Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 27

Thread: STOCK SPECS or Better

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Indio, Ca
    Posts
    85
    My Cars
    1999 BMW M3 Convertible

    STOCK SPECS or Better

    I'm resurrecting a 1999 e36 m3 vert wanting a more or less original feel for the street with an eye toward reliability and no-fuss longevity.

    As I read various posts from you guys I'm confused about upgrades geared to the track vs the street, to performance rather than replicating the stock new car feeling.

    For example, I just put oem sachs SHOCKS in the rear (with ground control mounts for easier convertible access) and wonder if there's a compatible front end setup that would offer improvement over the oem approach???

    I don't think I need adjustable konis or bilsteins, or a front sway bar, or cold air intake, or a performance exhaust, etc but am open to your input. Where will I get the most tangible improvement over a strict oem approach?

    What are other critical suspension components that would benefit from other than an oem aporoach?

    Similarly, entry level brembo brakes vs zimmerman or pagid? Still struggling with the headlight solution: stock ZKW vs tricked out DEPOS?

    Some things seem to be a no-brainer: aluminum radiator, Stewart water pump, etc. but what are other areas where a newer design aftermarket part would give me a bigger bang for my buck?

    And are there areas where a cheaper than oem part won't hurt me?

    Are there any guru mentors here in the Palm desert area? Thanks from an old-man newbie in southern cal.










    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    996
    My Cars
    E36 M, E32 740i/6, 997 S
    There are no places in the suspension where you really need something aftermarket other than the rear shock mounts which are only necessary if you want to be able to remove the shocks without disassembling parts of the trunk. I would actually skip the aluminum radiator and get an OE Z3 M S54 radiator. It's cheaper, offers increased cooling capacity, and the fit is OE quality aka far superior to most aluminum options.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    1,433
    My Cars
    1999 BMW M3 Coupe
    BBK's are a waste of money for the street.

    I recommend keeping the front suspension stock. It's fine for the street. I'd recommend everything in the suspension stay OEM, though if you do RTAB's you should throw in some limiters.

    Stewart pump is a good upgrade. Should also replace the thermostat and housing when you do that. Radiator can really stay OEM, no need for aluminum unless you want to spend the money. A newer OEM radiator with a neck that won't crack or the Z3 radiator both work.
    1999 M3/2/5 - Titanium Silver - Track/Weekend Toy


  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    washington dc
    Posts
    8,679
    My Cars
    Avus Cosmos Calypso!
    stock boge struts are fine if you don't want to get Bilstein HD, Koni strt or sports. Replace all your ball joints and bushings, and update cooling system. Rtab limiters, delring center diff bushing (m12 if auto m14 if manual and going for more power). Rogue or e21 trans mounts with enforcers. As for radiator the stock one is as good as the z3m one since there is a larger surface area for air flow. The z3m one is shorter but thicker. It's probably a wash in terms of cooling, but you will have more room to work on stuff like pulleys with the stock radiator. Aluminum is hit or miss. Fit is not great. Stock Behr units need to be replaced every 10 years/100k miles along with hoses. Stewart is a good idea along with an aluminum tstat housing.

    You can think about a larger front sway bar, short shifter if not auto, and maybe a catback for better sound/less weight.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Riverside, CA
    Posts
    345
    My Cars
    98' M3/4/5, 85' 944
    The brake upgrades you mentioned i think are a waste of money for a street car. Im running stock replacement Centric c-tek rotors and good stop tech (centrics higher end) pads front and rear and my car sees track and so far its fine. Just under $200 for both front and rear for everything from rockauto.

    I would def do cooling upgrades if you dont go aftermarket replace everything stock now and it should last a while. I have a mishimoto aluminum radiator and it fits perfect not sure what ones these guys are using that say they dont.

    A lot of stuff that is OEM BMW is actually made by another company and the difference is one says bmw the other does not. Sites like Pelican Parts will usually list parts as "OEM Supplier" that are and you can save a lot of cash usually. Stay away from anything made by "Uro Parts" on any critical components.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    1,433
    My Cars
    1999 BMW M3 Coupe
    You'll learn pretty quickly which OEM's are quality and which are crap. Price usually makes it pretty obvious, but:

    $$$$ - Genuine BMW (in many cases just a BMW-stamped part from one of the real OEM's immediately below)
    $$$ - Original European OEM for BMW (Lemforder, Mahle, Behr, Bosch, Valeo, FAG, ZF, Sachs, and a few others - usually a good idea to buy these over "Genuine BMW", no difference in quality)
    $ - Overseas knock-off "OEM" (URO and anything else at a comparable price point - only use if no other option)

    Then there's also the aftermarket suppliers, which can be all over the place price-wise. Meyle is a good example, and there's also performance parts shops like bimmerworld, ECS, Turner, Rogue, Vorshlag, and so forth. Quality is generally good, but some are definitely better than others. You generally get what you pay for here.
    Last edited by TostitoBandito; 03-28-2018 at 06:35 PM.
    1999 M3/2/5 - Titanium Silver - Track/Weekend Toy


  7. #7
    RRSperry's Avatar
    RRSperry is offline Senior Moment Member BMW E36 M3 Expert
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Eldersburg, Md
    Posts
    12,368
    My Cars
    95 ///M3sc, '21 C8 HTC
    Since it's a vert, you aren't going to be tracking it, so you can eliminate a lot of "because race car" parts...lol

    The stock suspension is fine. It's probably way better than you are. I highly recommend you inspect all the bushings, mounts, and ball joints. If you don't know what you are doing, pay someone that does. There are a lot of them. (front lower control arm bushings and joints, Strut mounts, rear lowercontrol arm bush, diff bush, rear ball joints, rear subframe bushes, anti roll bar bushings and mounting tabs. ) It wouldn't be a bad idea to do a complete inspection 2 if you don't know when it was done.

    Yes the stock cooling system is a 100K mile replace ment item, that isn't just the radiator and water pump. There's the expansion tank and pressure car, and a some very expensive hoses that live under the intake manifold. I'd roll the dice and leave them alone until you have to do them. (unless you have to pull the intake off anyway...) There's nothing wrong with a BMW radiator, it's just a 100K mile part. You can even buy the Z3M (S54) 3 row radiator and be fine for a long time. I'd recommend a Stewart water pump. I haven't had a problem with mine. Avoid cheap parts.

    If you have ZKW lights, they are not stock. ZKW is a brand of Euro spec lights, that that uses a H1 bulb, they have the Euro beam pattern and cutoff. They are better than the US's DOT plastic lens 9005/6 light. Depo is a cheap copy of a copy of the Euro light. Best avoided unless you are really cheap and broke. If your light have 3 little nubbins on the lens, they are the stock DOT lights, None of the euro lights have the DOT aiming nubs on them.
    No matter where you go, there you are...

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Indio, Ca
    Posts
    85
    My Cars
    1999 BMW M3 Convertible
    Quote Originally Posted by TostitoBandito View Post
    BBK's are a waste of money for the street.

    I recommend keeping the front suspension stock. It's fine for the street. I'd recommend everything in the suspension stay OEM, though if you do RTAB's you should throw in some limiters.

    Stewart pump is a good upgrade. Should also replace the thermostat and housing when you do that. Radiator can really stay OEM, no need for aluminum unless you want to spend the money. A newer OEM radiator with a neck that won't crack or the Z3 radiator both work.
    What brand would you recommend for RTAB LIMITERS? IS LEMFOEORDER a safe brand for many of these suspension parts?

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    1,433
    My Cars
    1999 BMW M3 Coupe
    I just installed Lemforder RTAB's along with the Vorshlag limiters. I'd go with Lemforder for basically any OEM bushing or ball joint.
    1999 M3/2/5 - Titanium Silver - Track/Weekend Toy


  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Indio, Ca
    Posts
    85
    My Cars
    1999 BMW M3 Convertible
    Quote Originally Posted by RRSperry View Post
    Since it's a vert, you aren't going to be tracking it, so you can eliminate a lot of "because race car" parts...lol

    The stock suspension is fine. It's probably way better than you are. I highly recommend you inspect all the bushings, mounts, and ball joints. If you don't know what you are doing, pay someone that does. There are a lot of them. (front lower control arm bushings and joints, Strut mounts, rear lowercontrol arm bush, diff bush, rear ball joints, rear subframe bushes, anti roll bar bushings and mounting tabs. ) It wouldn't be a bad idea to do a complete inspection 2 if you don't know when it was done.

    Yes the stock cooling system is a 100K mile replace ment item, that isn't just the radiator and water pump. There's the expansion tank and pressure car, and a some very expensive hoses that live under the intake manifold. I'd roll the dice and leave them alone until you have to do them. (unless you have to pull the intake off anyway...) There's nothing wrong with a BMW radiator, it's just a 100K mile part. You can even buy the Z3M (S54) 3 row radiator and be fine for a long time. I'd recommend a Stewart water pump. I haven't had a problem with mine. Avoid cheap parts.

    If you have ZKW lights, they are not stock. ZKW is a brand of Euro spec lights, that that uses a H1 bulb, they have the Euro beam pattern and cutoff. They are better than the US's DOT plastic lens 9005/6 light. Depo is a cheap copy of a copy of the Euro light. Best avoided unless you are really cheap and broke. If your light have 3 little nubbins on the lens, they are the stock DOT lights, None of the euro lights have the DOT aiming nubs on them.
    If I order ZKW LIGHTS is the HID option a good choice? If So, 35 or 45w? I assume these are upgrades for the lowbeam, correct? Is bi-xenon the state of the art- and is that also a lowbeam upgrade. I live in a well-lit urban area and don't do a lot of night driving other than on road trips. What do YOU think of Angel eyes?

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Indio, Ca
    Posts
    85
    My Cars
    1999 BMW M3 Convertible
    Quote Originally Posted by TostitoBandito View Post
    I just installed Lemforder RTAB's along with the Vorshlag limiters. I'd go with Lemforder for basically any OEM bushing or ball joint.
    Thanks tostito...I appreciate all your timely input

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Indio, Ca
    Posts
    85
    My Cars
    1999 BMW M3 Convertible
    I need a new ALTERNATOR for my 99 M3 vert:

    Is it true that the 140 bosch vs valeo are not inter-changeable?

    With my vin# is there a way to know which is in my car? And which of the two tensioner/pulley styles I have??

    My car is the shop and sammy...he does not speaka too good the english

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Rigel 7
    Posts
    8,711
    My Cars
    M3, 850i, E30T, E55T
    In case you're not aware, if you plug your VIN into realoem.com, it will tell you which alternator/tensioner setup you have with fairly good accuracy. Then you can double-check with a quick look in the engine bay at the tensioner setup.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Sunny Seattle
    Posts
    60
    My Cars
    1998 BMW M3 Sedan
    Quote Originally Posted by jprottas View Post
    If I order ZKW LIGHTS is the HID option a good choice? If So, 35 or 45w? I assume these are upgrades for the lowbeam, correct? Is bi-xenon the state of the art- and is that also a lowbeam upgrade. I live in a well-lit urban area and don't do a lot of night driving other than on road trips. What do YOU think of Angel eyes?
    Are you looking at ECS or Turner or someone else? I'm interested in the ZKW and adding new HID projectors. I see that ECS has a package that you can put together to include the HID kit and adapter but was looking for some feedback before I purchased them. I've heard good and bad from ECS and most likely could order everything separately and put it together myself.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Indio, Ca
    Posts
    85
    My Cars
    1999 BMW M3 Convertible
    Quote Originally Posted by tfolks206 View Post
    Are you looking at ECS or Turner or someone else? I'm interested in the ZKW and adding new HID projectors. I see that ECS has a package that you can put together to include the HID kit and adapter but was looking for some feedback before I purchased them. I've heard good and bad from ECS and most likely could order everything separately and put it together myself.
    I've been looking at umnitza...they have lots of options but not sure if they sell individual parts. I know their price on the stock zkw is $499

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

  16. #16
    RRSperry's Avatar
    RRSperry is offline Senior Moment Member BMW E36 M3 Expert
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Eldersburg, Md
    Posts
    12,368
    My Cars
    95 ///M3sc, '21 C8 HTC
    You probably shouldn't just put HID in the ZKW's. The "correct way" is to install HID projectors in the housings. (preferably Bi-xenon)

    So if you're going to buy ZKW's, in for a penny, in for a pound....

    As for bushings, Lemforder is (was) the OE supplier for BMW suspension stuff. Thier parts are always a good choice. (especially front lower control arms, ball joints...)

    I used Ground Control for Rtab limiters. They all probably work.

    As for alternators, they both are direct fit. I think the issue is the pulley. (use google search). IIRC I've saw on Ebay, a shop in Cali that was selling reman 140A Bosch units for about $120?
    No matter where you go, there you are...

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Indio, Ca
    Posts
    85
    My Cars
    1999 BMW M3 Convertible
    Quote Originally Posted by jprottas View Post
    Thanks tostito...I appreciate all your timely input

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
    I see you've just completed an extensive suspension overhaul. Great job!
    Unfortunately I dont have the experience or the workspace for DIY so am using a Sunday mechanic.
    He will be replacing a Stewart water pump, final stage pin, Bosch alternator. Front boge struts and Zimmerman brakes next week.
    What suspension parts can be more or less easily replaced while he's doing the above work?
    Eventually I would like to do a more complete overhaul but for now just want somewhat improved handling. Thanks tostito - you've been a very helpful resource and I appreciate your input. Jeff in Indio

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    1,433
    My Cars
    1999 BMW M3 Coupe
    If you're doing the front struts, I guess it isn't tons more work to drop the front control arms if you want to replace the arms or ball joints. Could also do FCAB's at the same time if needed. There isn't much else I'd recommend for the front suspension at that time. Motor mounts could be done I guess if there's a need.

    You should also look at doing the thermostat and housing and replacing your belts when the water pump is being done. Easy to do at the same time. Same deal if any coolant hoses need to be replaced.
    1999 M3/2/5 - Titanium Silver - Track/Weekend Toy


  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Indio, Ca
    Posts
    85
    My Cars
    1999 BMW M3 Convertible
    Quote Originally Posted by RRSperry View Post
    You probably shouldn't just put HID in the ZKW's. The "correct way" is to install HID projectors in the housings. (preferably Bi-xenon)

    So if you're going to buy ZKW's, in for a penny, in for a pound....

    As for bushings, Lemforder is (was) the OE supplier for BMW suspension stuff. Thier parts are always a good choice. (especially front lower control arms, ball joints...)

    I used Ground Control for Rtab limiters. They all probably work.

    As for alternators, they both are direct fit. I think the issue is the pulley. (use google search). IIRC I've saw on Ebay, a shop in Cali that was selling reman 140A Bosch units for about $120?
    Per your suggestion I ordered the 140a bosch alternator from ace alternator in southern California for $114 , saving $100+. Hoping it works out.

    From your comment above you dont thi k this umnitza auction is the best way to go: https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F182214074930

    Finally, do stainless brake lines provide noticeable improvement?


    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Indio, Ca
    Posts
    85
    My Cars
    1999 BMW M3 Convertible
    Also looking for a OEM brake recommendations:

    Rotors: Pagid vs Meyle vs Bosch vs Zimmerman

    Corresponding street-only pads

    Sensors: Bowa Pex Pagid

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    1,433
    My Cars
    1999 BMW M3 Coupe
    Absolutely nothing wrong with the OEM BMW brake pads. They last a long time and are fine for the street. There's obviously tons of aftermarket options as well, at varying degrees of aggressiveness. The OEM pads will have the best cold bite, the least noise, and will probably last the longest.

    For rotors, get blanks (not slotted or drilled). Both Zimmerman and Meyle are fine. Pagid is probably fine too, though I know less about their rotors and more about their pads. They all make quality stuff, and there likely isn't much difference in those $40-60 rotors. They'll all be at least as good as the "Genuine BMW" blanks for like a quarter of the ridiculous price. I don't recommend slotted rotors for street-only cars because they can add extra noise, and drilled rotors are pointless except for looks and they can crack.

    Steel brake lines are up to you, but it's not a big deal to do them if you're already planning on flushing your brake fluid or rebuilding calipers. The only tricky part can be seized connectors to the hard lines. One of mine can now only be turned by vise grips because it got so mangled breaking it loose. As for any noticeable difference, I doubt it since you're also replacing fluid and bleeding the system at the same time, and all three of those things probably contribute a bit to feel. As do the new pads and rotors. Obviously, if your existing lines are damaged or compromised in any way and need to be replaced, you may as well put in steel lines. If your lines are ok, then there's no harm in leaving them alone.

    If you're going to be disconnecting brake lines, I strongly suggest rebuilding the calipers at the same time, or at least replacing the guide pins/bushings with OEM parts. It's not that bad to do (plenty of guides online), and will save you massive headaches involving seized calipers in the future. Especially recommended if the brake fluid hasn't been changed in a LONG time (probably has high water content) or if you live someplace prone to rust. Gives you a chance to get everything nice and clean before putting back on with your new pads and rotors as well.
    Last edited by TostitoBandito; 04-07-2018 at 01:17 AM.
    1999 M3/2/5 - Titanium Silver - Track/Weekend Toy


  22. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Riverside, CA
    Posts
    345
    My Cars
    98' M3/4/5, 85' 944
    for blank rotors im tellin you centric c-teks from rockauto. i am running them on 3 cars now all three have been on a track none have warped. about $20-25 each they are so cheap i dont turn them just buy a new set when the pads go. you can spend more but why? buy some decent pads and youre gold. most of this stuff is marketing.....cheapo rotors with drilled holes people think are better...people think ceramic pads are better (they arent) etc

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Indio, Ca
    Posts
    85
    My Cars
    1999 BMW M3 Convertible
    Will a strut tower brace like this from ECS make a noticeable difference or is it mostly for show?

    https://www.ecstuning.com/b-ecs-part...+Abandonment+2


    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    1,433
    My Cars
    1999 BMW M3 Coupe
    Quote Originally Posted by jprottas View Post
    Will a strut tower brace like this from ECS make a noticeable difference or is it mostly for show?

    https://www.ecstuning.com/b-ecs-part...+Abandonment+2


    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
    They are mostly for show. As a first upgrade, the x-brace underneath does far more. I'm not sure about this specific brace from ECS, but I know that generally the ones that actually do anything are solid without hinges of any kind. I think Rogue makes one like that, along with many others I'm sure.
    1999 M3/2/5 - Titanium Silver - Track/Weekend Toy


  25. #25
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    16,710
    My Cars
    DE-spec E36 328i/M3 cab
    Any strut that has a hinge in the exact plane you are trying to stiffen up, is just for show. Doesn't matter what brand name is on it (*cough* Dinan *cough*). No brand is going to defy the law of physics.

    Solid or if there is a joint, don't go for a hinge.
    1998 BMW M3 3.2 Cabrio • Alpinweiί III on Schwarz • German spec • 1 of 12
    SMG • SRA • PDC • AUC • OBC • GSM • HK • UURS • IHKA • FGR • MFL

    IG:
    https://www.instagram.com/iflok/



Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. WTB: E36 Stock Headlights or better yet, Euro Ellipsoids.
    By ///Maniac in forum BMW Parts Wanted
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 12-13-2015, 02:03 PM
  2. stock exhaust...or custom with a smaller diameter...which is better???
    By rahrah in forum New York / New Jersey / Connecticut
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 04-10-2011, 11:29 PM
  3. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08-05-2009, 09:33 PM
  4. Ok does stock really look better or am I crazy?
    By Jcbe34 in forum 1988 - 1996 (E34)
    Replies: 61
    Last Post: 07-22-2008, 06:50 PM
  5. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 06-29-2008, 10:03 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •