ ALL the other extra goodies already installed. Seldom makes a ton of sense unless you have 'special circumstances'.

    Blower kits (properly setup and enhanced) and nitrous will be FASTER than an M5, but of course you're off the OEM grid. Not cheap either. You could look at the 'Toolman' kit though. He's a new entry and uses junkyard Jag blowers that keep the costs down. Still gonna cost you in the thousands, just fewer of them...

    Oh wait did you say 'what about Turbo'? nearly impossible. Our tptrsn here has built the only proper running, street-driving E39-based M62-engined front-mounted Turbo that anyone can find, and that's a one-off with him doing crazy custom fab to shoehorn it all together and tune it. Oh yeah there've been one or two rear-mount turbos.... they seem to blow their motors a lot tho'...

    All those options are pretty expensive vs what you'd get if you started with a 'proper' mod-platform car that gives much better ROI to your invested time and money. Compared to Nissan GTR or Toyota 2JZ engines or many Audi motors or I6 based BMW's (aka E36 M52 etc.) let alone domestic V8's... etc. etc. etc. its costly-for-weak-results.

    - - - Updated - - -

    (oh and I left out LS swap of course... that works but, takes you down a whole different place...)
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    I disagree with everyone above . Three best things you can do to your car is put in an M5 limited slip differential with tighter gearing, headers for good for about 30 horse, And a lightweight flywheel if your manual transmission type of guy. My car is night and day difference from when it was stock. But overall a superchargers the best bang for the buck if you’re willing to drop huge bucks in one shot.

    If you’re a manual transmission type a guy who enjoys shifting gears you need to remove the CDV,
    Get 545 short shifter, and a jbr flywheel. My car revs like a motorcycle and shift gears like a Ferrari. So much more enjoyable to drive now.

    When it was stock, rev matching on downshifts was out of the question, The dead duck neck gear shifter made it almost impossible to find the right gear at certain times, and the cdv made it impossible to shift smoothly Without bouncing everyone’s head off the seat every time I shifted from 1st to 2nd no matter how slow I was accelerating
    Last edited by topaz540i; 04-18-2018 at 04:38 PM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by geargrinder View Post
    Yeah. OLD topic. I appreciate that you indicate in your post that you've done some research/checking and have seen the basic answer but are just looking for some update/comment.

    If pressed for a short answer, it is "No".

    However. The universe isn't a yes/no black/white right/left right/wrong place (despite what talking heads and politicians want us to think).

    If by "performance upgrades" you mean "the usual power adding stuff to the motor"... mmmm mostly no, or, if not 'no' then 'pretty expensive bang for buck compared to 100 other enthusiast cars'.

    Run down the usual suspects:

    • Fiddling around w/ intakes aka CAI - waste of time and money, unless you like 'the extra noise when I mat it'. No significant power results - unless its paired up with other stuff... even then... the stock throttle body is huge and can support plenny powers, guys who screw around w/ that are mostly getting placebo butt-dyno results. Maybe once you have a blower and headers then there could be some bottle neck on the suck-in side. Otherwise... meh.
    • Headers DO provide a bump. Big hassle to install and not cheap either. But maybe worth 20+ hp. Compared to headers on a small-block domestic (aka dirt cheap and you can be half drunk when you knock it off in a couple hours), they are costly and PITA to get on. But you get something from it.
    • Exhaust - maybe. Not much w/ out the headers, most of the 'gains' guys talk about are ear-drum fueled placebo effect unless there's something real different up at the front end. Once that's debottlenecked then yes a big ass tube from front to rear probably does help some.
    • Cams - no can haz. Do not exist. No you can't put S62 cams in. No nobody makes them for the M62 (OK so non-VANOS there used to maybe be some but even those aren't available anymore AFAIK...)
    • Tuning... mmmm OK. IMO most of the 'results' in tunes for a stock M62TU is from throttle profiling. Make the DBW push the lever faster than your foot pushes the pedal. Again if you have headers or some other real custom setup... maybe... but mostly guys crowing about their great tune haven't back to back dyno'd, cuz then they'd find the WOT power is the same, it's just the DBW 'sport mode' effect they are enjoying. That said - I always say, a DBW tune certainly might be worth it anyway if it makes you enjoy the driving characteristics more. SO maybe a tune IS worthwhile just for 'feel' purposes, but it ain't gonna add 'real' power (again unless paired w/ headers etc.)
    • Diff - GOOD upgrade. Put an M5 (clutch LSD) or a helical like a WaveTrac or Quaife or Mfactory. This you WILL notice with stock power cuz you' ain't one-leggin' it all the time. Not super cheap but maybe you can get it in for not too much over a thousand if you put a helical in your OE housing yourself.


    Beyond that the "real power" options for a 540 are:
    • S62 swap make yerself an M5
    • Blower kits
    • Nitrous


    Self-building an M5 needs careful thought vs the costs to sell your 540 and just buy a used M5 and start w/ ALL the other extra goodies already installed. Seldom makes a ton of sense unless you have 'special circumstances'.

    Blower kits (properly setup and enhanced) and nitrous will be FASTER than an M5, but of course you're off the OEM grid. Not cheap either. You could look at the 'Toolman' kit though. He's a new entry and uses junkyard Jag blowers that keep the costs down. Still gonna cost you in the thousands, just fewer of them...

    Oh wait did you say 'what about Turbo'? nearly impossible. Our tptrsn here has built the only proper running, street-driving E39-based M62-engined front-mounted Turbo that anyone can find, and that's a one-off with him doing crazy custom fab to shoehorn it all together and tune it. Oh yeah there've been one or two rear-mount turbos.... they seem to blow their motors a lot tho'...

    All those options are pretty expensive vs what you'd get if you started with a 'proper' mod-platform car that gives much better ROI to your invested time and money. Compared to Nissan GTR or Toyota 2JZ engines or many Audi motors or I6 based BMW's (aka E36 M52 etc.) let alone domestic V8's... etc. etc. etc. its costly-for-weak-results.

    - - - Updated - - -

    (oh and I left out LS swap of course... that works but, takes you down a whole different place...)

    I've been looking at e36 M3's for around 5k, in your opinion would they be worth the step down in power from the 540i? And would they be more unreliable and costly to maintain?

  10. #10
    geargrinder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by topaz540i View Post
    I disagree with everyone above . Three best things you can do to your car is put in an M5 limited slip differential with tighter gearing, headers for good for about 30 horse, And a lightweight flywheel if your manual transmission type of guy. My car is night and day difference from when it was stock. But overall a superchargers the best bang for the buck if you’re willing to drop huge bucks in one shot.
    Ha ha Topaz you cranky old beyotch! Testify brother. Yer actually basically agreeing with me at least in part / in general. Def I made sure to say the diff is one of the worth-doing things and that the headers are the actual useful mod.

    Good point on the LWFW... although the reason I don't bother recommending it all the time... a LOT of E39 guys seem to be wittle baby kitty cats and get all fussy about hearing the gear noise. I agree it transforms the feel of the car but I'm sick of whiney bitches going 'waah my car makes a buzzzy noise when I lug the engine! its unbearable!'.

    Quote Originally Posted by fedisrico View Post
    I've been looking at e36 M3's for around 5k, in your opinion would they be worth the step down in power from the 540i? And would they be more unreliable and costly to maintain?
    Ha. You can make MORE power than a 540 on an E36 easily.

    Pros:
    - Way more mod possibilities
    - Easier to work on, most of the time
    - REAL PROPER BIG POWER is a solid option (i.e. turbo stuff) and WELL documented / proven path
    - Power/weight ratios once you start modding
    - Mechanically probably MORE reliable than the (often of not always) PITA that is an E39 540. Fewer weirdo PITA M62TU things (no valley pans, water-cooled alternators etc)
    - Parts cheaper mostly and LOADS more choices (ex suspension etc.)
    - Simpler suspension cheaper to mod/maintain
    - More wheel choices / swapability vs the oddball E39 hub-center

    "Make your choice" differences:
    - Handling / driving-feel is light-tossable vs rock-solid.
    - Wind-out I6 vs torquey low end V8

    Cons:
    - Doing the 'real big power option' via turbo is a signficant project, although there are many options
    - Ride quality, noise etc. vs the E39
    - Cheapo interior and fittings vs the E39
    - Some mechanical bits may be cheaper / wear out faster
    - Seem to rust more easily, despite theoretically similar rust-proofing
    - Size for passengers and cargo etc.
    - Styling not nearly as elegant as E39
    Last edited by geargrinder; 04-19-2018 at 07:26 AM.
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  11. #11
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    Agree with the above statements. You didn't mention if your 540i is a sport package. If not, adding a sport steering wheel from the 02-03 years makes a huge difference in feel of driving the car. You can also use a set of dedicated summer tires on 17'' or 18'' OEM sport wheels like a Michelin pilot super sport which will transform the feel again. These cars are more about nuance, keeping them well maintained is enough of a spend in my opinion.

    Of course you can always test drive an E39 M5 or E46 M3 which are very different cars, and sell or trade your 540i once you've got one on deposit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by geargrinder View Post
    Ha ha Topaz you cranky old beyotch! Testify brother. Yer actually basically agreeing with me at least in part / in general. Def I made sure to say the diff is one of the worth-doing things and that the headers are the actual useful mod.

    Good point on the LWFW... although the reason I don't bother recommending it all the time... a LOT of E39 guys seem to be wittle baby kitty cats and get all fussy about hearing the gear noise. I agree it transforms the feel of the car but I'm sick of whiney bitches going 'waah my car makes a buzzzy noise when I lug the engine! its unbearable!'.



    Ha. You can make MORE power than a 540 on an E36 easily.

    Pros:
    - Way more mod possibilities
    - Easier to work on, most of the time
    - REAL PROPER BIG POWER is a solid option (i.e. turbo stuff) and WELL documented / proven path
    - Power/weight ratios once you start modding
    - Mechanically probably MORE reliable than the (often of not always) PITA that is an E39 540. Fewer weirdo PITA M62TU things (no valley pans, water-cooled alternators etc)
    - Parts cheaper mostly and LOADS more choices (ex suspension etc.)
    - Simpler suspension cheaper to mod/maintain
    - More wheel choices / swapability vs the oddball E39 hub-center

    "Make your choice" differences:
    - Handling / driving-feel is light-tossable vs rock-solid.
    - Wind-out I6 vs torquey low end V8

    Cons:
    - Doing the 'real big power option' via turbo is a signficant project, although there are many options
    - Ride quality, noise etc. vs the E39
    - Cheapo interior and fittings vs the E39
    - Some mechanical bits may be cheaper / wear out faster
    - Seem to rust more easily, despite theoretically similar rust-proofing
    - Size for passengers and cargo etc.
    - Styling not nearly as elegant as E39
    ^^^ this ^^^
    My 94 E36 325is, with a whopping bone stock 195 horses...and all urethane bushings, lowered and modified front suspension was the FUNNEST car that I've ever owned or driven.
    It'd easily handle mountain & canyon twisties at roughly twice the speed limit without any problems.
    And that's not even an m3...whatever you get, look for a 5 speed & LSD rear end.

    Sent from my 2PZC5 using Tapatalk

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwetz View Post
    whatever you get, look for a 5 speed & LSD rear end.
    Yeah, of course the old school rule was "get a manual Sport pkg w/ LSD - almost as good (or better?) than an M3 for a fraction of the price". But that secrets been out so long that the guys selling them seem to think they have the only diamond encrusted unicorn scrotum in the universe.

    Then factor in how many of the manual E36's got totally abused and thrashed by kiddies now that they've gone through the "dirt cheap and not particularly desirable" period, and its hard to find decent manual E36's at all let alone an LSD'd Sport... all making the M3's back into probably the best buy out there, IMO. Exact same thing w/ E46's and the ZHP. ZHP - great car, great daily driver, great notch-down alternative to the M3... oh wait, it's such a niche fanatic car now a clean ZHP can go for more than a similar more common M3... uh wut!?!? And I've seen rusty ratbag junkheap Sport E36's listed for stupid money around here based on that whole scene...

    The best bargains in E36 land I see around here are minty old-lady driven autos that you'd buy just to swap and throw a suspension under. Of course you'd have pedestrian seats and steering wheels unless you mod those etc. I've thought of doing a beater E36, too bad there aren't Tourings here, otherwise I'd prob already have one...
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  14. #14
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    Chances are that you could help boost a few HP out of your 540i by cleaning up the fuel injector system with a good additive, and a few other things (like the Idle Control Valve cleaning) in order to regain lost power due to normal wear. Otherwise, it's >$2k for a small turbo setup. Also, if you're looking for a meaner sound, you can always cut off your muffler and replace it with straight pipe.. as well as removing the motor insulation and also the intake dampening chamber (replace the resulting intake opening with a pvc closed-cap).

    Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

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    Quote Originally Posted by geargrinder View Post
    Yeah, of course the old school rule was "get a manual Sport pkg w/ LSD - almost as good (or better?) than an M3 for a fraction of the price". But that secrets been out so long that the guys selling them seem to think they have the only diamond encrusted unicorn scrotum in the universe.

    Then factor in how many of the manual E36's got totally abused and thrashed by kiddies now that they've gone through the "dirt cheap and not particularly desirable" period, and its hard to find decent manual E36's at all let alone an LSD'd Sport... all making the M3's back into probably the best buy out there, IMO. Exact same thing w/ E46's and the ZHP. ZHP - great car, great daily driver, great notch-down alternative to the M3... oh wait, it's such a niche fanatic car now a clean ZHP can go for more than a similar more common M3... uh wut!?!? And I've seen rusty ratbag junkheap Sport E36's listed for stupid money around here based on that whole scene...

    The best bargains in E36 land I see around here are minty old-lady driven autos that you'd buy just to swap and throw a suspension under. Of course you'd have pedestrian seats and steering wheels unless you mod those etc. I've thought of doing a beater E36, too bad there aren't Tourings here, otherwise I'd prob already have one...
    Do zhp's have a lot of potential in terms of power? Because I know they only got a slight bump over the 330ci's.

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    @GG
    About the lwfw. Its a bitch to drive in stop and go. Mucho harder to take off from a dead stop withoutout slipping the clutch hard. 9 out of 10 people would hate this mod. Want to make clear the jbr lwfw is not for everyone. Much more fun to drive but only for people where manual transmission is second nature. (I grew up riding 2-stroke motocross)

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by scyrusurcys View Post
    Chances are that you could help boost a few HP out of your 540i by cleaning up the fuel injector system with a good additive, and a few other things (like the Idle Control Valve cleaning) in order to regain lost power due to normal wear. Otherwise, it's >$2k for a small turbo setup. Also, if you're looking for a meaner sound, you can always cut off your muffler and replace it with straight pipe.. as well as removing the motor insulation and also the intake dampening chamber (replace the resulting intake opening with a pvc closed-cap).
    Almost everything in this post is 100% factually erroneous. I mean its so wrong I think it must be a troll. OK the 'if you want sound cut off your muffler'. That's legit.

    No HP is gonna come from some silly retail splash in the tank injector cleaner.
    EXTREMELY doubtful that the ICV is so bad it has ANY power implications, unless the car is already having BAD idle/stalling problems and throwing codes.

    There IS NO SMALL TURBO SETUP for a 540, and certainly not for anything in the range of $2k. Utterly ridiculous claim. We have a whole 'deadpool' thread here dedicated to proving wankers who claim "turbo it, it'll be EASY!" are idiots.
    As already explained, there's only one guy in the world documented to build a turbo E39 540 and its a result of crazy dedication and hand fabrication and a pretty convoluted custom induction routing and shoehorning of bits.

    The intake helmholtz removal? Oh please. That's layman BS. OK if you want to hear your intake sound, fine. That is not going to affect real WOT power .0001%. The stock motor has MORE than enough bore in the intake and that helmholtz device if anything smooths the flow vs restricting it. Claiming otherwise is layman stoopitity.

    Quote Originally Posted by fedisrico View Post
    Do zhp's have a lot of potential in terms of power? Because I know they only got a slight bump over the 330ci's.
    Not really. Its essentially same M54 motor with just a few tweaks to tune and some cams. So - out of the box its better, but it has same big-picture potential as a basic 330 / M54-based car. Meaning "not as much potential as an older M52 unless you're really committed" due to the aluminum block and hazards of stripping head bolt threads. In fact it got an oddball MS45.1 DME so that makes it a bit trickier to mod vs a garden variety 330 since there's less info on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by topaz540i View Post
    @GG
    About the lwfw. Its a bitch to drive in stop and go. Mucho harder to take off from a dead stop withoutout slipping the clutch hard. 9 out of 10 people would hate this mod. Want to make clear the jbr lwfw is not for everyone. Much more fun to drive but only for people where manual transmission is second nature. (I grew up riding 2-stroke motocross)
    You think so Topz? I don't mind at all. Only when I jumped in another 540 last year for first time in a while did I notice "oh yeah my clutch is a bit tighter...". Of course depends on the clutch you pic etc. too. (don't you have same clutch I do?)
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    Former:

    1985 MB Euro graymarket 300SL
    1995.5 Audi S6 Avant (utility/winter billetturbobattlewagen)


  18. #18
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by geargrinder View Post
    Almost everything in this post is 100% factually erroneous. I mean its so wrong I think it must be a troll. OK the 'if you want sound cut off your muffler'. That's legit.

    No HP is gonna come from some silly retail splash in the tank injector cleaner.
    EXTREMELY doubtful that the ICV is so bad it has ANY power implications, unless the car is already having BAD idle/stalling problems and throwing codes.

    There IS NO SMALL TURBO SETUP for a 540, and certainly not for anything in the range of $2k. Utterly ridiculous claim. We have a whole 'deadpool' thread here dedicated to proving wankers who claim "turbo it, it'll be EASY!" are idiots.
    As already explained, there's only one guy in the world documented to build a turbo E39 540 and its a result of crazy dedication and hand fabrication and a pretty convoluted custom induction routing and shoehorning of bits.

    The intake helmholtz removal? Oh please. That's layman BS. OK if you want to hear your intake sound, fine. That is not going to affect real WOT power .0001%. The stock motor has MORE than enough bore in the intake and that helmholtz device if anything smooths the flow vs restricting it. Claiming otherwise is layman stoopitity.
    I was going to respond with the exact same response/facts before you posted, but I knew in my heart you'd set the record straight as soon as you read the post. GG doesn't disappoint once again!
    Long time no see, I'll have to email you later on for your opinion on a couple of things, cheers.

  19. #19
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    Geez lol. What a bunch of bs

  20. #20
    JimLev's Avatar
    JimLev is offline Artifically Aspirated Moderator
    Join Date
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    GG, glad you didn't forget the LS swap, that worth motor than a VF SC and more than an S62 swap.
    Always could add some N2O, but that ain't for the faint of heart. Don't know what your doing and you can kiss your engine good bye.

  21. #21
    geargrinder's Avatar
    geargrinder is offline Having No Trouble Here BMW CCA Member
    Join Date
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    I dint ferget Nitrous Jim!

    Quote Originally Posted by geargrinder View Post
    Beyond that the "real power" options for a 540 are:
    • S62 swap make yerself an M5
    • Blower kits
    • Nitrous
    2003 M3CicM6 TiAg
    2002 540iT Sport Vortech S/C 6MT LSD TiAg
    2008 Audi A3 2.0T DSG (the daily beater)
    2014 BMW X1 xDrive28i (wifemobile)

    Former:

    1985 MB Euro graymarket 300SL
    1995.5 Audi S6 Avant (utility/winter billetturbobattlewagen)


  22. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
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    '97 540i/6, '97 328i
    Wait, why not build yourself a turbo kit?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Whoops, obviously I didn't really read the thread, I see you've already covered the nonsensical-ness of the turbo kit idea... Lol

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