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Thread: Another M50 Turbo build - E30 Chassis

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotdish View Post
    Page 3, section 2.2:1: "Circuits that share power with the vehicle’s stereo, ignition system, ECU, lighting, or fuel pump should not be used." I was thinking this means both power and ground.

    I can't find it in the manual, but it looks like setting the MAPdot or TPSdot threshold to max is how a lot of people disable AE.
    Yea I think that's mostly just referring to avoiding interference again, my earth should be okay.

    Nice, yup that would definitely do it. Thanks for this, I'll give both those things a try. I'm going back at it tonight

  2. #27
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    Brief Update: Still struggling to get it to run nicely

    I've tried lots of different things so far with not much luck, here's what I've changed so far:
    *VE table - I'll post a new one up soon.
    *Added wideband authority - tried up to 20%, after getting the VE table right I've heard its okay to leave this on at 5%-10%.
    *updated injector deadtimes to .786ms (should be correct now)
    *updated knock sensor details (does anyone have preferred settings for this or a way to test and see if its getting a signal without the obvious idea of purposely introducing knock!) I'm using the "internal" setting for the stock knock sensors, stock wiring. hoping the PNP MS pays off! lol
    *disabled Idle VE - (BTW I figured out that the this is the reason it was initially so rich at idle and changing the VE table didn't seem to have any effect... I now trust that my wideband.. once I get in the area of 13's my exhaust looks nice and clean and car idles smooth)

    Here's what I know and what is consistent no matter what I change:
    *car starts up and idles no problem, will idle all day around 13.8 once it warms up
    *Idles just north or 20hg. no surging, idles fine. I tested for vacuum leaks. found nothing concerning, I could bring a smoke tester home from work if need be but I dont suspect vacuum leaks.
    *once it warms up it will start then die immediately unless you ease the throttle. (I assume I just need to add more "afterstart enrichments"... not a big concern of mine until the rest is worked out)
    *if I ease it (and I mean, really really ease it!... its a real touchy ease) to any rpm I can manually adjust my VE numbers and get the AFR where I want it... I'm almost always too rich and it needs to be leaned up a bit
    *upon any rpm changes I get extreme lean spots... even when trying to ease!... if I go too fast, it bogs and stalls. even if I don't go too fast, it may still bog and stall..
    *same goes for letting off the throttle, it will lean + bog if you dont ease it down..... once I get on a specific rpm it seems to handle it just fine and timing seems fine, no hot spots on the turbo from being to retarded, no kickbacks or obvious knocking from being too advanced.


    I've tried playing with the accel enrichments slightly but I have been told by numerous people that you should be able to tune the VE table with Accel enrichments off entirely... which is the stage I'm stuck on.... so I feel like something is wrong elsewhere and I'm not sure what.... Im wondering if my injectors arent producing adequately.... got the injectors secondhand from a member here on the forum, they are genuine bosch and were known good and were working good for him.

    I also tried to datalog my entire session yesterday. but I didn't have checkbox "save this datalog as:" checked.... so stupid me, I guess it didn't save at all. seems odd, like why would someone start the datalogger if they didn't want to save the file! lol..... either way I'll actually datalog next time, hopefully that will help

    any other ideas, I'm very open to them! haha



    on the good side: I got my driveshaft and everything else worked out in the last week. she's ready to drive besides the tune issues
    Last edited by SirMaxximus; 04-18-2018 at 04:30 PM.

  3. #28
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    Tried again today. Same issues, but was able to get datalogger to work.

    Okay.. so here for example.. Throttle position goes from 0% to 2.3%... I've barely moved one cell.. MAP barely moved from 30 to 34kpa. Yet my AFR spiked lean from 13.8 to 17.5....... this minor of a change shouldnt justify such a major confusion within the system....


    Here's a different VE map... been trying to adjust things on it but havn't made it far off of idle... so the rest is pretty untested... I tried to curve it much richer right off the bat but AFR still spikes upon small changes... once it settles I can tune a particular cell
    Last edited by SirMaxximus; 04-18-2018 at 08:30 PM.

  4. #29
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    Do you log fuel pressure? If so post up the log. Maybe your FPR reference is screwed up. It needs to supply more pressure as vacuum decreases.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirMaxximus View Post
    Working off of screenshots never goes over well so maybe post up your datalog so we can download it... also your MS config while you're at it.

    That said...

    Right off the bat I can suggest 2 things... turn off EGO correction (it wants to/it is pull(ing) a ton of fuel (maxing out at 20%), and turn off over-run fueling (tps and map versions).

    Even with a somewhat poorly sorted VE table the car should still be able to run as long as it's not too lean (>15 or too rich <10).

    You also will want to look into why your CLT sensor is showing sharp dips.

    E36 DYNO TUNING WIRING PARTS

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by NOTORIOUS VR View Post
    Working off of screenshots never goes over well so maybe post up your datalog so we can download it... also your MS config while you're at it.

    That said...

    Right off the bat I can suggest 2 things... turn off EGO correction (it wants to/it is pull(ing) a ton of fuel (maxing out at 20%), and turn off over-run fueling (tps and map versions).

    Even with a somewhat poorly sorted VE table the car should still be able to run as long as it's not too lean (>15 or too rich <10).

    You also will want to look into why your CLT sensor is showing sharp dips.
    I noticed that CLT sensor dip too.. but the dip is only within 1 degree f so I'm not too concerned about it... it just shows it very zoomed in for some reason

    I actually made a bit of progress today, far more than I made the last couple times I started it up... I did try turning off EGO control and AE today when tuning.. I am still spiking lean everytime I give it light throttle but the whole 30-35kpa range is worlds better. was able to keep it alive and tune those areas much much better today though.. I would think Accel Enrichments would help with the spiking lean but it doesn't seem like I'm even hitting the gas enough to encounter AE.... If I go much more than 3% throttle change it really spikes.. but once it settles even in the same cell it spiked in I'm not lean at all..... thats what's confusing me... I can add fuel to those cells and the surrounding cells but then I'm just very rich once it settles. I datalogged quite a bit today I can post them up. But they are very long and I doubt anyone wants to sit through my hour of me trying to tune the 30-35kpa range. lol

    Either way I got that range pretty good, I also got it so it doesnt stall when you drop the throttle! so progress... I think next step is to put some light load on the car to get it out of the 35kpa range.... I was gonna do that tonight actually! dropped the car off the stands and I even got as far as the out of the garage! see photo



    but then it stalled on me and wouldnt start up again... I've been having an intermittent issue with the starter... It's a wiring issue to the solenoid, the S terminal is only seeing 7volts when cranking... Battery terminal is seeing 12+ tho, so it will start right up 10 times in a row then it randomly wont start for like an hour cause it feels like being picky..... I'm gonna pull the manifold back off this weekend and figure out where the resistance is... it would really suck to get stranded while trying to tune just because the starter is acting up.... anyways, it seemed the car was telling me it wasn't ready for load yet! lol

    (and yes... there is still snow on the ground in april in minnesota... dont remind me)
    Last edited by SirMaxximus; 04-20-2018 at 12:33 AM.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheJuggernaut View Post
    Do you log fuel pressure? If so post up the log. Maybe your FPR reference is screwed up. It needs to supply more pressure as vacuum decreases.
    The FPR is 100% mechanical, so I don't think megasquirt really knows or cares whats going on with it... I did check the vacuum line on it, all seems to be good. I replaced the FPR when I first got the car too because it was leaking, so the one thats in there isn't too old and was operating well when I parked it

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirMaxximus View Post
    The FPR is 100% mechanical, so I don't think megasquirt really knows or cares whats going on with it... I did check the vacuum line on it, all seems to be good. I replaced the FPR when I first got the car too because it was leaking, so the one thats in there isn't too old and was operating well when I parked it
    I don't know if megasquirt cares but you should certainly care what your fuel pressure is doing.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheJuggernaut View Post
    I don't know if megasquirt cares but you should certainly care what your fuel pressure is doing.
    Eliminating unknown variables is never a bad idea.


  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheJuggernaut View Post
    I don't know if megasquirt cares but you should certainly care what your fuel pressure is doing.
    I agree entirely. I wasn't trying to say that your thought wasn't appreciated. I have a mechanical gauge I can hook up and check my fuel pressure with, it would be nice to confirm. But I know it for sure it was working before I parked it

  11. #36
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    Still having the same problem... I took a shorter datalog to share. Engines already fully warmed up, datalog starts at idle. I mostly just tried to give it a few light throttle changes from idle and a major lean spike that happens... its bad enough that the engine will stumble, surge and stall upon most throttle changes. it stalls out several times near the end of the log actually... I've tried richening up the surrounding cells alot.. probably too much as the cells just above idle has a much larger VE value now and is not very smooth transition, but nothing seems to stop this major lean spike... If anyone has time and is willing to look them over I would greatly appreciate any input.

    Links to the datalog + MS configuration from my google drive account:

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1O6hQWpG1pp_NS09TJJk_weKtFOz4yhur/view?usp=sharing


    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1oP2...ew?usp=sharing


    Notes: EGO control is 5% here, AE is time-based, over-run is off. I've tried all 3 of these at different settings or off entirely. This seems to have the least likelihood of stalling out for me at the moment.

    Things I've tried recently:
    Removing + cleaning injectors
    Checking vacuum leaks
    All sorts of AE settings + changes
    All sorts of VE settings + changes

    Things on my list to try next:
    Check fuel pressure with gauge
    Last edited by SirMaxximus; 04-22-2018 at 06:18 PM.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirMaxximus View Post
    Still having the same problem... I took a shorter datalog to share. Engines already fully warmed up, datalog starts at idle. I mostly just tried to give it a few light throttle changes from idle and a major lean spike that happens... its bad enough that the engine will stumble, surge and stall upon most throttle changes. it stalls out several times near the end of the log actually... I've tried richening up the surrounding cells alot.. probably too much as the cells just above idle has a much larger VE value now and is not very smooth transition, but nothing seems to stop this major lean spike... If anyone has time and is willing to look them over I would greatly appreciate any input.

    Links to the datalog + MS configuration from my google drive account:

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1O6hQWpG1pp_NS09TJJk_weKtFOz4yhur/view?usp=sharing


    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1oP2...ew?usp=sharing


    Notes: EGO control is 5% here, AE is time-based, over-run is off. I've tried all 3 of these at different settings or off entirely. This seems to have the least likelihood of stalling out for me at the moment.

    Things I've tried recently:
    Removing + cleaning injectors
    Checking vacuum leaks
    All sorts of AE settings + changes
    All sorts of VE settings + changes

    Things on my list to try next:
    Check fuel pressure with gauge
    As far as I can tell in your log you have no AE going on at all - like 0 ms are being added when you open the throttle. I took a quick look at your msq... I'm no MS pro but I would switch from time based AE to throttle based AE for starters.

    Otherwise I don't see anything really wrong. I would again suggest you disable EGO correction completely it will make it easier to spot issues. You really don't need EGO correction right now.

    E36 DYNO TUNING WIRING PARTS

  13. #38
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    HUGE UPDATE:


    All the issue's I was having with the tune are completely worked out! Got the car up and driving on the road today, drove it for about two hours letting autotune trim a ton of fat! Boost comes on quick and pulls really solid! Completely stoked! engine sounds good and healthy, exhaust sounds fantastic! Today was a big day!


    I have a 7lb spring in my wastegate and the manual boost controller set all the way down.. Wastegate seems to work great, goes to about 6psi and holds strong on every pull, no spike! no creep! holds good.


    Notorious VR you were totally right, AE wasn't even engaging in those Datalogs... I needed to turn the threshold way way down and bump up my AE added% way up in order to get it going and stay alive... otherwise it just leaned out trying to get it into gear or moving... At the end of the day, my VE table was just that far off and causing all of my issues.. I also live in a neighborhood within the city, so lots of stop signs and lights everywhere... finding a long unpopulated road was really the key for getting the tune right. It was a scary process trying to get the car to a better road and for the first 15 mins or so, had some scary lean spikes, but it got much much better very fast once I was able to do some controlled pulls with light throttle changes I was able to change alot of those cells and it made a world of difference in everything.. I'm actually quite impressed with autotune now, it sorted alot out pretty quick.


    I idled it so much in the garage the last two weeks and drove so much today I had to stop and get gas near the end of the drive!





    Big huge thanks to everyone thats commented and given advice, looked at my tune and datalogs! Texted me and reached out with advice, it hasn't gone unappreciated! Thank you, still plenty left to do with this project but today was a big accomplishment and I finally got to just enjoy driving it!

  14. #39
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    Nice to see you got it sorted and enjoying the boost.
    I had the same M50tu turbo set up in my daily E30 on 7lbs, it was a blast to drive and reliable.
    My manifolds powering 8sec and over 1000rwp cars
    Home of the highest HP stock M30 in the world 550rwhp/622rwtq
    1/4 mile---> 9.81 @138 C4 Auto
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  15. #40
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    Glad to hear it's sorted and you're able to tune and enjoy it!

    E36 DYNO TUNING WIRING PARTS

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by good & tight View Post
    Nice to see you got it sorted and enjoying the boost.
    I had the same M50tu turbo set up in my daily E30 on 7lbs, it was a blast to drive and reliable.
    Quote Originally Posted by NOTORIOUS VR View Post
    Glad to hear it's sorted and you're able to tune and enjoy it!
    Thanks guys! Been driving it around all weekend and tuning and adjusting things slowly as well. Tune is feeling very solid now! Megasquirt is truly awesome! really pleased with how much control I have over everything. I upped the boost to 8psi yesterday, it will stay there for awhile. Car feels absolutely great otherwise, idles perfect and rev's out perfect, pulls like a train even only with 8psi! Totally enjoyable to drive all around. Put the front apron on and trimmed it up to fit the intercooler!



    Also put my ES badge back on, gotta stay loyal to your roots


  17. #42
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    Well guys.... as you get more and more comfortable with a car and push it harder and harder its inevitable that you'll find the weakest link. I snapped an axle last weekend! Feels like true race car problems! lol


    Luckily my buddie Justin was nearby and was able to gimme a pull in his ever so dependable Volvo



    Also my buddie Gabe was nice enough to let me steal his garage for a week while I found a part, towing all the way back to my house would have not been very easy. Good to have friends.



    was told by a few e30 drift guys to not even bother with an aftermarket one as they hold together even worse than a used crusty OEM... so hopefully I was just a bit unlucky and here goes in another used OEM one I got from my local guy this week.



    In all truthfulness, I was trying to be a bit of a show off and fishtailing around a corner when this happened, I think the tires just bite at high enough rpm to cause enough shock to the driveline.... but in hindsight, its nice to know the rest of my build is holding together under some abuse.

  18. #43
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    Back at it: The E30 held pretty solid at 10 psi all summer long! It's now winter and we are back at building it!


    I want to turn it up the boost to about 14-16psi, then do a dyno-tune session next spring and have the car pretty much be done motor wise. I've thought alot on the different options, E85 / headgasket spacer / meth... honestly I think any of these could probably get me where I wanted... I decided to do the headgasket spacer, I think this is the most simple answer as I wont have to go out of my way for e85 stations, and I also want to fix a timing cover leak thats been giving me trouble and I think this will be the most future proof answer as well....




    So here we go:


    A few pics I snapped before parking











    Cams come off











    I've never timed a bmw i6... seems pretty silly to have to hold the chain up but I didn't have a much better answer, I used a zip tie on the plastic guide to hold it.





    Head is off:





    So it looks like the gasket has been replaced before! I can still see the words victor reinz on it, pretty surprised by this.

















    That's all I got accomplished tonight, off to the machine shop!

  19. #44
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    Ive not had good luck with Victor reinz head gaskets.

    Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by XnWarden View Post
    Ive not had good luck with Victor reinz head gaskets.

    Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk
    This one held my 10psi just fine.... looks very intact too, probably good for another go! lol I didn't install it, i expected to see a stock one there.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Havn't worked a ton on the car lately. But got a few things done.
    Block + head ready to go back together. Cylinder walls look great! only concerning thing I found was some light scoring on the cam's + caps, but we're gonna send it, she was pretty quiet up top before so I dont expect much different.





    So something I knew but decided to pretend didn't exist: My downpipe ran dangerously close to my strut tower. There was maybe 1/8-1/4 of an inch clearance there. As it turns out is not enough. Here's some proof:








    No harm done and all in good fun right!
    -So I invested in some condor motor mounts, hopefully that will help limit movement and keep the downpipe away from the strut tower.. I really dont want too much viberation though, after some research I landed on doing condor engine mounts and leaving the trans mounts stock. I've heard this is an acceptable mix. we'll find out. My old motor mount on the passenger side was getting kinda slouchy anyways.








    also! ran E-brake cables! I havn't had an e-brake in this car since I owned it and its been on my list for a long time!



  21. #46
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    The tolerances of these cut-rings was MUCH tighter than I expected... getting them all to squeeze together and stay in their spots when setting the head down turned out difficult.












  22. #47
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    Things are coming back together, cams + timing + vanos are back in. Hopefully gonna do a quick start up this weekend and let the car go through a heat cycle so I can re-torque the head again.

    Also got myself a new shift knob!

  23. #48
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    Slapped everything back together and did the first start up this weekend. Ran good! no problems! Ran it through a full heat cycle and burped all my coolant! All seems good No more timing cover leak which I'm very happy about!


    Then I took the valve cover back off and did the retorque on the head since its recommended to do so after first heat cycle.


    Since I had my leakdown tester home from work already I decided to do a quick leakdown just to see how healthy everything was still. I'd estimate this motor has well over 200k but honestly have no idea.


    And results were fantastic, less than 10% leakage from every cylinder!





    I know I'm gonna have to advance the ignition timing a little bit now with lower compression, the question is how much really? going to start by adding a few degrees and going from there, my old ignition map was a conservative guess really. But I think most of these things start out that way! lol

  24. #49
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    Okay... its now the end of January and its absolutely freezing here in MN. -30f before windchill the last few days. A few new things in the last couple weeks.


    1st: new condor motor mounts seem to give me slighly more space near the strut tower! all is good!





    I re-wrapped my exhaust manifold.... but I left a little less up top which I now realized how close my coil wires get to the exhaust!.. So I made a quick heat shield.














    Also! bought myself a new steering wheel! Renown 130R motorsport. Honestly I just disliked how large my old mtech1 felt... I really like how this one feels so far!





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