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Thread: E46 M3 will not start please help

  1. #26
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  2. #27
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    I'm going with the wiring diagrams...


    https://screenshots.firefox.com/F5qd....prodemand.com


    note pin 27 of the 6003 connector.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I'd mention that there are threads which advise the benefits of creating a separate IAT:

    http://m3support.net/thread/200/e46-...r-relocate-s54

    Chris Powell
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  3. #28
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    Yeah, cheap MAF can cause problems like that too.
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  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmwdirtracer View Post
    Please see my post #20. MAF delivers IAT info, no separate sensor.

    I have to ask, where did you buy your MAF? And who's the manufacturer?
    I must ask also, as I'm assuming that is the cause of your anomaly.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmwdirtracer View Post
    Please see my post #20. MAF delivers IAT info, no separate sensor.

    I have to ask, where did you buy your MAF? And who's the manufacturer?
    ECS Tuning. I bought a Bosch MAF.

  6. #31
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    Okay, that's good. However, we keep coming back to the fact that we have no real data. Maybe half those codes set some time ago, and the scan tool you were using was unable to clear them?

    We also don't know what the fuel pressure actually is: maybe the pressure regulator is blown out, maybe the return line to the tank is crushed (if it's metal).

    Also, did you try unplugging the fuel pump fuse and cranking a while, perhaps even with a squirt of oil in each cylinder?

    What do the spark plugs look like, and when was the last time the valves were adjusted? Smoke test? Compression test?

    Also try unplugging the MAF again, even though it's new. This is NOT a test of the MAF, it's a way of diagnosing intake / crankcase vent leaks.

    Then you need that good scan tool, so you can read codes, look at the freeze frame data for those codes, clear them and see what comes back.

    Chris Powell
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  7. #32
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    I know all this seems overwhelming, but sometimes, that's what cars are. I spent days on a Mini timing chain job this week; usually, it's a one day job, but this car had lost timing, eaten the chain rails, so everything was in question. After timing was set with the proper tools and procedure, it kept changing the intake cam timing, ran like crap then stalled, set solenoid codes, and the cam locks wouldn't fit, next time I removed the valvecover. Turns out the vanos solenoids were PACKED SOLID with metal particles from the chain rails, when they were chewed up by the timing chain and gears. I'm still not done with it, but after cleaning both solenoids out twice, it runs pretty well, and doesn't stall.

    I tell you this story to illustrate how much information might be required to find your culprit.

    Did your car make any noises before this all began? When it's cranking now, does it make any rattling noises? (Talking about the Vanos of the Mini just scared me about your vanos bolts. How many miles on this car?)

    Chris Powell
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    German Motors is hiring ! https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...1#post30831471

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmwdirtracer View Post
    I know all this seems overwhelming, but sometimes, that's what cars are. I spent days on a Mini timing chain job this week; usually, it's a one day job, but this car had lost timing, eaten the chain rails, so everything was in question. After timing was set with the proper tools and procedure, it kept changing the intake cam timing, ran like crap then stalled, set solenoid codes, and the cam locks wouldn't fit, next time I removed the valvecover. Turns out the vanos solenoids were PACKED SOLID with metal particles from the chain rails, when they were chewed up by the timing chain and gears. I'm still not done with it, but after cleaning both solenoids out twice, it runs pretty well, and doesn't stall.

    I tell you this story to illustrate how much information might be required to find your culprit.

    Did your car make any noises before this all began? When it's cranking now, does it make any rattling noises? (Talking about the Vanos of the Mini just scared me about your vanos bolts. How many miles on this car?)
    93k on the car and I'm not sure if vanos was done. I did not hear any rattling noises fortunately. I appreciate the story and I understand. I also can imagine I am not being much of help either with the lack of information that I am providing.

    I have a crappy work schedule so my progress is slow, but I will have the car smoke tested today and I should have the fuel pressure tested as will in hopes of narrowing this down. I also ordered a new crankcase vent hose and oil separator kit to not take any chances. I will finally get around to cleaning the throttle body and ICV as well.

    I will update, thank you for your help thus far!

  9. #34
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    On an S54, the most common and dangerous vanos issue is the bolts coming loose which attach the cam gear to the camshaft. Once they work loose, it's only a few miles before they shear off, and all the valves are destroyed.

    Chris Powell
    Racer and Instructor since, well. decades, ok?
    Master Auto Tech, owner of German Motors of Aberdeen
    BMWCCA 274412
    German Motors is hiring ! https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...1#post30831471

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmwdirtracer View Post
    On an S54, the most common and dangerous vanos issue is the bolts coming loose which attach the cam gear to the camshaft. Once they work loose, it's only a few miles before they shear off, and all the valves are destroyed.
    I seriously hope thats is not the case!

    Smoke tested. Leak coming from under intake manifold towards the front of motor. Will remove the intake manifold in hopes to find the source.

  11. #36
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    The other problem is the exhaust hub. The tabs will break off, and when this happens sometimes they will fall into the motor, and get chewed up by the timing chain. So if you drive this car hard, those are the two thing to think about.
    Darin
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  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by dworthy View Post
    The other problem is the exhaust hub. The tabs will break off, and when this happens sometimes they will fall into the motor, and get chewed up by the timing chain. So if you drive this car hard, those are the two thing to think about.
    I will look into that as well thank you.

  13. #38
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    I have found that these guys do a pretty good job at fixing the known VANOS problems: https://www.drvanos.com/index.php/e46-m3-vanos
    Darin
    Current:
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    05 325it Electric Red(438)/Gray(N6TT) ZCW, ZSP 5sp Manual Back set cover, trunk mat, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield, and mud flaps! Mr. Wagon My new Winter car.
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    84 M535i gray market Burgandy Rot Met/Black Leather Lowered by Intrax on bilies, poly everywhere, B&B cat back system, K&N, and a hitch! Da Beast - Still running w/400k+!
    91 316i euro Tizianrot/Gray cloth - E-36 w/M-40 RIP, but great on gas! Best was 38 MPG
    82 528i euro Saphire Blue Met/Blue Leather RIP
    79 525 euro Green/Green RIP
    79 318 Silver/Black - The first one that got it all started
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  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by dworthy View Post
    I have found that these guys do a pretty good job at fixing the known VANOS problems: https://www.drvanos.com/index.php/e46-m3-vanos
    I have checked these guys out in the past. I'm really hoping its not a vanos issue but will look further into it. Thank you for the recommendation.

  15. #40
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    Sorry to scare you.....your issue is almost certainly NOT a vanos coming apart......let's get back to the issue at hand.....where were we?

    Oh yeah, before more testing, the results of the smoke test. I would like to mention that the smoke test is most effective when you use the escaping smoke to precisely locate the source of the leak, and then do your best to reach and fix that leak without disturbing any other potential leak spots. If you take the manifold off to fix a leak, you may cause 3 more leaks. Make sure that you replace any gasket you disturb, if you remove the manifold. 15 year old rubber self-destructs easily when it's disturbed.

    Use a mirror-on-a-stick (Sears, $5) and good flashlight to find the leak without removing the manifold. (Easier when smoke's coming out of it) A 3" mirror is best, not a dinky 1" one.

    Chris Powell
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    Master Auto Tech, owner of German Motors of Aberdeen
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  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmwdirtracer View Post
    Sorry to scare you.....your issue is almost certainly NOT a vanos coming apart......let's get back to the issue at hand.....where were we?

    Oh yeah, before more testing, the results of the smoke test. I would like to mention that the smoke test is most effective when you use the escaping smoke to precisely locate the source of the leak, and then do your best to reach and fix that leak without disturbing any other potential leak spots. If you take the manifold off to fix a leak, you may cause 3 more leaks. Make sure that you replace any gasket you disturb, if you remove the manifold. 15 year old rubber self-destructs easily when it's disturbed.

    Use a mirror-on-a-stick (Sears, $5) and good flashlight to find the leak without removing the manifold. (Easier when smoke's coming out of it) A 3" mirror is best, not a dinky 1" one.
    No apologies need. At this point who knows with a 15yr old car. Right ok, I will refrain from removing the intake manifold for now and see if I can peek around with a mirror and update if I find anything. Thank you very much!

  17. #42
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    I looked just about everywhere and couldn't really find anything leaking. I went ahead and pulled the intake manifold off. I will put in an order for new clamps for the throttle bodies as they may be the cause? Cleaned throttle bodies and ICV.
    I would like to smoke it again now since manifold is off.. Where would be good to hook up the smoke now since intake is off?

  18. #43
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    Amigo, freund, buddy, mate, you cannot smoke test the intake with the manifold off. Once you think it is all sealed up, then have a go at the smoke test. Also I would recommend that they do the evap system too, for while unlikely as it may seem, sometimes you get a bad line there too.
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  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by dworthy View Post
    Amigo, freund, buddy, mate, you cannot smoke test the intake with the manifold off. Once you think it is all sealed up, then have a go at the smoke test. Also I would recommend that they do the evap system too, for while unlikely as it may seem, sometimes you get a bad line there too.
    Thank you for clarifying sir. I bought a smoke tester and am new to it thus asking. Id like to smoke test the evap. Can find a proper DYI honestly. Where would you recommend I tap in the smoke?

    Also side question.. The plastic hose from the SMG fluid reservoir to the pump I believe is leaking. I seems pretty snug fitted to the pump. Do I just pull it out or is it a clip? Would like to closely inspect it before I order a new one.

  20. #45
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    I would just replace the clip with a standard hose clamp. Same thing happens to most power steering lines too. If replacing the clamp doesn't fix the leak, then you can also take about 1/2 an inch off the end, and re-install the line.
    Darin
    Current:
    16 220i Active Tourer Platinsilver MET (C08)/Dakota Black (PDSW), P7ACA, P7LDA, P7LHA, P9BDA, 6sp Manual - Wife's new toy!
    05 325it Electric Red(438)/Gray(N6TT) ZCW, ZSP 5sp Manual Back set cover, trunk mat, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield, and mud flaps! Mr. Wagon My new Winter car.
    05 M3 Imolarot II(405)/Gray(N5TT) ZCW, ZPP 6sp Manual C.F. Lip, CSL diffuser, SSK, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield and a trunk liner! Mr. Go_Fast Stored for the Winter
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    84 M535i gray market Burgandy Rot Met/Black Leather Lowered by Intrax on bilies, poly everywhere, B&B cat back system, K&N, and a hitch! Da Beast - Still running w/400k+!
    91 316i euro Tizianrot/Gray cloth - E-36 w/M-40 RIP, but great on gas! Best was 38 MPG
    82 528i euro Saphire Blue Met/Blue Leather RIP
    79 525 euro Green/Green RIP
    79 318 Silver/Black - The first one that got it all started
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  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by DugiHowser View Post
    ... I bought a smoke tester and am new to it thus asking.....
    I'm curious what smoke machine you purchased. Not that I need one, but all seem to be out of my price range.
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  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by MauiM3Mania View Post
    I'm curious what smoke machine you purchased. Not that I need one, but all seem to be out of my price range.
    Bought a Autool SDT106 off eBay for $150. There are also DIYs on google to make your own.

  23. #48
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    Very interesting tool, Dugi. Smoke machines are usually $750 at the very cheapest, and all require a compressor. Please keep us informed how this tool holds up. Also, after you get everything back together, can you hook up the tool to the intake again, and open the oil fill cap on the valvecover? How long does it take for the smoke to come out that hole?

    By the way, make sure to plug your tool in, in place of the MAF. Mass Airflow sensors do not like oil vapor.

    Chris Powell
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  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmwdirtracer View Post
    Very interesting tool, Dugi. Smoke machines are usually $750 at the very cheapest, and all require a compressor. Please keep us informed how this tool holds up. Also, after you get everything back together, can you hook up the tool to the intake again, and open the oil fill cap on the valvecover? How long does it take for the smoke to come out that hole?

    By the way, make sure to plug your tool in, in place of the MAF. Mass Airflow sensors do not like oil vapor.
    Yes I know they are usually very expensive. This one is pretty decent. Needs an air compressor to work as well. I have always been skeptical about Ebay quality but so far it has done the job. I did get everything back together and problem still persists unfortunately. Started up after 2 tries and ran for a little bit then it shut off. Currently just cranks without starting. Haven't had the chance to smoke test again but will soon. I will also prepare to check fuel pump again and fuel pressure.

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    Initial start is not dependent on MAF signal (fueling is a set value for cranking), so it should start and then die if there was a massive vacuum leak.
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