Hello all,
I have been searching high and low for some help trouble shooting my M3. Recently the car the had trouble starting up to the point that it will not start at all. It cranks and turns over for a second only to shut off again. I recently replaced the fuel pump and MAF sensor yet the problem persists. I did do a scan on the car and codes are:
P0301 - Misfire detected
P0463 - Fuel Level Sensor A Circuit High
P0113 - Intake air temp sensor 1 circuit high
P0171 - System too lean bank 1
P0175 - System too rich bank 1
P1717 - Hydraulic unit switch-on period
P1434 - Diagnostic module tank leakage malfunction
P0174 - System too lean bank 2
If anyone can share insight on what the issue can be I would greatly appreciate it. Thank you all in advance!
I can see a large vacuum leak, from the lean/rich codes, so you will need to get the intake smoke tested.
Is this a SMG equipped car?
Darin
Current:
16 220i Active Tourer Platinsilver MET (C08)/Dakota Black (PDSW), P7ACA, P7LDA, P7LHA, P9BDA, 6sp Manual - Wife's new toy!
05 325it Electric Red(438)/Gray(N6TT) ZCW, ZSP 5sp Manual Back set cover, trunk mat, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield, and mud flaps! Mr. Wagon My new Winter car.
05 M3 Imolarot II(405)/Gray(N5TT) ZCW, ZPP 6sp Manual C.F. Lip, CSL diffuser, SSK, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield and a trunk liner! Mr. Go_Fast Stored for the Winter
Past:
95 318is Montreal Blue Met (297)/Beige(K1SN) RIP, killed by an Idiot.
84 M535i gray market Burgandy Rot Met/Black Leather Lowered by Intrax on bilies, poly everywhere, B&B cat back system, K&N, and a hitch! Da Beast - Still running w/400k+!
91 316i euro Tizianrot/Gray cloth - E-36 w/M-40 RIP, but great on gas! Best was 38 MPG
82 528i euro Saphire Blue Met/Blue Leather RIP
79 525 euro Green/Green RIP
79 318 Silver/Black - The first one that got it all started
M-Flight Member
Yes it is a SMG tranny. I was told to replace the intake air temp sensor as well as that could have something to do with it so I will do that asap.
I did hear a hissing noise around the intake toward the manifold come to think of it. Ill take off the intake hopefully I can spot the leak without needing to tow it for a smoke test.
You need a better scanner. It looks like your SMG is not allowing the start.
- - - Updated - - -
Unless it always cranks?
SMG light/cog light on?
-Abel
- E36 328is ~210-220whp: Lots of Mods.
- 2000 Z3: Many Mods.
- 2003 VW Jetta TDI Manual 47-50mpg
- 1999 S52 Estoril M Coupe
- 2014 328d Wagon, self-tuned, 270hp/430ft-lbs
- 2019 M2 Competition, self-tuned, 504whp
- 2016 Mini Cooper S
First, allow me to say that Abel (328Power04) fixed two incredibly dissimilar race-car issues, from 1500 miles away, this past weekend., allowing TWO instructor's cars to continue providing enjoyment, when they would have otherwise had to go limping home....or not start at all!
All said, you need a fuel pressure test, a smoke test, disconnect the fuel pump fuse for several minutes of cranking, and read the codes via an actual BMW capable diag computer, not p-codes, which really suck.
WildAssedGuess: The engine is flooded. Pull the fuel pump fuse, squirt a teaspoon of oil in each cylinder, and work the starter for a little while before plugging the fuse in again..
Chris Powell
Racer and Instructor since, well. decades, ok?
Master Auto Tech, owner of German Motors of Aberdeen
BMWCCA 274412
German Motors is hiring ! https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...1#post30831471
Thank you! I can't take all the credit... I do have some wonderful contacts that were pitching ideas. Among them a BMW employee at BMW engineering, a genius programmer/disassembler/all around expert, and a very experienced large shop owner.
The 1M was a difficult case. Strange spontaneous wiring/module failure WITH a bricked dme at the same time, caused by the former. It was pretty cool to get the car running remotely though.
We all help each other, and are happy to.
-Abel
- E36 328is ~210-220whp: Lots of Mods.
- 2000 Z3: Many Mods.
- 2003 VW Jetta TDI Manual 47-50mpg
- 1999 S52 Estoril M Coupe
- 2014 328d Wagon, self-tuned, 270hp/430ft-lbs
- 2019 M2 Competition, self-tuned, 504whp
- 2016 Mini Cooper S
Yeah, it's never good when someone (the 1M owner) tries programming with 12 volts....then decides everything's working too slowly, and unplugs the damned programmer in the middle of everything/
PLUS a toasted FRM, and a CAS not providing a wake-up signal!
Not quite sure exactly what went on there, but let's just say that the grateful instructor had a fun weekend, instead of a disaster, thanks to you, Abel.
As for my own M5, and the other E39M5 I dealt with last week, I now know that ISTA and other diag computers see Fuel level sensor 1 and fuel level sensor 2 as REVERSED.....and I'll keep over half a tank in the car when tracking it!
DugiHowser: hook up a good scan tool; P-codes just don't cut it.
Chris Powell
Racer and Instructor since, well. decades, ok?
Master Auto Tech, owner of German Motors of Aberdeen
BMWCCA 274412
German Motors is hiring ! https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...1#post30831471
umm, yeah, "industrial control" type systems - loosely that's what i would consider the computers in our vehicles - absolutely do not like having their programming interrupted. in my world, that would be written up as "fails to recover from interruption gracefully."
'95 325iS - auto to manual swap done!
NO SMG light on at all but you may be on to something! I started taking things apart and noticed that my SMG fluid reservoir was very low because it started to leak out of the cap from what I can tell. Is this a common problem with these reservoir caps? I topped off the fluid and had the pump prime a few times and it started up. Possible that its a safe switch for the car to not run when low on SMG fluid?
I started taking things apart and noticed that my SMG fluid reservoir was very low because it started to leak out of the cap! Is this a common problem with these reservoir caps? I topped off the fluid and it started up. Possible that its a safe switch for the car to not run when low on SMG fluid?
From reading up more I gathered that when you get Lean codes it usually pertains to VAC leak. I will continue to look for a leak and while I'm pulling things apart I'm going to clean the ICV and throttle body. Is there anything else that is pron to leak or fail that I should be looking into?
At the moment I do not have access to a smoke tester but will tow the car to a shop to do it if I cannot find anything on my own.
- - - Updated - - -
Agreed! My friend has proper software and will scan the car later today. Will update thank you!
SMG does have a failsafe preventing starting. It's because it needs to release the clutch and keep it in neutral in order to start.
Use the scanner to see the engine codes, SMG codes (if any), and ews module codes.
-Abel
- E36 328is ~210-220whp: Lots of Mods.
- 2000 Z3: Many Mods.
- 2003 VW Jetta TDI Manual 47-50mpg
- 1999 S52 Estoril M Coupe
- 2014 328d Wagon, self-tuned, 270hp/430ft-lbs
- 2019 M2 Competition, self-tuned, 504whp
- 2016 Mini Cooper S
As I understand it, the starter cranks the engine for just a second, then quits. Is this correct? I think this would rule out the SMG, wouldn't it, Abel?
Bad engine main ground connection at the passenger engine mount? Bad starter? Bad ignition switch?
Chris Powell
Racer and Instructor since, well. decades, ok?
Master Auto Tech, owner of German Motors of Aberdeen
BMWCCA 274412
German Motors is hiring ! https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...1#post30831471
-Abel
- E36 328is ~210-220whp: Lots of Mods.
- 2000 Z3: Many Mods.
- 2003 VW Jetta TDI Manual 47-50mpg
- 1999 S52 Estoril M Coupe
- 2014 328d Wagon, self-tuned, 270hp/430ft-lbs
- 2019 M2 Competition, self-tuned, 504whp
- 2016 Mini Cooper S
We are still waiting on those BMW codes.
We are down to a basic fuel/air issue. You need to have the system smoke tested. If this doesn't show a large leak, after 7 minutes, you need to do a crankcase vacuum test, because you likely have an internal (CCV) issue.
Try this, for me: unplug the MAF, then start the car. Did it start and continue running? (You might have to try twice).
You need a bit of diagnostics, of the fuel/air mix. Smoke test, fuel pressure, crankcase vacuum.
Chris Powell
Racer and Instructor since, well. decades, ok?
Master Auto Tech, owner of German Motors of Aberdeen
BMWCCA 274412
German Motors is hiring ! https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...1#post30831471
My friend was never able to scan the car. I plan on ordering my own tool to get proper codes if I cannot find anything.
- - - Updated - - -
I did unplug the MAF and it did start and ran however, the random shut offs and no starts still happened after a while. I since then replaced the MAF.
If disconnecting the MAF didn't change anything, I have to put a new test at the top of the list, before a smoke test. You need to connect a fuel pressure gauge to the schrader valve on the fuel rail, run the hose under the back of the hood, and clip the gauge under a wiper, or tape it to the windshield. Then drive the car until the symptoms manifest, and look at the gauge. It should say 51 psi; if it's half that or less, replace the fuel pump.
Chris Powell
Racer and Instructor since, well. decades, ok?
Master Auto Tech, owner of German Motors of Aberdeen
BMWCCA 274412
German Motors is hiring ! https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...1#post30831471
Ignore the fuel sender code for now, if you have over 1/2 tank. If you had a good scan tool, you could read fuel levels in each half of the tank....
Now, looking back over this thread, I see that you have a code for "Intake Air Temp". You need to use a good scan tool to read what the computer is seeing as intake air temperature. If the sensor or wiring is open-circuited (unplugged,for instance), the computer will see IAT readings of ~negative 40 degrees F, which will absolutely cause pretty much all your issues.
A quick look at the wiring diagrams shows that, on your car, IAT is measured by the MAF., rather than a separate sensor. Do not buy a MAF : get access to the live data with a good scan tool.
Chris Powell
Racer and Instructor since, well. decades, ok?
Master Auto Tech, owner of German Motors of Aberdeen
BMWCCA 274412
German Motors is hiring ! https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...1#post30831471
I don't remember reading it, but was the MAF cleaned once already? If the IAT is fouled too, it was cause problems too.
Darin
Current:
16 220i Active Tourer Platinsilver MET (C08)/Dakota Black (PDSW), P7ACA, P7LDA, P7LHA, P9BDA, 6sp Manual - Wife's new toy!
05 325it Electric Red(438)/Gray(N6TT) ZCW, ZSP 5sp Manual Back set cover, trunk mat, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield, and mud flaps! Mr. Wagon My new Winter car.
05 M3 Imolarot II(405)/Gray(N5TT) ZCW, ZPP 6sp Manual C.F. Lip, CSL diffuser, SSK, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield and a trunk liner! Mr. Go_Fast Stored for the Winter
Past:
95 318is Montreal Blue Met (297)/Beige(K1SN) RIP, killed by an Idiot.
84 M535i gray market Burgandy Rot Met/Black Leather Lowered by Intrax on bilies, poly everywhere, B&B cat back system, K&N, and a hitch! Da Beast - Still running w/400k+!
91 316i euro Tizianrot/Gray cloth - E-36 w/M-40 RIP, but great on gas! Best was 38 MPG
82 528i euro Saphire Blue Met/Blue Leather RIP
79 525 euro Green/Green RIP
79 318 Silver/Black - The first one that got it all started
M-Flight Member
a quick google search will reveal plenty of hits for the IAT sensor location on an e46 m3....
'95 325iS - auto to manual swap done!
Hate to sound like an idiot but every search is a dead end. Leads to a different BMW model. If anyone can post a link Ill be happy to take from there.
Please see my post #20. MAF delivers IAT info, no separate sensor.
I have to ask, where did you buy your MAF? And who's the manufacturer?
Chris Powell
Racer and Instructor since, well. decades, ok?
Master Auto Tech, owner of German Motors of Aberdeen
BMWCCA 274412
German Motors is hiring ! https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...1#post30831471
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