(M60 Folks) Leaking HG??

[yukon101]

I have had a very concerning week. I replaced my rear accumulator gaskets and O-rings to fix a coolant leak. I am losing a lot of coolant still with no visible leak nor white clouds behind the car, there are no bubbles in the cooling system and it's not building pressure when cold, there is no oil mix in the coolant and is very clear. The oil cap has a very small spot of water/oil mix, the dipstick is very runny for being 20W50 but doesn't appear mixed. I pulled the rear PCV plate and there is a lot of pink mix inside. The car does not overheat and cabin heat is great. I have always thought an HG would mix both coolant and oil, not one way. The car idles very smooth and has no blow by in the crankcase. Thoughts? Hopefully, this is a super easy fix and I am not completely screwed.

[papa t]

Have you checked the valley pan gasket?

[moroza]

Headgaskets can leak in quite a variety of ways. They're meant to keep four (in the case of a V8) different combustion pressure zones, ambient air, oil pressure, oil return, and coolant all apart from each other, resulting in a lot of combinations for failure.

I have no idea what the pink stuff on the PCV plate would be. Those typically fail by blowing by brownish oil.

Does it lose coolant just sitting? What type of coolant and what's the coolant/water ratio? How's your sense of smell? Have you checked for leaks inside the cabin, from the heatercore or related plumbing?

[yukon101]

No coolant loss while sitting, BMW 50/50 mix. I can smell great, dipstick smells like oil and not coolant. I've felt all around the cabin and underneath all hoses and lines in the engine bay.

[yukon101]

I think the pink oil in the intake is from the mix of my old oil which was Castrol 10w40 conventional for winter combined with my new Amsoil 20w50 full synthetic. Then the very small bit on the oil cap was from doing a bunch of short trips before I fixed my coolant leak. The oil level was exactly where it should be too.IMG_20180323_120028.jpgIMG_20180320_124901.jpgIMG_20180322_095419.jpg

[yukon101]

I rolled the dice and drove the car to work yesterday, got it nice and hot and bounced off redline once to get everything all cleaned out. Checked the oil level this morning and it was exactly where it should be. Coolant level went down a little which I am chalking up to be just residual air in the system as it was not nearly as much as the first time I took it out.

[moroza]

I replaced my rear accumulator gaskets and O-rings to fix a coolant leak

residual air in the system

I don't know how I missed it that it might be as simple as incomplete bleeding.

[yukon101]

I don't know how I missed it that it might be as simple as incomplete bleeding.

I wish it were... I just got home peered underneath the car and see quite a bit of drippage. It is not coming from the top end, from what I can tell based on there being coolant "everywhere" is that A. Trans cooler B. Rear cover gasket C. Trans cooler lines.
A. I have not heard of a cracked trans cooler and I would imagine that it would leak without pressure in the system but I seem to get all the oddball problems even according to my euro mechanic (BMW master tech of 20 years that I only use when I really can't figure stuff out).
B. From what I hear rear cover gaskets leak all the time and over a "long" period so I think I am clear of this guy
C. Hard to really tell, there's coolant on the trans drain plug, halfway down the oil cooler, subframe, and the swaybar
D. I have looked at the weep holes for the valley pan multiple times and there is no coolant at either
Heres some pics (yes my rear main is leaking)
IMG_20180324_115426.jpgIMG_20180324_115416.jpgIMG_20180324_120121.jpgIMG_20180324_115409.jpgIMG_20180324_115412.jpg

[M540fella]

I had a trans cooler on my f150 go bad a few months ago. The cooler is in the radiator on it. The coolant looked similar to what you had in your intake.

Sent from my LG-LS997 using Tapatalk

[e30luv318i]

Its worth spending some money and getting a pressure tester. You can adleast see if the system is holding pressure

[moroza]

I don't see any coolant, just oil

[yukon101]

Its worth spending some money and getting a pressure tester. You can adleast see if the system is holding pressure

It has held pressure overnight without much complaint.

I don't see any coolant, just oil

In the first picture you can see the green/blue on the bottom of the trans cooler.

[jehu]

day i drove my first 540 home there was coolant dripping from a location I hadn't found and I freaked thinking I had blown the head gasket.

I came on here and was informed basically nobody had ever heard of an M60 HG failing ever.. turns out it was the seal on the aux water pump..

just rolled 360,000 on my third and probably have around an actual 500,000 miles combined on three I have owned since 2006 and still never a hint of a HG failure.. now watch it blow out tomorrow..lol

[yukon101]

I knew it was extremely rare for M60 head gaskets to fail, it was a combination of things that threw me for a spin. Two weeks ago when I did my oil change I took the lower oil pan off to take a look at the oil pump and I saw a little creamy paste up in a corner, I initially just shrugged it off as condensation until I saw a hint under the oil cap. Turns out its still just condensation lol. I was looking at pictures of the head gasket on these engines and saw they only had 4 coolant ports and the distance between the oil and coolant ports was pretty substantial so I jumped on here. I came from having a Northstar engine before this where they'll blow the head gasket if you look at them the wrong way (bit more than that, can elaborate why in DM if wanted).

From looking at the photos I am assuming that its leaking from the coolant pipes going into the trans cooler since there is O-rings inside but when I get home ill lift it up and look around, hopefully it is as simple as that and not a cracked $800 trans cooler.

[yukon101]

It might be the valley pan... I tried to reseal it when I had the intake off but no amount of prying or hammering would get it loose. I tried looking at it from a few different angles and it didn't look like it was high enough to leak out the weep hole. From the looks of where it was leaking, it looked like it would either be the rear cover or the valley pan. The water in the valley pan could also just be residual from when I filled it and didn't pay much attention.
IMG_20180325_141045.jpg

[jehu]

at the risk of sounding dumb you do know the valley pan is BOLTED down might? You mean you couldn't lift it off after removing all the bolts? That would blow my mind.

[yukon101]

Oh yes, I know it is bolted down. I undid all the bolts and wouldn't come loose, I could get a small little bit of the corner to move up but that was it. I went out there and checked again and that corner no longer has water... So it looks like I will have to redo my job again. I have always heard a valley pan only leaks just a little bit, my leak is just about draining my res every time. Wouldnt it leak without pressure too?

[yukon101]

I am sitting here thinking, how likely is it that I might have screwed up the o-rings upon installation?

[jehu]

Oh yes, I know it is bolted down. I undid all the bolts and wouldn't come loose, I could get a small little bit of the corner to move up but that was it. I went out there and checked again and that corner no longer has water... So it looks like I will have to redo my job again. I have always heard a valley pan only leaks just a little bit, my leak is just about draining my res every time. Wouldnt it leak without pressure too?

yah if I recall my valley pan leak it leaks parked... you usually replace the pan as well as the gasket/seal/ plastic cover so I wouldn't worry about mutilating it trying to get it off.. one thing you could do to check if you are pissing antifreeze into your engine somehow is get a Used Oil Analysis done which will tell you if they find any antifreeze in the oil ..

one other stray thought since you mentioned doing the Intake manifold gaskets did you do the O rings on the water pipes to the rear water manifold? also that rubber hose back there is leaking on mine I also get a weeping from the upper radiator neck which may have a fine crack and often find residue under it.

[yukon101]

Nothing I tried would get that pan off so I just let it be. I have checked the oil level a few times to be on the safe side and it hasn't budged and there is no more slight mix under the cap so im 99% sure HG are fine. I did do the o rings to the rear manifold but I didn't really lube them (rushed to get it done). I also replaced the coolant res with a known good one. I just replaced the radiator but it is not leaking, I felt underneath and looked at it too and it is completely dry.

After driving home today I see that the coolant is dripping at/around the bell housing/coupling, I did retighten the transmission cooler lines at the top and one took another turn and a half and the other felt a little moist on the bottom only took about half a turn.

[yukon101]

I kinda crawled under and took some more pictures because I don't have the patience to jack up the car.
IMG_20180325_190353.jpgIMG_20180325_190135.jpg The first picture is where from what I can see that it was dripping down.

[yukon101]

Drove to work today and checked the weep hole on the passenger side again and it has water, so it looks like my valley pan is leaking a lot more than they usually do and only under pressure.

[530IT]

I haven't seen the rear cover gasket mentioned.
Here is a realoem.com link. Look at gasket #6 and cover#5.
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=11_1510

This cover is on the back of the motor behind the flexplate, not a fun job to do either.
Here is hoping that it's as simple as a valley cover gasket for you.

[yukon101]

I have heard of a rear cover leak but is extremely rare and leaks very slowly.

I took my intake off (third time on this car and took 20 minutes) and low and behold there was water next to the valley pan. I moved the smaller coolant pipe too and heard a small depressurization (right after driving and was still super hot even with giant leather gloves) looked at the bottom of the pipe and see that it was leaking too. Popped the accumulator off again and see that that o-ring is partially destroyed. Unbolted the valley pan and 5 bolt heads snapped off with no torque and the valley pan was still absolutely stuck to the block. I tried prying with a screw driver and could get maybe 1mm of play, I eventually got upset took out my large screw driver pried up and shoved the back of a hammer between it and the block and just kept continuously applying upward pressure until a very loud pop. Surprisingly I have the original valley pan with separate gasket and neither the block nor the pan were marred at all. Unsurprisingly the old gasket is coming apart in a million pieces. I have ordered a new gasket and a new o-ring to rise this beast again this time without a coolant leak.

[moroza]

What a mess. At least you're out of the Mystery phase of the matter.