Dealer Trade In - Are They Fair

[Tommm]

I bought the Cayman S my friend traded in. Saturday at breakfast my friend told me he traded his 987 Cayman S with 38k miles in and bought a 18 Cayman S. Both have the proper three pedals.

When I texted my wife he traded it in, she texted back buy it and sell the white car.

The dealer without looking at the car (it was home under the cover) offered me a little under 13,000 with the sales tax benefit.

It is getting ready for tires, 2000 with 63,050 miles and is in pretty awesome shape. I got a few concourse ribbons. Only modifications are a Billy Boat cat back, infinity speakers (same size).

How much more do you think I will get if I sell it privately? I have the garage space, my 128i will survive outside. I have a few days until I pick up the Cayman to make a decision.

Here are pictures https://photos.shutterfly.com/story_...6a/10215540746

Thanks

[cngizbleevng]

I would think you could easily get 17k for it privately.

[z3forlife]

If they're offering almost 13k then you know they're going to list it at 16-17k

[BimmerBreaker]

Cayman? More like Lameman

[zellamay]

If you make a deal with a dealer, you are getting less and paying more. Otherwise, they would not make a deal with you. If they offered me a brand new Cayman for my 98 Z3M I wouldn't do it because I know that somehow I would be getting screwed. I don't have to know how, because by definition entering into a deal with a dealer means I'm getting screwed. So, could you get that Cayman for less someplace else? Yes. Could you sell your Z3M for more someplace else? Yes.

[Mr Bingley]

What a shame you didn't know your friend was trading the Cayman in--you could have bought it from him for his trade value, and sold yours for private party value--for a net swing of likely $10k-$15K. Private party value is higher than dealer trade, so the $13k they offered you is the lowest you will get. Don't forget that if the dealer knows you are trading a car in, they will just negotiate that much less on the car you're buying, and you end up basically giving them your car on that account (as no doubt your friend did)--they build a lot of negotiating room into their pricing with secret dealer incentives from the manufacturers and such. If you must have that Cayman, have your friend tell you what he got for it in trade, and buy it from the dealer without trading yours in for as close to their cost as possible--do it late in the day on the 2nd or 3rd to last day of the month for a cash deal (no financing) and you'll probably get away with it--they need to meet monthly sales quotas and get panicky about that time--give them a $500 profit for cleaning it and filling the tank--that's all they'll get at auction anyway. Sell your car privately (or better, keep it and don't buy the Porsche).

[Tommm]

I knewe what my friend got in trade. I added the tax savings, so I knew what I would have had to give him to buy it had he told me.

I negotiated the deal, shook hands, and then mentioned the M. The dealer did some work to the car, and is putting on new rubber. I paid about the same because the dealer has the sales tax as profit, and my friend who bought the Porsche and a Jaguar from the salesman was with me.

I will find out if the market is 16 grand. I put it in the classifieds, and will take pictures tomorrow, after the tax deadline.

The worst that could happen is I sell it to Carmax. Ugh

[jclausen]

No the dealer is not fair, it's the dealer remember.

[sleepy740]

Dealer's will usually give the wholesale price for a trade in, sometimes may try to undercut that by a couple thousand dollars. Most dealers use a few different internet websites/applications which give them "live time" pricing, based off of regional and national auction prices. Keep in mind that since most dealers are using the same computer programs, you are less likely to get "taken for a ride", and have more negotiation pull in getting more money for you trade.

Also, you may be getting less if you trade in versus if you sell privately, however keep in mind that in most states you get a tax credit toward the purchase of another car at the same facility, and you don't have to deal with tire kickers.

So in all honesty, yes, 99% of the time you will be getting less cash for your car if you trade it in, however don't forget the tax benefits.

[Jamesons Viggen]

I think thats a very fair offer for dealer trade. You always make more selling privately. But time and hassle, you pay something for convenience. So $13k the easy way or putting in effort for $15-16k. If he told you $10, yeah, go to take a walk.

[Tommm]

know what my friend got on his trade. whether they overcharged him on the new car, and boosted the trade I wont know for sure. What I do know is six Porsche owners were sitting at my table with about thirty Porsche owners in the back room of the restaurant for our monthly breakfast.

He told me what he got before tax, and what i worked out to after tax. Even if his math was off, that would have been my price. When all is done, I paid two grand more than that, and got a detail, brake flush, fresh oil, new horns, some other nonsense and new tires. I also spoke with Cayman owners before leaving breakfast and going to the dealer. I knew what they paid a few years ago, and what they would take for their car. Was I as armed as I wanted to be? No. Did I know what a very fair to good number was? Yes! I also knew i wasnt paying the asking price.

My buddy who I own the DE 944S, the prior owner and I headed to the dealer after breakfast. We met his salesman in the indoor warehouse where the Cayman was the cheapest car there. My buddy dropped about $150,000 with the salesman in the last few months, and I asked for the best price, lets not nickel and dime. Salesman disappears and a saleswoman with a customer starts opening and closing doors, hood, trunk, etc of "my" car. She says give her proof of insurance and they will take it for a drive. Is he a plant? I doubt it, and the three of us knew he was going to buy the car from the look he had. Bad poker face.

Salesman brings us to his desk and we start with the numbers. He comes down $1,000 on an 28k car. I tell him to knock just under $400 off so we have three zeros. He leaves, she comes to his desk as he is walking back and tells us the guy wants to take the car to his wife, what am I doing. I say I plan on buying it. Still, not knowing if I got my "$400 victory".

Got my victory, knocked abut 5% off the asking price, and signed the papers. Did i overpay? I would have pushed for $1,000 if that guy wasn't there. If I add $1,000 for tires, $1,000 for the detail and work (salesman said the work was $1,600) I paid what i would have if my buddy sold it to me, so i didnt get screwed too bad.

After I committed, I pulled out a check, and caled my wife to get the VIN of the M, and get the trade in offer. I may bring it Thursday when I pickup the car and see what they will give me so i know the floor. But, from what is said here, 13,000 is a legit floor (one of the guides lists it at about 7,000 - not happening).

I put it in the classifieds here at $16,000. I need it gone. I love the car, but when I texted my wife that he traded the car in she texted back buy it and sell the white car. About as perfect a wife as any guy, especially a car guy can ask for!

Sorry for the length. That's my story, and I'm sticking with it. If you know someone looking, send them my way. Thanks for the reassurance that 13 is below market. I dont know the market for a M or a Cayman. Well maybe I do for the Cayman. I paid less than any with similar miles on Autorader.

[zellamay]

I know what my friend got on his trade. whether they overcharged him on the new car, and boosted the trade I wont know for sure. What I do know is six Porsche owners were sitting at my table with about thirty Porsche owners in the back room of the restaurant for our monthly breakfast.

He told me what he got before tax, and what i worked out to after tax. Even if his math was off, that would have been my price. When all is done, I paid two grand more than that, and got a detail, brake flush, fresh oil, new horns, some other nonsense and new tires. I also spoke with Cayman owners before leaving breakfast and going to the dealer. I knew what they paid a few years ago, and what they would take for their car. Was I as armed as I wanted to be? No. Did I know what a very fair to good number was? Yes! I also knew i wasnt paying the asking price.

My buddy who I own the DE 944S, the prior owner and I headed to the dealer after breakfast. We met his salesman in the indoor warehouse where the Cayman was the cheapest car there. My buddy dropped about $150,000 with the salesman in the last few months, and I asked for the best price, lets not nickel and dime. Salesman disappears and a saleswoman with a customer starts opening and closing doors, hood, trunk, etc of "my" car. She says give her proof of insurance and they will take it for a drive. Is he a plant? I doubt it, and the three of us knew he was going to buy the car from the look he had. Bad poker face.

Salesman brings us to his desk and we start with the numbers. He comes down $1,000 on an 28k car. I tell him to knock just under $400 off so we have three zeros. He leaves, she comes to his desk as he is walking back and tells us the guy wants to take the car to his wife, what am I doing. I say I plan on buying it. Still, not knowing if I got my "$400 victory".

Got my victory, knocked abut 5% off the asking price, and signed the papers. Did i overpay? I would have pushed for $1,000 if that guy wasn't there. If I add $1,000 for tires, $1,000 for the detail and work (salesman said the work was $1,600) I paid what i would have if my buddy sold it to me, so i didnt get screwed too bad.

After I committed, I pulled out a check, and caled my wife to get the VIN of the M, and get the trade in offer. I may bring it Thursday when I pickup the car and see what they will give me so i know the floor. But, from what is said here, 13,000 is a legit floor (one of the guides lists it at about 7,000 - not happening).

I put it in the classifieds here at $16,000. I need it gone. I love the car, but when I texted my wife that he traded the car in she texted back buy it and sell the white car. About as perfect a wife as any guy, especially a car guy can ask for!

Sorry for the length. That's my story, and I'm sticking with it. If you know someone looking, send them my way. Thanks for the reassurance that 13 is below market. I dont know the market for a M or a Cayman. Well maybe I do for the Cayman. I paid less than any with similar miles on Autorader.

I am cynical, I know. I would guess there was no other buyer. But it seems you're happy with the deal, so enjoy!

[BimmerBreaker]

I am cynical, I know. I would guess there was no other buyer. But it seems you're happy with the deal, so enjoy!

As someone who worked for years at a dealership, I'm inclined to agree.

But as long as you are happy with the purchase that is all that matters

[Tommm]

I am cynical, I know. I would guess there was no other buyer. But it seems you're happy with the deal, so enjoy!

As someone who worked for years at a dealership, I'm inclined to agree.

But as long as you are happy with the purchase that is all that matters

Then I overpaid $600 because i wasnt going to get more than that off. Seems like a lot of work considering all the other factors. And Im not happy if i paid even a nickel more than i should!

So the dealership you worked at paid people to show interest, test drive, etc cars someone else was looking at to put not so subtle pressure on them? I plan on telling the story at the next breakfast, and at the next DE, and AutoX. There are two Porsche dealers in Denver, the next closest are some 60 miles south and 60 miles north. I better not hear others say they had a similar experience happen at that dealership, because if i do, i will blab it to everyone in the club that I meet, and post it on the club's facebook page. That should piss them off more than the $600 i overspent.

[Tommm]

Now I am pissed. My buddy gave them the folder with his receipts. He asked for it back when we were doing the deal. Salesman promised he would have it. They told him they destroyed it. I put a value on that folder. Now I have to spend time asking my friend to make a few calls and try to reconstruct it.

[zellamay]

Then I overpaid $600 because i wasnt going to get more than that off. Seems like a lot of work considering all the other factors. And Im not happy if i paid even a nickel more than i should!

So the dealership you worked at paid people to show interest, test drive, etc cars someone else was looking at to put not so subtle pressure on them? I plan on telling the story at the next breakfast, and at the next DE, and AutoX. There are two Porsche dealers in Denver, the next closest are some 60 miles south and 60 miles north. I better not hear others say they had a similar experience happen at that dealership, because if i do, i will blab it to everyone in the club that I meet, and post it on the club's facebook page. That should piss them off more than the $600 i overspent.

I wouldn't put a lot of energy in this. It's like getting angry because people are greedy, or because politicians are bought by big-money, or the world is the way it is. Car dealers were the way they are long before you came along, and will be that way after you tell "everyone" about them. Every person you tell has heard that story before. There's another problem in telling everyone about the dealer you got the car from. That is the tendency to think it's THAT dealer, and that telling on him will have some effect. It's not him, it's all of them. So, if you avoid him and go to another dealer next time, the same thing will happen again. The only way to have an effect is to never deal with any of them. ... I say: accept what happened, that it comes with the territory, and enjoy your new car.

[Tommm]

That's assuming the guy was a plant. Three of us thought he was going to buy it. Maybe he is a good actor. If i thought it was a scam I would have called the bluff.

[cngizbleevng]

I would have said to the salesman, "It looks like that guy really wants the car, I'll let him have it". Then see what happens with the 'customer'.

[Tommm]

I would have said to the salesman, "It looks like that guy really wants the car, I'll let him have it". Then see what happens with the 'customer'.

And if the three of us old farts were correct and he was a customer? Easy to be an armchair quarterback.

Maybe, instead, i should have said "my salesman just went to your manager with my offer of X, and if he and accepted it, tell your customer I just knocked the price down 5% of the asking price. If this guy really wants the car, let him offer a buck more and you can sell it to him."

I doubt you are that paranoid about being screwed by the dealer and would have said that.

[Tommm]

I think thats a very fair offer for dealer trade. You always make more selling privately. But time and hassle, you pay something for convenience. So $13k the easy way or putting in effort for $15-16k. If he told you $10, yeah, go to take a walk.

This is exactly what I was thinking. 13 is about as much as they will give me, which is fair, and the original part of this post. The choice is mine to try to get the extra few grand.

BTW, I showed up in my Volvo S80, one buddy in his 968, and the prior owner in his three day old Cayman S. They had no idea I have three BMWs and half another Porsche in my stable until after we shook hands on the price.

[cngizbleevng]

And if the three of us old farts were correct and he was a customer? Easy to be an armchair quarterback.

Maybe, instead, i should have said "my salesman just went to your manager with my offer of X, and if he and accepted it, tell your customer I just knocked the price down 5% of the asking price. If this guy really wants the car, let him offer a buck more and you can sell it to him."

I doubt you are that paranoid about being screwed by the dealer and would have said that.

Not paranoid at all. I just realize that as a buyer, I'm the one in control. There are plenty of other Caymans out there, as long as I'm not impatient.

[Tommm]

Not paranoid at all. I just realize that as a buyer, I'm the one in control. There are plenty of other Caymans out there, as long as I'm not impatient.

Now I am beginning to regret i started this thread.

Do you have a logical reason for telling the sales team to screw off as they are agreeing to your offer? Is that control, or someone out of control? Why would I walk into a store with two other people (three professionals with a few letters after their names on a saturday), waste the salesman's time, only to tell him to screw off when he accepted my offer? What would i have gained being a jackass?

I said a few posts above that i ended up paying the same or a few hundred less than if i bought it before he traded it in. If the dealership plays shenanigans with plants, the club will find out, or will have found out by now. This isn't a place selling a payment to the unwary. People who write checks for five, six, and seven figures didnt get that money by being suckered.

I wonder what the monthly payment is on the million dollar 918 that was on the floor.

[cngizbleevng]

...I asked for the best price, lets not nickel and dime. Salesman disappears and a saleswoman with a customer starts opening and closing doors, hood, trunk, etc of "my" car. She says give her proof of insurance and they will take it for a drive. Is he a plant? I doubt it, and the three of us knew he was going to buy the car from the look he had. Bad poker face....

If he were a plant, I'd expect him to feign interest in the car. A bad poker face would make perfect sense.

...That's assuming the guy was a plant. Three of us thought he was going to buy it. Maybe he is a good actor. If i thought it was a scam I would have called the bluff...

And when I suggested calling their bluff you got pissed off.

...Why would I walk into a store with two other people (three professionals with a few letters after their names on a saturday), waste the salesman's time, only to tell him to screw off when he accepted my offer?

Obviously if they accepted your offer then you don't tell them to "screw off", and the fact there's another guy looking at the car means nothing. But if they're jerking you around with a fake customer, I'd call their bluff--you'd find out the truth pretty quick if the customer all of a sudden lost interest in the car.

[Naresh L]

I would never in a Million years buy a first gen Cayman without a bore-scope to check the cylinder walls. Cylinders #5 and #6 they wear. Driver Side. Check out Rennlist. Ive personally replaced 3 engines on the Cayman/Boxster. Probably another 6 from the 996/997 generation for blown up IMS Bearings or Cylinder liner wear. Its a must for these cars, once it starts wearing its just a matter of time.

[Tommm]

If he were a plant, I'd expect him to feign interest in the car. A bad poker face would make perfect sense.



And when I suggested calling their bluff you got pissed off.



Obviously if they accepted your offer then you don't tell them to "screw off", and the fact there's another guy looking at the car means nothing. But if they're jerking you around with a fake customer, I'd call their bluff--you'd find out the truth pretty quick if the customer all of a sudden lost interest in the car.

Now you are backpedaling. Was the guy a plant? You seem convinced, so I must have gotten ripped off. And what if he was a real customer? Did you miss the part about it being my friends car, a car that I drove on the street and track? A car that I know the history ot. The history that the dealer shredded?

Mods please delete or lock this thread. Thanks to all with constructive thoughts.