My '33 Hotrod is DONE....1/31/2023 update pics at post 515

[JimLev]

Mine isn’t an e-rod, they have Cat’s, I don’t need them in this county.
The LS3 engine came with a purge valve however there are no wires from the ECU harness for it.
They removed a lot of things from the ECU, the key and VIN aren’t verified, only one set of O2 sensors, no ABS, no airbag, etc.

I just bought this sniffer.
https://www.amazon.com/Detector-Port...gion_id=972485

One of the guys on the FFR forum said some of the fuel specified lines that were used still could weep fuel thru them. Here is what he had to say.

“Question what did you use for fuel line? I had to replace mine because it was sweating fuel ever so slightly. You won't see a leak but you will smell the vapor for sure. The issue is some of the lines you get are not rated for ethanol and after this last year they upped the amount that is in fuel now.”

[Laminar]

E10 is 10%, E15 is 15%, and E85 is "up to" 85%. Even if the E10 blend used to be only 8% and they upped it to a full 10%, that 2% change isn't going to magically make a hose start weeping. Any car made since 2001 can safely run E15, so I'd expect any quality fuel injection grade fuel line made since then would be able to handle E15 without breaking down. If a fuel hose is permeable enough to let fuel vapor through, it's not because of some nebulous change "they" made to fuel last year, it probably wasn't a super high quality line to begin with.

Can you see any branding, part numbers, or markings on the hose the FFR provided?

[JimLev]

Laminar, the left over part of the hoses to the charcoal canister I have are from Gates and NAPA. The AN6 hoses from FFR are covered but I think I can get to part of it to see who made them.
One thing that I just thought of is the fuel I had been using has all been ethanol free up until a few weeks ago after I registered it. That’s when I started using 10% ethanol fuel and could smell fumes. It may be just be a red herring, don’t know. I’ll see when the sniffer arrives this Sunday.

[SW530]

Laminar, the left over part of the hoses to the charcoal canister I have are from Gates and NAPA. The AN6 hoses from FFR are covered but I think I can get to part of it to see who made them.
One thing that I just thought of is the fuel I had been using has all been ethanol free up until a few weeks ago after I registered it. That’s when I started using 10% ethanol fuel and could smell fumes. It may be just be a red herring, don’t know. I’ll see when the sniffer arrives this Sunday.

Fumes can often be noticed if a person fills their tank past the first click off.. like when trying to really top off a tank of gas. Gas can leak back into the charcoal canister and then you can really smell it. Or if the tank or canister is installed in such a way that it allows backflow into a canister. I've seen that on cars people built for track use by using a non-standard location tank and the fill hose is too short to the fill neck allowing splash while driving to get through the vent tube into the canister. Or if filling via the fuel cell cap, and it's vented to a canister and it's filled too high.

[JimLev]

The thing is I’ve never filled the tank to more than 3/4.
Today I pulled the canister that is mounted just below the tank. The two ports are open to provide air to purge the canister.
The two top open ports smell like gas, I’m guessing this is the source that is getting into the cabin. There isn’t much isolation fron the outside to the cabin.
04B710B0-2CC7-4560-9799-22F676A2BDCF.jpeg

Looking on-line I see a similar canister but it has the 2 top ports tee’d together with a hose that goes somewhere for a fresh air supply. I’ll try that and hope it works.

8FE9195B-3D88-4B63-8023-6ACA4D61151D.jpeg

[computiNATEor]

Is it a fresh air supply, or the vent line to the intake stream?

[JimLev]

See above, I updated the pic. The vent line goes to the tank, the intake line goes to the purge valve that is connected to the intake manifold.

I connected my vac pump to the line that goes to the intake, as soon as I turned it on the back yard reeks of gas so I need to run the purge valve a lot more, tee the fresh air ports together like in the Mustang pic.

[philly98540]

Charcoal got over saturated with gas fumes from the sounds of it. Yeah, use the purge valve more while driving and see if that helps recover the fumes from the charcoal. Is it possible some liquid gas got sloshed while driving and got down to the canister? I believe most cars have a small container to separate the liquid from the fumes and allows the liquid to drain back to the tank and fumes to be sent to the canister. I need to study up some more as I’m forgetting some details.

[JimLev]

After running the vac pump for an hour the gas fumes are completely gone.
One of the GM Techs on the FFR forum said the purge valve should be open when the engine is running.
I’m going to bridge the 2 fresh air ports together like shown in the Mustang canister pic above and remote the air pickup line to the back of the car.

Thad, did you get my PM?

[SW530]

If there is a way to open the canister and then reseal it, you can reactivate or even replace charcoal.. that's the easy part. The hard part is making sure it doesn't happen again. This might sound silly but if you have the room when you reorganize it, put a drop loop in the hoses so solids get trapped and fumes can still get through.

I'm a ham operator.. I can't count the number of new guys who ran a coax and/or ground wire through their window without a drop loop and the first time it rained it filled their room up with water.. Its not the same thing, but kinda the same principal.

[ross1]

If there is a way to open the canister and then reseal it, you can reactivate or even replace charcoal.. that's the easy part. The hard part is making sure it doesn't happen again. This might sound silly but if you have the room when you reorganize it, put a drop loop in the hoses so solids get trapped and fumes can still get through.

I'm a ham operator.. I can't count the number of new guys who ran a coax and/or ground wire through their window without a drop loop and the first time it rained it filled their room up with water.. Its not the same thing, but kinda the same principal.

This would effectively create a trap. The vapors need unimpeded flow.

[JimLev]

No need to cut the canister open, I think the problem was caused by me not running the purge valve enough.

[SW530]

This would effectively create a trap. The vapors need unimpeded flow.

Do you think it would trap the vapors or the solids? I think it would trap a portion of the vapors as well as a certain amount of the solids. How much vapor being produced is key, for the sake of argument lets say each time you drive the car, slosh the fuel around, fill the tank, etc, it produces 10cuft of vapor. Would a drop block all vapor, or would it let vapor flow over a certain pressure (so drop depth would be vital), and retain the vapor below a certain pressure.. and if it did, would that pressure cause issues or be objectionable in any way? I really don't know, but would find it interesting to try if I was having an issue. I know from experience it stops slosh created solids which has been a decent fix when relocation wasn't possible. Its kinda like the coax drops I mentioned. They easily stop the flow created from water building on the surface area of the coax that ends up running down the coax.. but would never stop a hose with even 5psi of pressure. You could probably increase the depth of the drop to account for a certain amount of pressure. Would be a fun experiment..

[ross1]

Do you think it would trap the vapors or the solids? I think it would trap a portion of the vapors as well as a certain amount of the solids. How much vapor being produced is key, for the sake of argument lets say each time you drive the car, slosh the fuel around, fill the tank, etc, it produces 10cuft of vapor. Would a drop block all vapor, or would it let vapor flow over a certain pressure (so drop depth would be vital), and retain the vapor below a certain pressure.. and if it did, would that pressure cause issues or be objectionable in any way? I really don't know, but would find it interesting to try if I was having an issue. I know from experience it stops slosh created solids which has been a decent fix when relocation wasn't possible. Its kinda like the coax drops I mentioned. They easily stop the flow created from water building on the surface area of the coax that ends up running down the coax.. but would never stop a hose with even 5psi of pressure. You could probably increase the depth of the drop to account for a certain amount of pressure. Would be a fun experiment..

you mean liquids, right?
see post 548

[JimLev]

Got the gas sniffer (link in post 551) yesterday, it’s very sensitive, no vapors leaking thru the fuel lines. It was all from the charcoal canister fresh air vents.
Yesterday I bought 2 of these PCV elbows and machined off the barb on one end so it would fit into the canister. I’m adding 2 long hoses so fresh air can be pulled in from the rear of the car.
https://www.autozone.com/emission-co...032/721423_0_0

If I ran the purge valve more I wouldn’t have had this problem.

AA089735-BB7D-4C6B-9404-87476F4514D5.jpeg

Found this info in the internet so it must be true……
The PCM energizes the canister purge solenoid and allows vacuum to purge vapors from the canister under these conditions:

1. 150 seconds have elapsed since the PCM entered closed loop.
2. Coolant temperature is above 176 degrees F. (80 degrees C.).
3. When the PCM is not enabling injector shut-off, such as on vehicles with traction control while one drive wheel is spinning.
4. The idle contact switch in the IAC motor is open.
5. Vehicle speed is above 20 mph.
6. Engine speed is above 1,100 rpm.
7. The engine metal temperature sensor is not indicating excessive temperature.
8. Low coolant level is not indicated.

If any of these conditions are not present, the PCM does not energize the canister purge solenoid, and the gasoline vapors from the fuel tank are stored in the canister.
When the engine is running, intake manifold vacuum is supplied to the TPCV valve. This vacuum opens the valve and allows vapors to flow through the valve into the canister. When the engine is not running, the TPCV valve closes, and fuel vapors are contained in the fuel tank. If the tank pressure exceeds 15 inches of water with the engine not running, this pressure forces the TPCV valve open and allows vapor flow to the canister. The canister contains a liquid fuel trap that collects any liquid fuel entering the canister. Condensed fuel vapor forms liquid fuel. This liquid is returned from the canister to the tank when a vacuum is present in the tank. This liquid fuel trap prevents liquid fuel from contaminating the charcoal in the canister. The EVAP system reduces the escape of HC evaporative emissions from the gasoline tank to the atmosphere.

[SW530]

you mean liquids, right?
see post 548

Yes.

[tptrsn]

Dang Jim, check out this guy's FF33! (I linked directly to the point in the video where it's featured at 26:57):

[JimLev]

Thanks Thad, I’m gonna find out if that guy is on the FF33 forum, there are a number of Canadians on it.
His trailer is magnificent too.

[ross1]

Thanks Thad, I’m gonna find out if that guy is on the FF33 forum, there are a number of Canadians on it.
He trailer is magnificent too.

You betcha!

[tptrsn]

Agreed!

[JimLev]

Got some info from the guys on the Factory Five forum.
https://www.facebook.com/chris.hein.7370

also @chrishein33 on Instagram

some video of the car on the street - skip to 19.33
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWfL...ature=youtu.be

[tptrsn]

That's one nasty unit Jim!!

[computiNATEor]

Awesome build. Would be interested to compare the chassis to the Factory Five one, since they said they basically started over aft of the firewall.

The Toyota Cresta at 19:52 in that video is the same one built on Mighty Car Mods way back in the day. No slouch in and of itself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUpfSUKVjYc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQLu...x2_YMRtOHh8S9o