Sway bars vs spring rates.

[Tom D]

......205/50/15 and 225/45/15

...........you'll find the rearend is more planted with that staggered setup .....

i do track days and not autoX so i can't speak for old man's (staggered setup) and sonoma's big dog look and how it handles, but for track work and everyday surface roads a staggered tire combo will kill the handling. the problem is that the E21 plows like a pig and adding more rubber to the back will make it plow worse.

personally i like to be able to rotate the rear and apparently so does sonoma, which is why he added a bigger rear bar, but in reality he is simply trying to correct the fault of having wider rear tires.

[Retoropak]

i do track days and not autoX so i can't speak for old man's (staggered setup) and sonoma's big dog look and how it handles, but for track work and everyday surface roads a staggered tire combo will kill the handling. the problem is that the E21 plows like a pig and adding more rubber to the back will make it plow worse.

personally i like to be able to rotate the rear and apparently so does sonoma, which is why he added a bigger rear bar, but in reality he is simply trying to correct the fault of having wider rear tires.

It will be mainly a street duty car with occasional autocross and a track day. On top of that i will replace the tire/wheel combo for 2019 season when i finish my e36 front suspension swap and e28 rear with the medium case diff.

I might look into running square wheel/tire setup then.

I believe thats what the BMW did to e36m3 for the 1996 model year. Car was to tail-happy so they fitted it with staggered setup and i think reduce the front camber.


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[sonomaGTLN2]

i do track days and not autoX so i can't speak for old man's (staggered setup) and sonoma's big dog look and how it handles, but for track work and everyday surface roads a staggered tire combo will kill the handling. the problem is that the E21 plows like a pig and adding more rubber to the back will make it plow worse.

personally i like to be able to rotate the rear and apparently so does sonoma, which is why he added a bigger rear bar, but in reality he is simply trying to correct the fault of having wider rear tires.

I should clarify that I'm running about -2 Degrees camber on the front and not adjusting for camber in the rear by lowering ~1-2". The camber plates in front made a huge difference with how much front grip I could maintain between 0 ~ 40 mph in autox and keeping it neutral, and at 50+ MPH on a higher speed banked turn we generally have at the track we autox on, the rear end starts stepping controllably out as the speed increases which is exactly what I was going for.

Our course configurations vary from weekend to weekend, but they usually have one sweeping higher speed banked turn so I tried to get balance between tight and setting up for high speed exit into tighter turns. YMMV as I've set up my car to suit courses like in the video below. On tight interstate interchange clovers with smooth surfaces I can get to about 70mph on a good weather day before I run out of courage ...rearend stays pretty planted on the lower clover banks. If I ever get a cage in this car I want to see how it handles at an actual road course...probably would need to make some suspension tuning changes as a result.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02HrEcjYJSs

[Retoropak]

With the rear springs we have found the car is way more driveable and quicker in the corner if the inside front tire in a turn comes up off the ground a LITTLE.

Do you have a picture of the top mounts? I am planning to run koni 30s and i am looking for mounting options


Thanks





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[OLD MAN]

For the top mounts I made them too long first time - at ride height I only had an 1.5" of compression left in the shock so I shortened them after the first outing.

AS2- 4.jpg AS2- 7.jpg AS2- 9.jpg

[Retoropak]

For the top mounts I made them too long first time - at ride height I only had an 1.5" of compression left in the shock so I shortened them after the first outing.

AS2- 4.jpg AS2- 7.jpg AS2- 9.jpg

Awesome

I got these and 4" diameter 1/4" plates




My buddy have koni 30s in his volvo 242. 15.75 long with 5" stroke.


Ill test fit em first.


There is also 18.25" long with 6" stroke. But they might be too long.





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[OLD MAN]

Retoropak those look great I might change to them now I know I they do not need to be so long.

I did a lot of measuring and figuring before getting the length I did, 16" just made the most since for the ride height I wanted and 5" of travel is more then enough for auto-x and track days with the stiffer suspension set up.

[Retoropak]

My suspension project is doomed.

At first i was shooting for billies sports all around with coilover sleeves.
Fronts are backordered everywhere.

So i started thinking about koni setup but the front strut tubes are 45mm

So i decided to chop the tubes and weld 51mm ones.

And now the rear konis are backordered.


How about QA1s proma star?

I was thinking single adjustables.

Anybody running these shocks?


Thanks







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[autox320]

My suspension project is doomed.

At first i was shooting for billies sports all around with coilover sleeves.
Fronts are backordered everywhere.

So i started thinking about koni setup but the front strut tubes are 45mm

So i decided to chop the tubes and weld 51mm ones.

And now the rear konis are backordered.


How about QA1s proma star?

I was thinking single adjustables.

Anybody running these shocks?


Thanks







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Fronts for VW are avail just about anywhere; you'd want the B8 performance plus
7269-05390473 from a 84 GTI are what most use and what I bought; they are almost 4? inches shorter I'd have to look back at my notes in the build

[Retoropak]

Fronts for VW are avail just about anywhere; you'd want the B8 performance plus
7269-05390473 from a 84 GTI are what most use and what I bought; they are almost 4? inches shorter I'd have to look back at my notes in the build

I know you're not a big fan of konis.

I drove 242 with 8610s up front and 30s in the back and they are absolutely beautiful. I believe 300/225 spring wise. It was planted and firm yet not extremely harsh.



So here are the options.

Option 1
Mk1 gti bilstein sports up front
E21 bilstein sports rears
350/400lbs eibach springs
A1 sleeves
Ebay universal camber plates

Total: around $1000-1100

Option 2:

Koni race single adjustables 8610 with shortened struts
Koni 30 single adjustable rears
Eibach 350/400lbs springs
A1 sleeves
Ebay universal camber plates
Custom welded rear mounts

Total: $1200-1250

Primary use is weekend driver with occasional autocross.

Note that i don't mind slight overkill and excessive spring rates and extremely uncomfortable rides.

I have tilton twin clutch ( read on/off switch) on 170hp car.

Thanks







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[Tom D]

i'm a fan of koni's and no the VW spec'ed koni's will not fit in a 45mm strut. however do not fret, i'm running koni yellows in my 45mm's.

[Retoropak]

i'm a fan of koni's and no the VW spec'ed koni's will not fit in a 45mm strut. however do not fret, i'm running koni yellows in my 45mm's.

Oh i know they wont fit. Koni race are 43.5mm diameter and e21 320i housings are 40.1xx ID.

I am going to chop 45mm tubes and weld some 51mm.


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[Tom D]

koni explained to me that the VW guys were complaining that the dampers were rattling around inside the struts so koni enlarged the damper by a few millimeters to appease them. however there's really no need to upsize your struts, you can buy koni's that slip right in. i know this to be true because i did it.

[Retoropak]

koni explained to me that the VW guys were complaining that the dampers were rattling around inside the struts so koni enlarged the damper by a few millimeters to appease them. however there's really no need to upsize your struts, you can buy koni's that slip right in. i know this to be true because i did it.

Koni sports will fit.


Koni race inserts will not. Need 51mm struts.




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[Tom D]

this goes back a few years, but i believe koni told me they can convert single adjustable yellows to dual adjustables. not trying to argue with you, but there might be an easier way then welding new tubes.

is your plan to use e21 323 struts? if not then what do you plan for the cap?

[Retoropak]

this goes back a few years, but i believe koni told me they can convert single adjustable yellows to dual adjustables. not trying to argue with you, but there might be an easier way then welding new tubes.

is your plan to use e21 323 struts? if not then what do you plan for the cap?

Nah welding tubes is fairly easy. Even with 323 i would have to shorten them a bit. If i go with konis ill use e30 or volvo tubes


Yes i believe koni yellows (sport) can be converted to dual adjustables.




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[m60b30530i]

My suspension project is doomed.

At first i was shooting for billies sports all around with coilover sleeves.
Fronts are backordered everywhere.

So i started thinking about koni setup but the front strut tubes are 45mm

So i decided to chop the tubes and weld 51mm ones.

And now the rear konis are backordered.


How about QA1s proma star?

I was thinking single adjustables.

Anybody running these shocks?


Thanks







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I am running Koni race 8610 in the front and qa1 proma stars in the rear. Been running this setup for couple of years now.

[Retoropak]

I am running Koni race 8610 in the front and qa1 proma stars in the rear. Been running this setup for couple of years now.

How do you like qa1s?


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[m60b30530i]

How do you like qa1s?


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They work well running 320lb eibach springs. Also a little hint I happened to have race land coilovers from a mk4 vw. Turns out the front strut tubes the Koni 8610 fit perfectly in. I ended up chopping these and my e21 tubes and welding them. They are already threaded for coil overs.