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Thread: 01 E38 no Start after timing guide job

  1. #1
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    01 E38 no Start after timing guide job

    I have finally completed my 01 E38 timing guide replacement. Got everything back together. Triple checked all of my connections. Filled all of my fluids. Reconnected the battery. And went to crank it over for the first time and it turns and turns and no start.. I am at a loss. What should I be checking for? Please help!!

  2. #2
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    Update. I have spark and fuel. Although the tach doesnt move when cranking. Checked crank sensor and it registers 630+ ohms and roughly 2.5 volts on connector. I dont know what else to check...

  3. #3
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    A copy of my PM answer:





    If you have fuel and spark, the DME is trying to start the engine.

    Does the engine SOUND normal, while you're trying to start it, or does it turn too quickly?

    Try this for me: Remove the fuel pump fuse.......ummmm.....#57.

    Then crank the starter for ~10 seconds, let it rest for 30 seconds, and repeat....3 times.

    Did you hear the engine TRY to fire briefly during these tries?

    Chris Powell
    Racer and Instructor since, well. decades, ok?
    Master Auto Tech, owner of German Motors of Aberdeen
    BMWCCA 274412
    German Motors is hiring ! https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...1#post30831471

  4. #4
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    Yes it did. At least the first time. Second and third time were just like it was prior to pulling the fuse. Normal cranking. Just not starting.

  5. #5
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    Now reinsert the fuse, and crank the starter. What happens?

    Chris Powell
    Racer and Instructor since, well. decades, ok?
    Master Auto Tech, owner of German Motors of Aberdeen
    BMWCCA 274412
    German Motors is hiring ! https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...1#post30831471

  6. #6
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    I don't have much experience with this but when we see this particular issue in the E38 forum, it's usually related to the timing procedure being off. Did you use one of the DIY's available for this job on the vanos engine?

    http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/876903

  7. #7
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    Copied from my PM:


    No start. I even repeated what you told me to do before. Same result. When fuse it out, it wants to start the first time. But not afterward

    I think it's flooded. Gas washes away the ring seal, so you lose compression. Pull all the spark plugs (yes, I know that's a PITA), and dump a teaspoon of oil in each cylinder. Then pull the fuel pump fuse again, and crank the starter, plugs out, for 10 seconds. Then put the plugs back in, and crank the starter again for 10 seconds, then PREFERABLY have someone else reinsert the fuse WHILE you're cranking the starter.

    Remember, all you need for the engine to run are: fuel, spark, air, and compression. Of course, I am assuming that you set the timing correctly....

    Chris Powell
    Racer and Instructor since, well. decades, ok?
    Master Auto Tech, owner of German Motors of Aberdeen
    BMWCCA 274412
    German Motors is hiring ! https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...1#post30831471

  8. #8
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    You DID use the proper timing tools, and followed directions, turned the vanos to position using a multimeter to check it, etc?

    Chris Powell
    Racer and Instructor since, well. decades, ok?
    Master Auto Tech, owner of German Motors of Aberdeen
    BMWCCA 274412
    German Motors is hiring ! https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...1#post30831471

  9. #9
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    Yes sir I sure did. I used German Auto Solutions tools and a fluke multimeter. I followed it step by step. But this is my first timing job on a BMW E38 and I may have missed something. Could the timing be that far off to cause it to not run at all?

    If I do need to re-time the motor, it is possible to do it without taking the lower cover off, right?

  10. #10
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    I answered your PM. Sorry, hadn't seen this post yet, so I re-asked the same questions about the timing tools, no need to answer that question again.

    If you followed the directions and used the tools, I really don't see how timing would be the cause of your no-start. Personally, I missed by one tooth once, by putting the slack on the wrong side of the chain, but that just caused a CEL, the car ran fine. (Yes, I had to go back and re-time it, no the lower cover doesn't need to come off.)

    Personally, I think you need to go recheck fuel and spark. Buy a can of MAF cleaner or electrical contact cleaner or brake cleaner (the first two are better), and have someone spray a little into the intake elbow / throttle body while you're cranking the starter. And recheck spark. If you have spark, the DME is trying to start the car, and the DME has timing information. (That info might not be correct, but you'd likely hear popping and backfiring at the very least.....)


    What do you have, for a scan tool? Can you watch live data? Do you have any codes?
    Last edited by bmwdirtracer; 04-08-2018 at 05:40 PM.

    Chris Powell
    Racer and Instructor since, well. decades, ok?
    Master Auto Tech, owner of German Motors of Aberdeen
    BMWCCA 274412
    German Motors is hiring ! https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...1#post30831471

  11. #11
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    Where did you check fuel? One of the fuses in the fuse carrier powers the injectors. If you get fire by doing what Chris suggests, I would check those 5 fuses in the carrier.

  12. #12
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    Ok Guys,

    First. Scan tool. I dont have one, but I am happy to buy one because I know I will need one in the future. I need to know exactly what to buy and where to buy it from. I can order immediately.

    Fuel. I get more of a quick goosh off fuel after the key has been on and then turned off. Not huge pressure where it sprays all over. The spray mainly coats part of the intake and thats about it. Which five fuses are we talking about in the "carrier?"

    I tried spraying MAF fluid right at the intake while sticking a screwdriver in to push plenom open slightly while my daughter cranked the motor. No start or attempt to fire.

    Hmmm.

  13. #13
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    The fuel only pumps while the car is cranking over. The fuse carrier sits off to the side of the ebox. It has 5 fuses.

    A8680, X8680


    rear RH side of engine compartment in E-Box
    A8680 Fuse carrier, engine electronics
    X8680 Component connector (10-pin, Black), Fuse carrier, engine electronics

  14. #14
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    EXOTICS
    Well then, here are some options,
    concerning diagnostic tools,

    For a good BMW scan tool, I feel you have 3 options:

    • Foxwell nt520:http://www.foxwelltool.com/search/?q=NT520
    • Carly for BMW:http://www.mycarly.com/product/bmw-app/
    • INPA software for BMW: Do a search on bimmerforums

      I recommended them in no specific order,
      as selection is based more on preference.

      INPA is an excellent diagnostic tool,
      but is a proprietary BMW factory tool.
      So all available copies are technically bootleg versions.
      This requires a copy of the INPA software downloaded into a laptop computer,
      along with the correct cables for your particular model of BMW.
      I recommend this only for computer geeks, or the mostly computer savvy among us.

      For an affordable standalone unit, Foxwell nt510(nt520 Updated version) is the preferred unit, along with required cables.
      It can scan for BMW codes, among other things, as it can communicate with all BMW modules.

      Carly for BMW is an APP,
      and as such, requires a smartphone,
      along with a connection to the OBD2 port in your vehicle,
      supplied either by cable or wireless connection via Bluetooth dongle


    Update: Now the full version is $74/year on a recurring subscription
    Last edited by MIKYZZ4; 07-12-2018 at 05:02 PM.

  15. #15
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    You will get a short burst of fuel from the fuel pump at key on/ key start. The DME then takes over the duty of keeping the fuel pump running based on a signal from the CPS. If I were going to use anything as a starting agent I prob would choose.... starting fluid. MayorChuck's fuse box photo is also a big help, that might be the vehicle with a relatively thin harness that runs by the T-stat and was known for rubbing thru and shorting the fuses he is highlighting. The harness might look okay from a casual glance, but when you peel back the tape you might find an issue.

  16. #16
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    Ordering Foxwell this evening. Will it come with the appropriate connectors I need to hook up my E38 obd port as well as the 20 pin under the hood? And Will it do the live data that I need?

    I also checked all of the fuses in the five position carrier like MayorChuck suggested and all is good there. Not sure where to go with this except to tear it apart and re-time...Any other suggestions? Should I wait for the Foxwell?

  17. #17
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    ECS sells the 20-pin connector for $20 . You need that.

    Chris Powell
    Racer and Instructor since, well. decades, ok?
    Master Auto Tech, owner of German Motors of Aberdeen
    BMWCCA 274412
    German Motors is hiring ! https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...1#post30831471

  18. #18
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    If you have a 20 pin port under the hood you will want the 20 pin adapter. It is not included by default.
    '95 325iS - auto to manual swap done!

  19. #19
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    Ok on the connector. I assume it should come with the OBDII connector? Should I wait for the scanner before re-timing?

  20. #20
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    If the car were in my hands, I'd recheck spark and fuel pressure.

    Chris Powell
    Racer and Instructor since, well. decades, ok?
    Master Auto Tech, owner of German Motors of Aberdeen
    BMWCCA 274412
    German Motors is hiring ! https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...1#post30831471

  21. #21
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    OBD-II connector is hardwired to the scanner.
    '95 325iS - auto to manual swap done!

  22. #22
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    I checked the fuel pressure at the schrader valve and I get more of a quick goosh of fuel after the key has been on and then turned off. Not huge pressure where it sprays all over. The spray mainly coats part of the intake and thats about it. Not having a pressure gauge I am not sure if that is what I should have. I just tried cranking the motor after sitting since yesterday afternoon and it seems to want to fire, but then doesnt. I just re-checked for spark and we have spark.

  23. #23
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    Hey Guys. So I am getting to the end of my rope with this one and may have to have it towed to a shop. I left out a few things which may help. This car is a 2001 E38 with 92k on the clock. It ran perfectly with the exception of a slight short rattle when starting from cold. It had a slow leak from the radiator which is what caused me to start this project. I was a little worried that the rattle that I was hearing was from the timing chain so I decided to go ahead and do the guides since I was going to do a waterpump along with the radiator and associated hoses and such. I also replaced both lines on the power steering reservoir as there was a p/s leak there also. I completed the job over a couple of days while working and going to school also. I timed the motor per German Auto Specialties online instructions. I also replaced the front oil separator behind the timing chain as I cracked the old one removing the chain guide...Grrr. Could that have something to do with this?? Could I have messed the timing up that bad that would cause it not to start now? I have confirmed that I have spark, and fuel pressure. I can't imagine that I wouldnt have compression on a perfect running motor prior to the start of this job. What am I missing?

  24. #24
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    Count yourself lucky you cracked the OSV so you don't have to go in there again to replace it. That is really a 'must do' when doing the guides. That should not be your issue here. Here is one, of many, with similar issues after this job.

    https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...ar-won-t-start

    All the ones I can recall on this issue was usually a mistake in the timing procedure. A few others were caused by a weak battery.

  25. #25
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    If Mayorchuck tells you that you need to recheck timing, then you need to need to do this first. He's more intimately familiar with M62TU issues than I'll ever be, and he's read, noted, and researched many dozens, maybe hundreds, of similar issues on the same engine....and your car.

    I'm most familiar with my own mistakes.........

    Chris Powell
    Racer and Instructor since, well. decades, ok?
    Master Auto Tech, owner of German Motors of Aberdeen
    BMWCCA 274412
    German Motors is hiring ! https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...1#post30831471

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