WWBFcD - E36 vs E30

[mindspin311]

So I'm sorta stuck about what to do for a track car moving forward.

Currently I race an E30 in Chumpcar, but my personal track car is an E36M3. I have always felt that the E30 is more 'fun' to drive on track, vs. the E36. Every time I get in an E30, I have a blast. I was able to drive a friend's M52 swapped E30 this weekend, and OMG it was a riot. Searching through Craigslist, I found a local seller with an unfinished M52 swap car. It runs, but needs "conversion" to track car status.

Over to the E36, its fast, faster than the Chumpcar, but it's not as fun to me. Its direct, more refined, and it you really have to drive it in an engaging manner. Part of what turns me off is the suspension setup that is on the car. I wont name anything, but it's mid-level, and it just doesnt work for the car. It really forces you to be mindful of all inputs to make sure you don't upset the car and face the consequences. I have an opportunity to fix that, a friend will have a set of Moton Motorsports 2way remotes up for sale soon.


So, it boils down to upgrade the suspension on the E36, or move on and pick up the local E30 swap car. I know the E30 will be a blast to drive on track and I would be 1000% happy if I went in that direction. I don't know just what the Motons will do to the E36. Of course it will handle better, but will it bring the FUN to the E36 that I get with the E30?

[matthugie]

My first question would be what are your goals for the car? If it's just for HPDE then it doesn't matter, if you are planning to compete with the car then it does.

I had an S52 E30 for several years and currently have an E36 M3 on pimpy shocks so I understand where you're coming from. It really comes down to personal preference and what you want. From a fun perspective, my S52 e30 was an absolute riot and surprised a ton of people at the track. The car was so easy to toss around, and having E46 M3 owners come up to you after a session asking "what the hell is in that thing?!" is a great feeling. On the other hand, the E36 is definitely faster overall, and when pimpy shocks are added it takes the car to another dimension. My E30 (for its final iteration) was on Turner J-stock suspension, and having shocks/struts custom valved to match the springs was eye opening for me. I had tried several other OTS setups and they were OK, but having shocks valved specifically for the springs was a night and day difference. The difference between those and the likes of MCS/Moton/JRZ is the exact same delta. I never knew how a suspension could absorb bumps before driving on MCS's.

My advice: buy the shocks for the E36. They will absolutely transform the car, and if you don't like them or they don't give you what you want you can take them off and not lose money. The project E30 on the other hand will, without a doubt, be more expensive than you think it is and take more work to get where you want it to be.

[RJHarker]

You're fighting a losing battle. To me they are the same, can't hold a candle to anything modern.

[mindspin311]

My first question would be what are your goals for the car? If it's just for HPDE then it doesn't matter, if you are planning to compete with the car then it does.

I had an S52 E30 for several years and currently have an E36 M3 on pimpy shocks so I understand where you're coming from. It really comes down to personal preference and what you want. From a fun perspective, my S52 e30 was an absolute riot and surprised a ton of people at the track. The car was so easy to toss around, and having E46 M3 owners come up to you after a session asking "what the hell is in that thing?!" is a great feeling. On the other hand, the E36 is definitely faster overall, and when pimpy shocks are added it takes the car to another dimension. My E30 (for its final iteration) was on Turner J-stock suspension, and having shocks/struts custom valved to match the springs was eye opening for me. I had tried several other OTS setups and they were OK, but having shocks valved specifically for the springs was a night and day difference. The difference between those and the likes of MCS/Moton/JRZ is the exact same delta. I never knew how a suspension could absorb bumps before driving on MCS's.

My advice: buy the shocks for the E36. They will absolutely transform the car, and if you don't like them or they don't give you what you want you can take them off and not lose money. The project E30 on the other hand will, without a doubt, be more expensive than you think it is and take more work to get where you want it to be.

Yea, I can stop thinking about how much fun I had driving the swapped E30. I would sell my E36 and use that money towards buying this local E30 swap car and to finish it up. So I wont be "losing" money per se. It would be generally cheaper to get the Moton's for the E36. And they would probably be like heaven. Ugh the choices.

[AirDoc]

Just make your Street Car more "TRACK".....i'm quite positive you will have more fun in that car....quite positive....

[revzillia]

E30. Lighter / smaller / easy Set it up with bushings and shocks Have fun

[jrkoupe]

this is a really old comparo..but always a bit fun to revisit

I ran a track day e30/s50 for years......and like stated , it was a blast and having bigger dollar cars come up to me after sessions saying "whats in that thing..." was big grin time

pick what you like.......BUUUUUT a well set up e36 will be faster.

[jimmypet]

If you drive with your head,,, and eventually may want to race, E36 is the easy button for the track day car.

If you drive with your heart,,, and enjoy driving E30s,,,, do the E30.
Look, nobody is paying us to do this hobby, its supposed to be FUN,,, if you have more FUN driving the E30, do it. Life is too short.

Me, I race a 30 year old E30, in a Run What Ya Brung class, built how I want it to be and the cards fall where they do each race weekend,,, why,,, because I love driving E30s and I do this hobby for fun. I've been driving this old E30 since 1998 when it wasn't such an old car.

I cannot bother to analyze what car will be the car to have in which class. To me cars are not appliances. Driving is a passion.
The whole track hobby to me is about fun, I dont even go to the track anymore if the weather is going to be shit because to me,,, thats not fun.
Too cold,,, Im not goin', too hot,,, same, over 50% chance of rain,,, Im out, because standing around freezing or wet at the track isnt FUN for me.

I see the older guys (yeah older than me) who are still racing MGs and Spridgets and I used to not get it at all,,, now I do "get it",,, they still love driving MGs and Spridgets even though they are ancient and they have to make 80% of their parts,,, thats what they like to drive.

[jrkoupe]

jp....

I could not have said it better.

I sold the e30 a few yrs ago...siiiiiih, but my buddies never really got that I just loved the car , even tho newer cars w/ lesser drivers were faster........

.......to me, its about connecting w/ the car emotionally......


life got in the way........but I miss her a lot.

looking for e36 now, e30 costs/askings just dont make sense right now

[ddavidv]

I used to race a E30, have ridden in a couple of swapped ones and love the car. But I now own a E36 M3.

There probably is no 'wrong' answer here. Given the choices and the probable headaches of finishing someone else's aborted project I'd put suspension on the E36 and see how you like it. If it still doesn't float your boat then look for another swapped E30.

Don't develop 'oneitis' and think that available E30 is the only one there will ever be.

[jrkoupe]

some well versed e30 guys here......

some OG's.....lol


btw, I thought my swapped e30 was the only car that could float my boat..............but it aint true

[TXBDan]

These cars are getting old. Even E36 parts are turning up NLA. I think E30s are too old to invest in now. If i were buying a new track car i'd probably do an E46 330i.

[jrkoupe]

invest?..........I would not use that word...lol...but I hear ya

hard to think some e36 parts are NLA......like what?


btw, e46 3.0 will be the next track rat car we all will be seeing on track, good call.....


many e46 3.0 spec cars are faster than s52/50 e36 m3 on a track day
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rd8IWv7eiro

[TXBDan]

Ha, i mean like invest blood/sweat/tears into. Financially its more of a donation...

[ddavidv]

E30's are becoming 'collectible' now too which is driving up the price of donors. E36 non-M cars are super-cheap, like E30s used to be! When you can buy a M car for the price of a 325i E30 with instantly better performance it seems like a no-brainer.

That said, I get what the OP talked about with regard to the visceral feedback you get from the simpler, raw-er E30. I really, really liked mine. It just didn't go fast enough to entertain me anymore and I'm too old and grumpy to build a swapped one. I stroked a check for someone else's E36 M3 track toy and away we go.

[jrkoupe]

ddv


spot on.....


e36M is like a bargain now compared to a $9k e30

buuuuut e36m prices are rising too, n longer can u get a really solid car for 6-8k.......

one may pop up if u look long enough but not like 3 or 4 yrs ago


finding a well built track day e36 really is heaven

[ddavidv]

buuuuut e36m prices are rising too, n longer can u get a really solid car for 6-8k.......

one may pop up if u look long enough but not like 3 or 4 yrs ago


finding a well built track day e36 really is heaven

It can be done. Just snagged my built M3 for under $8k. Unadvertised special through networking. But yes, it was not easy. Can still find decent street driven examples but then you have to spend almost as much again turning it into a track toy.

You want to go fast? How much do you have to spend? Not a cheap hobby.

[NeilM]

invest?..........I would not use that word...lol...but I hear ya

Ha, i mean like invest blood/sweat/tears into. Financially its more of a donation...

Costs like an investment, pays back like a donation. ;–)

Neil

[1990m3]

If you drive with your head,,, and eventually may want to race, E36 is the easy button for the track day car.

If you drive with your heart,,, and enjoy driving E30s,,,, do the E30.
Look, nobody is paying us to do this hobby, its supposed to be FUN,,, if you have more FUN driving the E30, do it. Life is too short.

Me, I race a 30 year old E30, in a Run What Ya Brung class, built how I want it to be and the cards fall where they do each race weekend,,, why,,, because I love driving E30s and I do this hobby for fun. I've been driving this old E30 since 1998 when it wasn't such an old car.

I'm doing the exact same thing with the same car. My local racing series is a little boring since my car is classed in a group where the competition is sparse, but when i start racing it in vintage next month that should all change I love driving the e30s and some of the challenges they provide in contrast to newer e36s and e46s that have more parts available with a wider variety of options. I won't lie, when and if i get fed up, I'd gladly romp around in a well setup e46 m3 -- I have a bit of envy when I see really nicely prepped cars at track days, they are very quick too!

I used to HPDE a e30/s50 swapped car and it was great. I had it setup nicely and it was literally the most reliable track car I've had, nothing ever went wrong and all it needed were brakes, tires, and fluids and it kept coming back for more. It took a while to develop it as a daily driver before it became a track whore, but it's now been a track car for 10 years in our region, on its 4th owner, after I sold it it's been wrecked twice, but it keeps killing it on track days. If you get the setup right it can be a wonderful car and can perform very well. I take a lot of pride in having been the builder of a car that literally a dozen+ people in our region have successfully enjoyed.

The problem is that if you're not doing discount endurance racing series it seems e30s are pretty much gone from HPDE environments. They are just not that fast anymore, like it or not. When i started doing track days with e30 m3s about 12 years ago, e46 m3s were super quick, now they are just medium speed cars out there. It's kind of nuts. I drive in the advanced groups and get blown away by parades of porsche's and it's kind of annoying. The bumper to bumper HPDE fun I used to have is gone because I'm too stubborn to change to something more modern and faster.

If I were you, I'd buy a pre-swapped and well executed e30, in the end it's usually easier to tweak a setup to work well then start from scratch. There is a nice looking e30/s54 on Bring a Trailer right now I would love to take home...for me, however, I just bought an e46 m3 last week
Timing is a bitch!!

[mindspin311]

So I ended up selling the E36 and buying the E30. I gave myself a short window to sell the E36, and amazingly it sold within a week. So I grabbed the E30 and it's now awaiting final track prep. Unfortunately, I can currently living in China as part of my job, so I won't be able to really work on it until October.

[Jcbe34]

I have a pretty well set up e30 track car that a friend and I built and are developing for AER/WRL type stuff. It has MCS remote 2-ways (true coilover rear), 17x9's, e46 m3 brakes, and an M54 currently. In it's current form, it will run lap times similar to a Continental Tire ST car or well-driven Spec E46 but it takes some pretty big risks to get there. My friend that I share the car with is young, dumb, and stupid fast while I have a better feel for setup and tuning on feedback. The idea for the car was a tool for me to progress and get quicker as a driver and for him to develop on the engineering side a bit and deliver more accurate setup feedback. The car is really cool and super fun, but it's such a struggle to fit anything more than a 235/40/17 on the car and to go much faster we really need more tire (I'm talking 200TW). We've been talking recently about parting with the e30 and I think you could get an e46 m3, throw a cage in it, buy some wheels/tires and MCS's and go a lot faster for not a ton more $$$$. I don't see enough of a jump in the e36 IMO, especially considering the current market for e36 m3's

[mindspin311]

I have a pretty well set up e30 track car that a friend and I built and are developing for AER/WRL type stuff. It has MCS remote 2-ways (true coilover rear), 17x9's, e46 m3 brakes, and an M54 currently. In it's current form, it will run lap times similar to a Continental Tire ST car or well-driven Spec E46 but it takes some pretty big risks to get there. My friend that I share the car with is young, dumb, and stupid fast while I have a better feel for setup and tuning on feedback. The idea for the car was a tool for me to progress and get quicker as a driver and for him to develop on the engineering side a bit and deliver more accurate setup feedback. The car is really cool and super fun, but it's such a struggle to fit anything more than a 235/40/17 on the car and to go much faster we really need more tire (I'm talking 200TW). We've been talking recently about parting with the e30 and I think you could get an e46 m3, throw a cage in it, buy some wheels/tires and MCS's and go a lot faster for not a ton more $$$$. I don't see enough of a jump in the e36 IMO, especially considering the current market for e36 m3's

Was the car at Roebling with the Just Track It group a few weekends ago? I've seen it, it is stupid fast.

[Jcbe34]

Was the car at Roebling with the Just Track It group a few weekends ago? I've seen it, it is stupid fast.

It was there, but we had just installed an AIM dash and the ECU was pissed off so the car wouldn't rev over 5k. What car were you in?

[mindspin311]

It was there, but we had just installed an AIM dash and the ECU was pissed off so the car wouldn't rev over 5k. What car were you in?

Blue/grey E30 Chumpcar, big Harrison Motorsports logo on the hood. Kind of a big deal