Results 1 to 16 of 16

Thread: Custom Audio Build S70 Car, yes another audio thread AGAIN!

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Portola Valley CA
    Posts
    497
    My Cars
    1993 BMW 850ci 6 speed

    Custom Audio Build S70 Car, yes another audio thread AGAIN!

    Question first: what are the best and ideal to do a very clean wire fishing?

    Now for the setup with all links below:


    A)2 Channels of the amp going to the front stage components at 2 Ohms. Please note the Focal Speakers I purchased are 2 Ohms. I am am thinking the 6.5 speaker in the kick panel and the tweets in the pillar or the mirrors.
    B)2 Channels of the amp going to rear speakers Focals rear. Please note the Focals in the rear, are 4 Ohms. I know, a little overkill for back fill with these speakers.
    C) 1 Sub Channel going to 8 Sub, like the build for Clarion with a box and through Ski Pass through. I talked to ArcAudio engineers and they said I can draw 2 Ohms to those speakers. I will have box made specially to the spec of the speakers.
    D) Head unit. Is what is it is.
    E) 5 Channel amp



    Here are the goodies I purchased:

    1) ArcAudio XDi850.5
    http://www.arcaudio.com/store?p=90847
    XDi Amplifier Manual Download Product Manual Here
    4-Channels @ 4 Ohms (Ch 1-4) 85 Watts
    4-Channels @ 2 Ohms (Ch 1 - 4) 125 Watts
    2-Channel @ 4 Ohms (Ch 1-4 Bridged) 250 Watts
    1-Channel @ 4 Ohms (Ch 5) 225 Watts
    1-Channel @ 2-Ohms (Ch 5) 400 Watts
    Frequency Response 20Hz - 20kHz
    Crossover Range (Ch 1-4) 50Hz - 550Hz
    Crossover Range (Ch 5) 30Hz - 230Hz
    Bandpass Capable No
    Bass Boost Variable 0-12 dB @ 45Hz
    Cosmetic Trim XDi Trim Level 1
    Remote Level Control Included Yes
    Input Sensitivity (Low) 200mV - 3.5V
    Fuse 3 x 30 Amp
    Dimensions 12.42"(L) x 6.268"(W)x2.162"(H)



    2) ARC 8D4 for my Sub
    http://www.arcaudio.com/store?p=101766
    ARC Series Subwoofer Manual Download Product Manual Here
    Download ARC 8 Product Review Here Download Product Review Here
    Power Handing (Peak) 300 Watts
    Power Handling (RMS) 150 Watts
    Impedance Dual 2 Ohm or 4 Ohm
    Minimum Sealed Enclosure 0.35 cu ft
    Optimum Sealed Enclosure 0.45 cu ft
    Maximum Sealed Enclosure 0.55 cu ft
    Cutout Diameter 7-1/8"
    Mounting Depth 4-1/2"



    3)Front Stage Component Speakers: K2 Power 165KRX2 6-1/2"
    https://www.crutchfield.com/p_091165...X2.html?tp=106


    4) Rear Speakers for fill: K2 Power 165KRC 6-1/2
    https://www.crutchfield.com/p_091165....html?tp=78072


    5)Head Unit: Kenwood KMM-BT518HD
    https://www.crutchfield.com/p_113KMB...D.html?tp=5684
    With Ready Harness already prewired and connected:
    https://www.crutchfield.com/p_264PAS...e.html?tp=1661



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    San Jose, CA USA
    Posts
    984
    My Cars
    91 850
    Hey Alex. Sounds like you're on a great audio build endeavor and good luck with your project.

    On my very first audio build in my 8 back in 2009, I had the JL Audio 500/5 Slash amp, and with Focal K2 in the fronts, Focal TN45 tweets in the door, and Critical Mass RS6 coaxial in the rear and a 12" high power sub in the trunk with custom made box w/ the dimensions recommended for it to sing and thump.

    The wires were all redone and had a capacitor inline with the power. I soon replaced the setup. As a matter of fact, I redid me setup several times before I was 75% content.

    I can tell you now that my favorite car speakers are still the Focal K2 series and up, but to install them in the kicker panels in the foot well will be a big No, No.
    That's exactly where I had my Focal K2 6.5" installed. The sound staging was completely off and the "midrange" frequency is muted by the carpet and tunnel down there. Unlike the low (bass) frequency, midrange and high frequencies don't radiate. The foot well and transmission hump will love the Focals but your ears will not.
    Last edited by ChrisFuture8; 04-06-2018 at 06:22 PM.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    San Jose, CA USA
    Posts
    984
    My Cars
    91 850
    I still have the Critical Mass RS6 coaxial in the rear and installed in the original speaker enclosures and properly sealed, but the rest, I changed them out to speakers of the exact sizes of the OEM speakers replaced.
    You don't need a lot of power for the rears, just crisp, and clarity. My Critical Mass is still too powerful and I'll get around to replacing them one day.

    In the foot well, like a few of the members on here, I have a pair of 6.5 CDT ES-06+ subs. They are fine there and provides good solid bass that you can feel. The trick is to seal the area there well and slap some sound deadner materials to the inside of the fender for warmth.

    In the doors I have CDT ES 4" mids and CDT ES010 silk tweeters. Driven by a McIntosh MX6 406 headunit and powered by a 4 channel JL Audio HD 600/4 for the speakers and Focal mono amp for the twin 6.5" subs.

    Overall, the sound is very decent but I'm still not quite happy. Sound staging isn't all there for me and I will eventually switch back to the Focal speakers.
    Personally, I feel the Focal mids are a bit more clear and pronounced than the CDT Audio mids.
    With multiple sound system build interations already, IMHO, I find the 8 very challenging to get the sound staging right...because of the installation limitation in terms of space and what size speakers can be installed in them.

    So if I were to provide feedback, I would say that I wouldn't recommend installing the midrange speakers down in the footwell area.
    Last edited by ChrisFuture8; 04-06-2018 at 06:27 PM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Portola Valley CA
    Posts
    497
    My Cars
    1993 BMW 850ci 6 speed
    Hi Chris,

    thanks for the reply. The base is covered with ArcAudio 8” sub shooting into the car through ski pass through. Exacatly like Clarion build. Tweet, I kind of have an idea where to put it.

    what about the 6.5” part of the component front setup? You don’t think kick panel is a good spot? Then door what about where the 3” is located, is that a good spot?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisFuture8 View Post
    I still have the Critical Mass RS6 coaxial in the rear and installed in the original speaker enclosures and properly sealed, but the rest, I changed them out to speakers of the exact sizes of the OEM speakers replaced.
    You don't need a lot of power for the rears, just crisp, and clarity. My Critical Mass is still too powerful and I'll get around to replacing them one day.

    In the foot well, like a few of the members on here, I have a pair of 6.5 CDT ES-06+ subs. They are fine there and provides good solid bass that you can feel. The trick is to seal the area there well and slap some sound deadner materials to the inside of the fender for warmth.

    In the doors I have CDT ES 4" mids and CDT ES010 silk tweeters. Driven by a McIntosh MX6 406 headunit and powered by a 4 channel JL Audio HD 600/4 for the speakers and Focal mono amp for the twin 6.5" subs.

    Overall, the sound is very decent but I'm still not quite happy. Sound staging isn't all there for me and I will eventually switch back to the Focal speakers.
    Personally, I feel the Focal mids are a bit more clear and pronounced than the CDT Audio mids.
    With multiple sound system build interations already, IMHO, I find the 8 very challenging to get the sound staging right...because of the installation limitation in terms of space and what size speakers can be installed in them.

    So if I were to provide feedback, I would say that I wouldn't recommend installing the midrange speakers down in the footwell area.
    Last edited by alex840; 04-06-2018 at 08:28 PM.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    San Jose, CA USA
    Posts
    984
    My Cars
    91 850
    Hi Alex,

    With the typical 6.5" mids, they are usually installed at the lowest level of the door panels. Unfortunately with our cars, there is no room for that. The largest you can fit inside the current area is 4" mids. Selections for the 4" mids in the market are few. You Will Not like the 6.5" installed in the foot well. It's very muted...like someone put a blanket over the speakers. It's a complete waste of very fine speakers such as your Focal K2 series.

    I didn't have the stomach to mod the ski pass-through section so I opted with the foot-well for the subs. Ideally, I humbly think the ski-pass through would make a perfect spot to mount your subwoofer speaker.
    If you're not setting up your speakers with active x-over, the Focal K2 passive x-overs are decent and there are other high-end Focal passive x-overs that can be found on ebay for really great deals. Some of the new ones even have gains for the mids too.

    I had a friend who installed ARC Audio gears (amps) in his truck and they sounded good. I really like my JL Audio HD series amp, but from experience between the JL Audio and the ARC, I like the JL Audio Slash series the most. It was just more dynamic and accurate than the JL HD and the ARC Audio (both class D) amps. They don't make those Slash series anymore and they had a tendency to go bad on one of the channels.

    Edit: I forgot to mention, I have the CDT Audio tweeters mounted on the door cards right by the vent. It's a bit overpowering so I had to decrease the gain to improve on the imaging.
    I think placing the tweeters over by the mirrors would be the better position. Also, if the 6.5" mids could be installed at midsection where the OEM mids are, that too would be overpowering.
    Last edited by ChrisFuture8; 04-06-2018 at 10:43 PM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    161
    My Cars
    bmw 850i M-tech
    Kick panel is excellent location for mids. It just needs work to do it right. The kick panel placement puts the speaker as far as possible from listener and that is something you cant tune with any dsp!

    The volume inside the kick panel cavity isn't very big for 6,5" free air woofers and might result to pretty big cabin gain peak. Sometimes using good 5,25" gives better results. I have done actual free air installation to my kick panels. That means the woofer actually breaths outside the car.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    1,076
    My Cars
    97 850CI
    Keep us posted with the results Alex. Given the audio variances with equipment, types of music and the human ear, real world results are all that matter. If and when your system is finished, if it sounds good to you, then job well done.
    Desecrator of all things Sacred

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Santa Barbara
    Posts
    2,471
    My Cars
    91 Dinan860 & 91 850 6sp
    Everything that Chris told you is true.
    ...and you've got way, way, way too much going on in the back.

    The thing about the CDT's in the footwells... I have M6+'s down there... Frequency Response: 10~4000 Hz. Yours stops at 70 and goes all the way to 20k. So, you're basically moving all your midrange to the footwell, which will not go well...

    Not the best choice, IMO... but I tried 6 different setups too before I got it right. Welcome to the circus
    Last edited by cartoonz; 04-07-2018 at 12:09 PM.
    '91 Dinan 860 Stage III (soon to be Dinan TT 6L)
    '91 850i 6sp (mint)
    '91 850i 6sp (getting there)
    '90 Dinan 750iL TT stage III
    '94 850 CSi (being restored to factory perfect)
    '94 840ci (4 short - obvious parts car), '91 850i parts car
    '73 3.0 csi, '08 535i, '95 318i
    ...and a few other non BMW cars

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Portola Valley CA
    Posts
    497
    My Cars
    1993 BMW 850ci 6 speed
    I am sooooo glad I posted. I was about to tear into the car! Ok, I thought of installing a DSP as well, but reading about it I got little overwhelmed....out of my level of expertise.

    Ok from what I read:
    Front Stage: Focal K2 components tweeter in/on where the mirror triangle is. Newer bmws actually put their Tweets there now. Big issue: it "sounds" like footwell/kick panel 6.5" would not sound up to par for mid range. Taking the door panels off and gauge how much cutting I need to do to make the 6.5" as far away and as low as I can from the tweeters as Chris recommend. Please not, I will be cutting and chopping stuff up since this will be custom install.
    Rear: 6.5" Focal K2 two way, yeah I thought of what Toonz said. Way too much for the rear, but gonna try.
    Sub: 8" in 1/2 cubic inch box firing into the ski hole or leaning against the ski hole in the trunk facing away from it. A sound engineer that has done a lot of installs on 3 series and 5 series said 9 out of 10 times it sounds better, but will never know until it is tried out.
    Amp 5 channel : straight forward. Put it in where the original amp is 2 channels going to rear focal k2 two ways wit passive cross over. Focal Cross overs seam to be much better built than the rest. 2 channels going to the pair of Focal k2 components again with focal passive cross overs.
    DSP: I contemplated long and hard about this.....its just too much for me.

    My hope was by reading all the threads from roadfly to Bimmerforums, I could do it once but as 72tpik5 mentioned I have to keep changing and tuning until I get them to sound like I want them to. I hope I don't have to do it 6 times like toonz.

    My OEM 6 speed car is done. Dragon850 and I went through many speakers to find drop in replacement as close as possible to the OEM speakers. I might add a sub in the trunk and a sub amp to it just for kicks and giggles since a friend do mine has one readily available.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    San Jose, CA USA
    Posts
    984
    My Cars
    91 850
    Good luck buddy. You got some great audio gears there. It's all about the planning and attention to details. Make sure all the cuts are well sealed and the backsides are properly dampened. Otherwise, you'll get buzz and vibration on tunes with drum heavy passage.
    When you're tuning the x-over frequency on the amp, you may have to select the lowest gain on the focal passive x-overs for the rear speakers. Otherwise, the equally strong rear speakers may mess with the overall imaging.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Portola Valley CA
    Posts
    497
    My Cars
    1993 BMW 850ci 6 speed
    Update:

    So I am thinking of putting the 6.5" mid in the attached pic location. Were the tweeter used to be. Yes, I know I am cutting the door panel up and I will be cutting and measuring every 1 mm.....

    rl548pE5REuWJR%ox9Jn4Q.jpg
    Or scrap everything and start from scratch with this. BTW, anyone tried them out yet? Using the same amp bridging 2 channel 1-4 one to each side for a three way system front stage only and of course 1 sub channel for the 8" sub in the ski hole.

    http://www.jehnert.de/en/shop/doorbo...y-soundsystem/



    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisFuture8 View Post
    Good luck buddy. You got some great audio gears there. It's all about the planning and attention to details. Make sure all the cuts are well sealed and the backsides are properly dampened. Otherwise, you'll get buzz and vibration on tunes with drum heavy passage.
    When you're tuning the x-over frequency on the amp, you may have to select the lowest gain on the focal passive x-overs for the rear speakers. Otherwise, the equally strong rear speakers may mess with the overall imaging.
    Last edited by alex840; 04-11-2018 at 04:28 PM.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Santa Barbara
    Posts
    2,471
    My Cars
    91 Dinan860 & 91 850 6sp
    GAAACK! Stop Alex!
    Call me and I'll talk you off the ledge... again...lol
    '91 Dinan 860 Stage III (soon to be Dinan TT 6L)
    '91 850i 6sp (mint)
    '91 850i 6sp (getting there)
    '90 Dinan 750iL TT stage III
    '94 850 CSi (being restored to factory perfect)
    '94 840ci (4 short - obvious parts car), '91 850i parts car
    '73 3.0 csi, '08 535i, '95 318i
    ...and a few other non BMW cars

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Portola Valley CA
    Posts
    497
    My Cars
    1993 BMW 850ci 6 speed
    Toonz tomorrow for sure.....major SOS today

    Quote Originally Posted by cartoonz View Post
    GAAACK! Stop Alex!
    Call me and I'll talk you off the ledge... again...lol

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    orange, ca
    Posts
    2,398
    My Cars
    '91 e31
    +1 on anything Harold has to say about speakers

    Big hybrid-audio fan so used their tweets in the same location you are proposing (top corner of door panels - yes, I cut a hole too...), the 6" CDT as a mid-bass in the kick panel and 4"(IIRC) CDT upper-mid in the door panel. VERY tough to even get those 6" in the kick panel and those 4" barely squeezed into place in the door-

    Front sound stage is amazing now, and bass response is (much) improved

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Portola Valley CA
    Posts
    497
    My Cars
    1993 BMW 850ci 6 speed
    SOS signal was answered, and old goodies are being returned and new ones on the way. Thread will be updated with results.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    161
    My Cars
    bmw 850i M-tech
    I should make a thread of my build. i have done some very hardcore modifications for my eight to achieve the best possible sound. Only problem is the time and language barrier.

    For example the true free air with hybrid audio L6SE mids in kicks breathing outside car. I must say when i tested those without the outside venting the speaker performance was very poor compared to venting.

Similar Threads

  1. Wheels for E46 Build? and Update (Yes another one)
    By CP Louie in forum Track, Auto-X & Drag Racing sponsored by Bimmerparts.com
    Replies: 49
    Last Post: 03-04-2007, 11:03 AM
  2. Yes, Another V1 Thread
    By ///MDriver in forum Car Audio & Electronics sponsored by Bavsound
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 04-06-2003, 08:52 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •