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Thread: Resonance in aftermarket clutch.

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
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    Mandeville, LA
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    91
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    17M240, 96M3,88M3sold

    Resonance in aftermarket clutch.

    I have an 2002 S54 in my E36M3 with the E46M3 manual trans. It is used almost exclusively for time trials at the track. I'm running less than stock power levels to make class. The OEM clutch failed after two years of track use. Several BMW enthusiast in my area have had good luck with the FX stage 2 clutch kit off ebay. It has a lightweight steel flywheel and was reasonably priced. Once the unit came in, the clutch itself was a Luk and looked to be good quality. The flywheel and pressure plate looked to be very good quality. I did not used the supplied throw-out and pilot bearings, we they appeared to be cheapo units so I ordered new OEM for that. After installation, the clutch works well with good action. I did notice vibration over part of the RPM range that I was originally attributing to chatter, but after driving it a while I realized it is indeed a vibration. The vibration is from 5000-5500 RPM. Smooth above that and below that. It happens just sitting still in neutral with the clutch in or out. Same results driving, under load, coasting, whatever. This in indicative of a resonance being caused by the flywheel, clutch, or both. It is pronounced enough to give me concern that prolonged use would mean shortened engine life.


    A friend, who is a good BMW wrench, has the exact same clutch in the exact same engine and does not have this problem. I think it is probably a defect in the flywheel or pressure plate I have.

    As it is such a PITA to change the clutch, I only want to do it one more time. I do like the light weight flywheel as I'm not worried about chatter. I am worried about resonance and vibration severe enough to create other problems which I feel this is. I was thinking about buying an JB racing flywheel /OEM clutch assembly from ECS. The car did run good with all OEM, so that is probably the safer option.

    Thoughts?
    Last edited by rvsixdriver; 03-26-2018 at 03:06 PM.
    RVSIXDRIVER, 17 M240 '11' 128i 6MT, '96'M3/S54, '88'M3/S52 sold

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Bay Area, California
    Posts
    39
    My Cars
    1992 325is E36
    That could be from the flywheel not being balanced before installation. My buddy bought a uuc clutch and lightweight flywheel kit for his e36 m3 and the shop he took the flywheel to told him the flywheel was horribly balanced from the factory lol.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    5
    My Cars
    1991 E30 S52, 2002 E46M3
    Quote Originally Posted by rvsixdriver View Post
    I have an 2002 S54 in my E36M3 with the E46M3 manual trans. It is used almost exclusively for time trials at the track. I'm running less than stock power levels to make class. The OEM clutch failed after two years of track use. Several BMW enthusiast in my area have had good luck with the FX stage 2 clutch kit off ebay. It has a lightweight steel flywheel and was reasonably priced. Once the unit came in, the clutch itself was a Luk and looked to be good quality. The flywheel and pressure plate looked to be very good quality. I did not used the supplied throw-out and pilot bearings, we they appeared to be cheapo units so I ordered new OEM for that. After installation, the clutch works well with good action. I did notice vibration over part of the RPM range that I was originally attributing to chatter, but after driving it a while I realized it is indeed a vibration. The vibration is from 5000-5500 RPM. Smooth above that and below that. It happens just sitting still in neutral with the clutch in or out. Same results driving, under load, coasting, whatever. This in indicative of a resonance being caused by the flywheel, clutch, or both. It is pronounced enough to give me concern that prolonged use would mean shortened engine life.


    A friend, who is a good BMW wrench, has the exact same clutch in the exact same engine and does not have this problem. I think it is probably a defect in the flywheel or pressure plate I have.

    As it is such a PITA to change the clutch, I only want to do it one more time. I do like the light weight flywheel as I'm not worried about chatter. I am worried about resonance and vibration severe enough to create other problems which I feel this is. I was thinking about buying an JB racing flywheel /OEM clutch assembly from ECS. The car did run good with all OEM, so that is probably the safer option.

    Thoughts?
    I’m having the exact same issue with the exact same thoughts. I’ve actually parked her for now cause I’m worried it will lead to more issues. Right in the 5-6 rpm range. Sitting at a light or driving. Every gear. Ruins the whole experience for me.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    865
    My Cars
    2006 Estoril Blue/Cin M3
    Thats not surprising for a LW flywheel.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Daly City, CA
    Posts
    239
    My Cars
    '99 540i/6, '00 VFR800FI
    TL;DR: I'm experiencing the same issue, and I've had a hard time finding people talking about this. Have any of you solved this issue and if so, how?


    Here's all the details about where I'm at with it:

    S54 in my E36 using the ZF 5-speed. I assembled everything with a new-to-me ZF 320, and the ECS 16.5# steel flywheel kit that uses the E34 M5 clutch.

    The vibration that I get is most pronounced in the 5k-6k RPM range. It's less noticeable on throttle, but if I wind it up to 6-7k and let off, it makes the most horrifying resonance. I have poly engine/trans mounts and a fixed back seat bolted directly to the floor - it rattles my teeth.

    I jumped to conclusions and thought it was the transmission, but I swapped to another known good transmission and it still does it. I can push in the clutch pedal and free-rev it and the resonance is there, just not as pronounced as it is when I'm off-throttle at high RPM.

    I am getting ready to swap in the OE E46 M3 dual-mass flywheel that came with the motor, with a borrowed used clutch, just to see if it fixes that vibration. It's frustrating because it seems there are a lot of people that slap a lightweight flywheel on the back of their S54 and have no issues - and then it seems there are a handful that see some significant vibration. I checked the crank damper carefully when going over the engine; it looks new enough that it may have been replaced at some point. The engine had 93k on it when I got it.

    I've done a lot of reading about dampers and crank balance and second, third, fourth order vibrations. It certainly sounds like dual-mass flywheels can have a significant damping effect, but if the S54 is relying on that to combat crank resonance, why don't all S54s experience these vibrations when a lightweight flywheel is installed? Is my rotating assembly just on the outer edges of the tolerance range for balancing? Or is this actually happening to all S54s with lightweight flywheels, and it's just not being noticed (esp. in cars with stock mounts/seats/insulation/etc.)?

    One of the only other threads I found: https://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1539823

    If the stock flywheel fixes the vibration completely, I'll be purchasing a new OE Luk DMF and OE Sachs clutch, and the question becomes - which flywheel do I get? The E46 M3 uses one flywheel (Luk DMF050), the S54 Z3M and euro E36 M3s use another (DMF037), the S52 Z3/M3s use another (DMF073), and the '95 US M3 uses yet a different one (can't find the Luk number, only finding it as a BMW-branded part; may just be an older version of the 037). Only one of those setups revs to 8k from the factory - the Z3m S54 has a 7,500 RPM limiter, same as the euro S50s it shares a flywheel with. Coincidence? Probably; it's not like the vibration happens in the 7,500-8k range anyway. But unless I can get better information, I'll be using the stock E46 M3 flywheel.

    I'm very curious how you ended up solving this issue.
    Last edited by yellowltd; 08-16-2020 at 09:43 PM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Mandeville, LA
    Posts
    91
    My Cars
    17M240, 96M3,88M3sold
    Just was not happy with it. Changed to a tilton clutch. Problem solved. Smooth as silk.
    RVSIXDRIVER, 17 M240 '11' 128i 6MT, '96'M3/S54, '88'M3/S52 sold

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