kingpin differences

[aeronaut]

I know I've seen this described somewhere, but couldn't find...

(At least) 3 kingpin types for E36's, 2 for M3 and 1 (maybe more?) for all other E36's.
Using part #'s for right kingpins as an example below, anyone have the differences?

M3
95 S50 M3: 31212227358
96-99 S52 M3: 31212227908

Non M
All: 31211092080

[aeronaut]

Ok, found a fairly informative thread here:
https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...E36-M3-spindle

[bluptgm3]

Ya, three King Pins different Part Numbers L/R.
The change in geometry in the 1996+M3 causes a reduction in the top-of-tire gap to strut. This axle angle change drove a strut positional change in the Guide Support, as result the top-of-strut moved outboard.
It is likely standard E36 and 1995M3 share the same King Pin/spindle geometry, though 1995M3 (and 1996+M3) has a different interface for the E34M5 brake caliper carrier bracket. These and other parts are shared with the Z3 range, though the Z3“M” models use the 1996+M3 components - spindle, FLCA, FLCAB, and Guide Support.

Additionally, three FLCAs, three FLCABushings, and three different Guide Supports/bearing plates. None should be mixed and matched. Though many claim that Meyle E36 HD FLCAs + the 1995M3 offset FLCABs is an acceptable substitute for the unique 1996+M3 components. These with the 1996+M3 King Pins on a 1995M3 can yield more static negative camber, using the 1996+M3 Guide Supports swapped LR/RL or camber plates.

1995M3 and 1996+M3 FLCAs both feature solid ball joints, though different geometry. 1996+M3 got new King Pins, FLCAs, a nearly solid but centered FLCAB and revised Guide Support geometry. These changes all yield more King Pin inclination at steering full lock.
All other E36 FLCAs have a rubber Isolated outer ball joint. Standard E36 FLCAs and the 1995M3 FLCAs share the same geometry with E30 FLCA. 1995M3 uses a nearly solid FLCAB though offset to add needed caster. Internet lores says E36 FLCAs have larger BJs than the E30 to handle the added weight of the E36.

E36 up to 6/92
King Pin 31211092079 / 31211092080
FLCA 31126758513 / 31126758514
FLCAB 31129059288
Guide Support 31331139436

E36 6/92 and-on
King Pin 31211092079 / 31211092080
FLCA 31126758513 / 31126758514
FLCAB 31129059288
FLCAB M-Technic 31129064875
Guide Support 31336779613

1995M3
King Pin 31212227357 / 31212227358
FLCA 31121139789 / 31121139790
FLCAB 31129064875
Guide Support 31332228345

1996+M3
King Pin 31212227907 / 31212227908
FLCA. 31122228461 / 31122228462
FLCAB 31129069035
Guide Support 31332227897 / 31332227898

[aeronaut]

Thanks, great info!

I guess the bottom line to remember for a track only car, is the chassis's for these cars are all the same. The geometry of the front is defined by the top strut mount, the kingpin, and the LCA (including its bushing). That's really it between all the E36 models. So for a track car that has camber/caster plates, it's then the kingpin and LCA. On my 95, I use camber plates AND shims to get the camber I want, and the shims move the strut closer to the tire, just like the 96+ kingpins do.

Why am I asking all this?
I'd like to find a spare pair of kingpins to modify. 95 M's are pretty rare. 96+ M's are pretty expensive. lol

[mslevin]

I feel like we're working on really similar projects right now aeronaut, you keep posting threads that answer the questions I have!

I have a 95 M3 I'm building and am going to source 96+ kingpins for the car.

Additionally, three FLCAs, three FLCABushings, and three different Guide Supports/bearing plates. None should be mixed and matched. Though many claim that Meyle E36 HD FLCAs + the 1995M3 offset FLCABs is an acceptable substitute for the unique 1996+M3 components. These with the 1996+M3 King Pins on a 1995M3 can yield more static negative camber, using the 1996+M3 Guide Supports swapped LR/RL or camber plates.

Why shouldn't they be mixed? My plan was to do exactly that: HD FLCAs and '95 offset FLCABs. My research and discussions with FCP Euro + Bimmerworld have lead me to believe its a very valid substitute for 96+ components (and at 1/3 of the price).

[aeronaut]

I feel like we're working on really similar projects right now aeronaut, you keep posting threads that answer the questions I have!

I have a 95 M3 I'm building and am going to source 96+ kingpins for the car.



Why shouldn't they be mixed? My plan was to do exactly that: HD FLCAs and '95 offset FLCABs. My research and discussions with FCP Euro + Bimmerworld have lead me to believe its a very valid substitute for 96+ components (and at 1/3 of the price).

Glad I can help, by not knowing what to do before you. lol.

My understanding was also that 96 kingpins, E36 (non M) HD LCAs, and offset LCA bushings would get you very close to 96 geometry. The main thing I want is:
- Lower kingpin replacement cost
- Increased maximum camber (without the use of shims)

I'd think with all the things we do to these cars for the track (camber/castor plates, wheel spacers coilovers), one could get a good setup mixing and matching kingpings and LCAs (among M3 parts).

[bluptgm3]

I feel like we're working on really similar projects right now aeronaut, you keep posting threads that answer the questions I have!
I have a 95 M3 I'm building and am going to source 96+ kingpins for the car.
Why shouldn't they be mixed? My plan was to do exactly that: HD FLCAs and '95 offset FLCABs. My research and discussions with FCP Euro + Bimmerworld have lead me to believe its a very valid substitute for 96+ components (and at 1/3 of the price).

Additionally, three FLCAs, three FLCABushings, and three different Guide Supports/bearing plates. None should be mixed and matched. Though many claim that Meyle E36 HD FLCAs + the 1995M3 offset FLCABs is an acceptable substitute for the unique 1996+M3 components.

I do not know the exact geometric differences, however with camber plates any minor issues (if they exist) can probably be masked/corrected.
BimmerWorld used to have a pallet full of (L & R) 1996+M3 King Pins and sell these as a ‘kit’ w/Meyle HD E36 FLCAs + 1995M3 offset FLCABs.

LOL!! IF BMW created the the same geometry with the ‘new’ King Pin, FLCA and FLCAB that replicates the E36/‘95 E36M3 FLCA geometry plus an offset FLCAB, why design a ‘new’ FLCA for the 1996+M3? Got to be more going on....

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[mslevin]

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Ahh sorry I misread that. I thought you meant "none should be matched, even though some claim..." implying they were wrong. Thanks!

[spyderg0d]

So... The strut mounts on the chassis are different from 96 on. Theres "M" parts of each. And non m parts of each. So theres 4 seperate full suspensions.. Some use same individual parts..

So the point is to make early chassis as close to late chassis systems as possible... To make late chassis as "M" as possible. What do you do when you already have "M" suspension? (With the usual mods like plates).

[aeronaut]

So... The strut mounts on the chassis are different from 96 on. Theres "M" parts of each. And non m parts of each. So theres 4 seperate full suspensions.. Some use same individual parts..

So the point is to make early chassis as close to late chassis systems as possible... To make late chassis as "M" as possible. What do you do when you already have "M" suspension? (With the usual mods like plates).

I'm not convinced 96M vs 95M is "better", but there are minor differences. Depends on what your end-state is. But past that;
Roll center correction, bump steer correction, steering quickness.

[aeronaut]

Just FYI, the whole reason I asked the original question, is that I have an MRT roll center (RC) correction kit on my 95.
But, I haven't lowered my car enough to "need" it. I expect that's a bad thing (lowering RC 30mm but not lowering CG at least as much).
There are other down sides to the MRT, or any other of these kits. There's 2mm or so clearance between the LCA and rotor, and I'd like to consider upgrading to wilwood calipers and a slightly thicker rotor. The MRT kit prevents that. (Other RC kits may, or may not, work.) There are other fixes for a brake upgrade, but all this has to work together.

But I absolutely LOVE the steering ratio improvement provided by the MRT kit. Catching quick oversteer glitches is no longer a hand over hand pray to be fast enough event. I just, correct, and keep driving. The car is so much more drivable with the quicker steering. I'm surprised by how much more fun it is, for me.
So what I really want, is the tie-rod end moved closer to the steering axis. Looking into re-welding a stock kingpin.
Hence, buying a spare set of kingpins.

[bluptgm3]

LOL!! Ya, I would like to see comparative numbers also....as the KP-to-FLCA lug got relocated in the 1996+M3 King Pin(spindle) along with revisions to FLCA/FLCAB/Guide Support redesign. Did the hole center for the Tie Rod interface move also, relative to the Tie Rod interface? Potentially that redesign closed the distance of the two center lines.
What influence does the 1996+M3 centered FLCAB have on rotation axis of the FLCA and the front roll center focal point?


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[dominator293]

Potentially unrelated but you apparently can only buy 96+ kingpins second hand now as BMW don't make them brand new. I just bought a set of `95 kingpins (which BMW still produce) from BW and shipped to Aus (set me back a small fortune) to run a BB Kit designed for an M3 on my 325i. But good timing on the conversation, I could've used this information a few months ago haha.

[bluptgm3]

Potentially unrelated but you apparently can only buy 96+ kingpins second hand now as BMW don't make them brand new. I just bought a set of `95 kingpins (which BMW still produce) from BW and shipped to Aus (set me back a small fortune) to run a BB Kit designed for an M3 on my 325i. But good timing on the conversation, I could've used this information a few months ago haha.

The 1995 M3 Spindle/King Pin has the same geometry as non-“M” or 325 Spindle/King Pin, but base E36 spindle does not accept M3 Calipers/Brackets.
Run the 1995M3 FLCAs (or Meyle HDs) and the 1995M3 Offset FLCABs.

I assume you are running camber plates?


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