Stalling, missing, shaking when cold....

[951Dreams]

I had thought I had my own thread about my issues, but I guess I've just been commenting on others threads. So I'm starting my own so I can report my progress and if I get my issues resolved. When cold my 2001 IL will stall and die if I don't give it gas right after starting. It will then miss, shake, and run like crap for about 15 mins. The colder outside it is the worse it is. My best guess at this time is that there are some gaskets that are bad, and once they warm up they are able to seal well enough again to allow it to run. Once it's warmed up it will stay running fine unless I let it sit for 8+ hours. Then it will go through the cycle again. That's why I suspect gaskets and seals over it just being able to compensate once warm. If it was just compensating then I would think it would cool enough to have the problem again after just a few hours. This takes almost 1/2 a day. Just screams shrinking gaskets to me.

I also have a number of codes that indicate vacuum issues as well. Mainly too lean on both banks, and it's maxing out it's trim to compensate on both banks. Classic vacuum codes. Per my smoking thread, I also have a bad CCV and/or OSV. I've got the fuel rail off and am getting ready to pull the intake today. The intake/TB was FULL of oil. I have got all the top side gaskets and am pulling the Valve covers and intake as we speak.

I'm currently having a little trouble with the fuel rail/electrical boxes, but I've covered it in my smoking thread so I won't repeat. I'll report back with my progress and what not later.

[951Dreams]

So, day 2 of top end reseal. It's been a total mixed bag. I got the intake off, only to find the CCV had already been done before (hex head bolts). I have the classic CCV smoking issue and my intake/TB and every vacuum line is clogged with oil! I blew air into the OSV tube, and it doesn't seem clogged, so I'm at a loss about my oil problem unless the "new" CCV has gone bad. Anyway, I'll know more once I get it running.
,
Two major issues today. First came up when I started putting the intake back together. The front intake gasket, behind the plate thingie the TB mounts to was totally toast. It was evident it had never been taken off or replaced. There was oil everywhere under that plate. Top, bottom, sides. It looked to me like that gasket was so old and useless that it was allowing even oil past it. It's the first and only gasket I've found that screamed leaking vacuum to me. So I may have found the root of my vacuum issue. On a down side, I went in my box of new parts to discover I hadn't ordered that gasket!! CRAP!!! I thought I had, but I checked my invoice and I guess I had never added it. Must have missed "add to cart" or something. A quick call to my local BMW and they will have one for me tomorrow. Gasket $16, next day delivery $15.... CRAP!!!! But at least I'll be able to get it done tomorrow...right????

No.

So about 2 hours later I'm getting ready to swap out the little rubber thingies on the 6 front valve cover screws. The ones that stay on the front bolts. I go to my valve cover gasket shipment (different vendor from the one above) because I had bought a kit that came with the gaskets and 22 of those little seals or whatever you want to call them. Only to discover they had shipped me the wrong part. Instead of 22 of those rubber thinges, I had 22 packs of 10 other gaskets. So yeah, I've got 220 gaskets that are not for our cars. No biggie I think, I'll just get with the vendor, have them fix it, and use the old ones for now. Swap the new ones in when they come....

Only I realized.... since I had new ones (I thought) I hadn't been keeping track of the old ones!!! DOUBLE CRAP!!! Once it's light, I MAY be able to find all the old ones, but I'm not holding my breath.... UUUGGHHHH!!!!

I broke the first rule of German car maintenance. Check your shipments BEFORE you start your work!!! This it totally my fault!!! I know better!!!!

I have more to report on this project, including some good ideas I came up with. But this has gotten long enough for now. At it again bright and early tomorrow.

[951Dreams]

I lucked out and BMW had the rubber valve cover washers in stock. I got it all back together and turned the key... it caught then died. Several times. Like 5. I was finally able to get it to stay running, barely. I got it to rev to 2500 a few times, then it wouldn't go above like 300 RPM's. It would idle, if shaking like a fat drunk girl at her first dance can be called idle. CEL was flashing like crazy. I got out to see if I could "see" anything, stood looking at it for like 10 seconds and then it just started running right. Smooth as silk. It's been fine since. Took like 5 mins. Pulled the codes, I was missing on 5 of 8 cylinders. Then it just automagically fixed itself and all is good.

I cleared the codes, and I've driven about 200 miles since. I've had several cold starts. No missing, no shaking, no stalling. It's been running perfect. CEL has stayed off for the first time since I've owned it. I'm about 85% sure my whole problem was the gasket between the front of the intake and the plate thing the TB mounts to. Called the front intake gasket I think. Mine was brittle and dry. It just crumbled. I suspect the fact it was covered in oil, maybe for years, to be part of it. All the gaskets on the intake and TB were covered, and the slots they mounted in were filled with oil. The gasket between the TB and that plate was not as brittle, but it was flat, I don't think it was sealing well anymore either.

I suppose it could have been the CCV also. And it's gasket was kinda shot as well. I'll never know for sure, since I did them all. I really feel I didn't need to do the intake gaskets themselves. I could have just done the 3 above with the CCV and I feel my issue would have been resolved. But at least I know I should be good for at least another 5-10 years now. Every gaskets in the air system, and the valve covers, have been done. And I'm not smoking anymore. So +1 on this project. All issues I was trying to solve seem to be fixed. First time for everything!

[cyclops2]

What an adventure! Great job with an excellent outcome. Bet you were wondering if you'd get there. Keep us posted on how the next 1000 miles go. sounds like you go this. now on to the next project on the list.

[georgebest]

I lucked out and BMW had the rubber valve cover washers in stock. I got it all back together and turned the key... it caught then died. Several times. Like 5. I was finally able to get it to stay running, barely. I got it to rev to 2500 a few times, then it wouldn't go above like 300 RPM's. It would idle, if shaking like a fat drunk girl at her first dance can be called idle. CEL was flashing like crazy. I got out to see if I could "see" anything, stood looking at it for like 10 seconds and then it just started running right. Smooth as silk. It's been fine since. Took like 5 mins. Pulled the codes, I was missing on 5 of 8 cylinders. Then it just automagically fixed itself and all is good.

I cleared the codes, and I've driven about 200 miles since. I've had several cold starts. No missing, no shaking, no stalling. It's been running perfect. CEL has stayed off for the first time since I've owned it. I'm about 85% sure my whole problem was the gasket between the front of the intake and the plate thing the TB mounts to. Called the front intake gasket I think. Mine was brittle and dry. It just crumbled. I suspect the fact it was covered in oil, maybe for years, to be part of it. All the gaskets on the intake and TB were covered, and the slots they mounted in were filled with oil. The gasket between the TB and that plate was not as brittle, but it was flat, I don't think it was sealing well anymore either.

I suppose it could have been the CCV also. And it's gasket was kinda shot as well. I'll never know for sure, since I did them all. I really feel I didn't need to do the intake gaskets themselves. I could have just done the 3 above with the CCV and I feel my issue would have been resolved. But at least I know I should be good for at least another 5-10 years now. Every gaskets in the air system, and the valve covers, have been done. And I'm not smoking anymore. So +1 on this project. All issues I was trying to solve seem to be fixed. First time for everything!

Congrats! When I started reading this thread I thought your oil pipe was leaking, the one from the CCV to OSV but apparently it was the intake gaskets. I feel your pain, it's really annoying when a cheap, irrelevant part is holding up a project. Hope no issues for a while now!

[acspecialists]

I think I had the same problem, the gasket behind the TB.

While I was at the same project I replaced the heater hoses, valley pan and gasket on the accumulator. One to remember is the oil pipe that geogebest mentioned. It has a small piece of hose where it slides into the block on the forward end. Mine was cracked so I just cut a small piece of hose and used some hose clamps.

[georgebest]

I think I had the same problem, the gasket behind the TB.
While I was at the same project I replaced the heater hoses, valley pan and gasket on the accumulator. One to remember is the oil pipe that geogebest mentioned. It has a small piece of hose where it slides into the block on the forward end. Mine was cracked so I just cut a small piece of hose and used some hose clamps.

Yep, that was on mine too. I have also read some posts here and other forums where people forgot to connect it back the CCV causing all kind of issues. I almost did the same

[agentrnge]

Nice work 951. Subbed for re-read when I do this. thanks.

[951Dreams]

Nice work 951. Subbed for re-read when I do this. thanks.

Sorry that it wasn't more of a How To. There were enough of those, so I was just throwing this out there as a "Here's my problem, here's how I fixed it" kinda thing.

One thing I didn't mention. The three long front bolts in each valve cover have different "rubber washers" than the others. So unlike all the kits show, you don't need 22 of the rubber washers, you need 16. Then you need 6 of the different ones for the long bolts. I didn't realize till I had cut one of the ones for the long bolts off. I used RTV to cover my cut and reused it. I have yet to run down the correct washer. I'll post about it when I do.

As an update, it's been 11 days, and about 750 miles. So far still no CEL and no missing/running ruff/shaking or stalling. I'm still smoking on startup sometimes, but that's another issue. So as I suspected, my issues were all vacuum related, and gaskets fixed my issue.

All the small gaskets were OEM BMW gaskets I used. The intake and valve cover gaskets were Victor Reinz. I've always had good luck with their stuff, and the savings were quite large. Visually I couldn't tell a difference. One other thing I did that wasn't called for in the write-ups is I used RTV (black for oil) gasket maker to hold in the intake and valve cover gaskets. Not tons, but enough to keep them from dropping out. I couldn't get them to stay in long enough to position the intake, so that was my solution. On the valve covers it was obvious the stock ones I had were glued in from the factory. I had to chisel them out in places. After studying the design, the seal isn't really made on the inside of the intake or the valve covers. It would be next to impossible for that part to develop leaks. It's a good design in my opinion, in effect making the gasket a part of the intake/valve cover. The seal is made between the gasket and block/head. As such I didn't see any reason to not use some RTV to hold the gaskets in place while I installed them. The only place I used the RTV on the mounting surfaces was where it's called for in the manuals, on the half-moons and the little plastic pieces on the front side of the valve covers. Will this turn out to bit me in the a$$ down the road? Maybe, but so far no leaks. I'll post back if I discover it was a bad idea.

In other news, I now get about 2-3 MPG better after fixing the leak. So that's a plus. Will pay for itself down the road!

[georgebest]

Will this turn out to bit me in the a$$ down the road?

I'm not sure what you are referring to, but the answer is YES
Good job, very happy to see your progress. I also use Victor Reinz, good stuff. I prefer to use a gasket stick on the valve covers, I dont even know how I would put back bank 1 without it, so little space. I'm removing them now almost every weekend trying to figure my timing issue

[951Dreams]

I'm not sure what you are referring to, but the answer is YES
Good job, very happy to see your progress. I also use Victor Reinz, good stuff. I prefer to use a gasket stick on the valve covers, I dont even know how I would put back bank 1 without it, so little space. I'm removing them now almost every weekend trying to figure my timing issue

Thanks George, is been so worth it so far.

What I was saying I was hoping didn't bite me in the rear is using RTV to hold in the gasket. But I can't imagine it would.