Starting issues: ‘82 320i

[lsvco.]

Started a build thread a few days ago but figured I’d start a thread dedicated to the issues the car is having and seek advice.

Purchased the car +/- a week ago and have been sorting through the usual suspects for a no start.

Car cranks over healthy but nothing after that. I’ve checked to make sure fuel is getting to the distributor, confirmed spark plugs, wires, cap and rotor are in good condition. Rotor rotates when cranked. CSV is working properly, tested it into a mason jar while cranking the engine over.

Next steps are to check fuel going to the injectors, and just want to make sure I’m on the right path...

Injectors will only receive fuel when the air baffle is lifted, correct? I removed my air intake and found this in the boot.....



Thanks for the help in advance.

[epmedia]

Started a build thread a few days ago but figured I’d start a thread dedicated to the issues the car is having and seek advice.

Purchased the car +/- a week ago and have been sorting through the usual suspects for a no start.

Car cranks over healthy but nothing after that. I’ve checked to make sure fuel is getting to the distributor, confirmed spark plugs, wires, cap and rotor are in good condition. Rotor rotates when cranked. CSV is working properly, tested it into a mason jar while cranking the engine over.

Next steps are to check fuel going to the injectors, and just want to make sure I’m on the right path...

Injectors will only receive fuel when the air baffle is lifted, correct? I removed my air intake and found this in the boot.....

Thanks for the help in advance.

Caution: if the fuel distributor has not been used for a long time, it's possible the fuel meter/piston is stuck! Do Not force the airflow meter(baffle) to raise, or you can make the piston/plunger get stuck worse! A stuck fuel meter/piston can flood the engine with fuel too, and badly!

Assuming the airflow meter is at proper rest position and the fuel mix is not adjusted too rich (or no issues with the fuel distributor), then yes - the meter plate(baffle) must be raised for fuel to spray out the main fuel injectors. Of course - the fuel system must have at least 45 psi to do this (the injectors begin to open at ~45psi, fuel 'system' pressure is ~64-74psi).

A little oily grime is common inside the intake. It's possible for a little fuel to get in there if the engine has a back-fire.

You want to check for spark at the plugs and proper firing order too (first remove the fuel pump fuse). fyi: the 1.8l ignition dist turns CCW, 1342.

Don't flood the engine with fuel. fyi: If you ever hear the injectors whistle when the engine is not running - the engine is flooding with fuel. I noticed your spark plugs looked a little wet - this may be too much fuel, or bad/incorrect sparks. *if the cold start valve is working and good sparks at the plugs are present - the engine will typically run from this little bit of fuel for a couple seconds.

[lsvco.]

Caution: if the fuel distributor has not been used for a long time, it's possible the fuel meter/piston is stuck! Do Not force the airflow meter(baffle) to raise, or you can make the piston/plunger get stuck worse! A stuck fuel meter/piston can flood the engine with fuel too, and badly!

Assuming the airflow meter is at proper rest position and the fuel mix is not adjusted too rich (or no issues with the fuel distributor), then yes - the meter plate(baffle) must be raised for fuel to spray out the main fuel injectors. Of course - the fuel system must have at least 45 psi to do this (the injectors begin to open at ~45psi, fuel 'system' pressure is ~64-74psi).

A little oily grime is common inside the intake. It's possible for a little fuel to get in there if the engine has a back-fire.

You want to check for spark at the plugs and proper firing order too (first remove the fuel pump fuse). fyi: the 1.8l ignition dist turns CCW, 1342.

Don't flood the engine with fuel. fyi: If you ever hear the injectors whistle when the engine is not running - the engine is flooding with fuel. I noticed your spark plugs looked a little wet - this may be too much fuel, or bad/incorrect sparks. *if the cold start valve is working and good sparks at the plugs are present - the engine will typically run from this little bit of fuel for a couple seconds.

Thanks epmedia, I’ll have to remember to pull the fuel pump fuse as I’m sure the engine already needs a good airing out. I’ve only cranked a couple times with the fuel lines attach to verify rotor and bits are working correctly but who knows how much it was cranked by P.O. to identify issues.

I did notice that the PO was using NGK spark plugs and figured buying OEM plugs would help, but haven’t wanted to start adding or changing parts until I verify what is wrong in the first place.

I tested spark plugs and wires with an ohms meter and the wires came out to 5.7-5.9k ohms regardless of length, which I thought was odd after reading up and noting that the longer the wire the higher the ohms reading should be.

The spark plugs came in at around 4.** ohms, just under 5k (will confirm tonight exact readings) but I haven’t tested gap to see whether they were within spec either.

[lsvco.]

Update: tested for spark using a spark ignitor/tester and am getting spark on all four cylinders.

Which leads me back to believe it’s a fuel issue. Didn’t mention before but someone on my build thread pointed out I have connectors from the driveability or “hot start kit”. If this is incomplete would it affect initial startup?

I also went to do a compression test while the plugs were out and was having a hard time getting the adapter to thread or seat properly in the spark plug holes. Using the innova 3612 compression tester if I’m not mistaking.

[OLD MAN]

What year is it?

The 80 thru 83 models will not start if there is a vacuum leak. Mine will not start if the oil dip stick is out some and all the large diameter vacuum lines get hard and crack fast.

On cold starts the engine will not start if the cold start injector is not working correctly.

The old wiring on our cars effects all engine functions especially cold and hot starts. On one of my e21s I have put a push on toggle switch on the cold start injector.

[eqrock]

When I bought my 1983 320i it didn't run either, I had a similar problem in that it had fuel and spark but I couldn't get more than a few sputters. It turned out to be getting too much fuel, I was able to adjust the fuel distributor to provide a leaner mixture. With less fuel it finally started, but in my case there was too much fuel because the seals inside the FD were bad and had to be replaced before it would run.

Hope this helps!

[lsvco.]

What year is it?

The 80 thru 83 models will not start if there is a vacuum leak. Mine will not start if the oil dip stick is out some and all the large diameter vacuum lines get hard and crack fast.

On cold starts the engine will not start if the cold start injector is not working correctly.

The old wiring on our cars effects all engine functions especially cold and hot starts. On one of my e21s I have put a push on toggle switch on the cold start injector.

1982, will have to start looking through for vacuum leaks. I do know the line that runs to the valve cover has cracks at the base/clamp.

I have tested the cold start valve via a jar test and it was spraying fuel appropriately from what I could tell. Thank you for the guidance!

When I bought my 1983 320i it didn't run either, I had a similar problem in that it had fuel and spark but I couldn't get more than a few sputters. It turned out to be getting too much fuel, I was able to adjust the fuel distributor to provide a leaner mixture. With less fuel it finally started, but in my case there was too much fuel because the seals inside the FD were bad and had to be replaced before it would run.

Hope this helps!

Have been contemplating taking out the fuel distributor on my next day off and just giving it a thorough cleaning and making sure the fuel meter isn’t stuck as EP suggested.

I may be completely off but is it possible to spray starter fluid into the ports where the fuel injectors would normally go? Would that identify that there is an issue somewhere between fuel flowing to the distributor and fuel reaching the block?

Thank you again!

[eqrock]

To me, it seems easiest to just replace all the engine vacuum hoses from the get-go, that way you can eliminate them from any future troubleshooting. As these engine rely heavily on the vacuum system. They are not too hard to get to, and they are not terribly expensive, I was able to use silicone hoses instead of some the unique bends.

Regarding the starting fluid idea, it sounds a little dangerous, if your FD is over-fueling and you do get it to spark and turn over you run the risk of igniting any leftover gasoline in the crankcase, which could find its way through the holes in the head where the injectors should go. I think you'd be better off testing the fuel flow from the main injectors, the same way you did the cold start injector, (with the ignition system disabled) if you've not already done it. I might be overly cautious here, but I've had enough mishaps with K-jet to give it substantial fear/ respect.

I'm not sure what you could use to clean the FD, as I understand it, the O rings that seal the various chambers are delicate and prone to chemical degradation. If you don't mind the work to remove the FD and make sure to label the lines that connect to it, I don't think it would hurt to pull it off and look at the condition the plunger. If it's stuck you can try to lubricate it and get it to slide again, but if it won't move then you'll know if that FD has a bigger problem than just some old fuel varnish.
This is the bottom of my original FD, the plunger was stuck and I was able to get it moving again with some Tri-Flow (I'm sure any lubricant would work).

orig FD.jpg

[OLD MAN]

Forgot to say that the oil in the large intake boot going from the FD to the throttle body is normal, it gets sucked out of the valve cover breather. And it does work its way down to the FD plate and below.

There is a good thread on rebuilding the FD I have used it for two now - unfortunately all the great pictures are gone thanks to photo bucket.

https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?1123823-Fuel-Distributor-Rebuild-How-To

[lsvco.]

To me, it seems easiest to just replace all the engine vacuum hoses from the get-go, that way you can eliminate them from any future troubleshooting. As these engine rely heavily on the vacuum system. They are not too hard to get to, and they are not terribly expensive, I was able to use silicone hoses instead of some the unique bends.

Regarding the starting fluid idea, it sounds a little dangerous, if your FD is over-fueling and you do get it to spark and turn over you run the risk of igniting any leftover gasoline in the crankcase, which could find its way through the holes in the head where the injectors should go. I think you'd be better off testing the fuel flow from the main injectors, the same way you did the cold start injector, (with the ignition system disabled) if you've not already done it. I might be overly cautious here, but I've had enough mishaps with K-jet to give it substantial fear/ respect.

I'm not sure what you could use to clean the FD, as I understand it, the O rings that seal the various chambers are delicate and prone to chemical degradation. If you don't mind the work to remove the FD and make sure to label the lines that connect to it, I don't think it would hurt to pull it off and look at the condition the plunger. If it's stuck you can try to lubricate it and get it to slide again, but if it won't move then you'll know if that FD has a bigger problem than just some old fuel varnish.
This is the bottom of my original FD, the plunger was stuck and I was able to get it moving again with some Tri-Flow (I'm sure any lubricant would work).

orig FD.jpg

Thanks for all that info! Going to head home and hunt down a vacuum hose kit.

Ah, didn’t even think to test the injectors the same way as CSV. Will have to look into that.

[lsvco.]

Made some progress and pulled the fuel distributor, intake housing(?) and some other things. The side of the block is disgusting and just about everything needs cleaned so I figured I would pull everything and reinstall things based on factory diagrams as I see some hoses and things that don’t look oem.

Concerned about a stuck valve, but please correct me if I am wrong. In cylinder 1 the valve is sitting far lower than the other three valves. Will upload photos later.

I also realized that although the intake manifold is unbolted there is wiring the runs through it and into the passenger side of the firewall, I’m assuming it joins to the jettronic ecu behind the glovebox. Is there an easier way to remove the manifold other than to unplug that wire and pull it through the firewall?

[epmedia]

Made some progress and pulled the fuel distributor, intake housing(?) and some other things. The side of the block is disgusting and just about everything needs cleaned so I figured I would pull everything and reinstall things based on factory diagrams as I see some hoses and things that don’t look oem.

Concerned about a stuck valve, but please correct me if I am wrong. In cylinder 1 the valve is sitting far lower than the other three valves. Will upload photos later.

I also realized that although the intake manifold is unbolted there is wiring the runs through it and into the passenger side of the firewall, I’m assuming it joins to the jettronic ecu behind the glovebox. Is there an easier way to remove the manifold other than to unplug that wire and pull it through the firewall?

It's normal for a valve to be open, this means the #1 cylinder is on it's 'intake' stroke. Unless the valve is stuck in the open position. You can turn the engine (by hand) and watch the valves move.

You have to disconnect the wire harness and pull it through as you say.

[lsvco.]

It's normal for a valve to be open, this means the #1 cylinder is on it's 'intake' stroke. Unless the valve is stuck in the open position. You can turn the engine (by hand) and watch the valves move.

You have to disconnect the wire harness and pull it through as you say.

That’s good to know, will have to pull that harness out tonight and get to cleaning!