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Thread: Overheated :(

  1. #1
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    Overheated :(

    Overheated on the George Washington bridge in bumper to bumper. I should have just turned the car off in the middle of the bridge and got it towed but I felt bad blocking hundreds of thousands of commuters to NYC and felt pressure to keep moving so I drove until I could get off the GW and off the highway. Just towed/dropped it off at the mechanic, I'm guessing I have the dreaded warped head.

    I'm getting ahead of myself because I don't have compression tests results back yet but: Do you guys think it's ever worth it to machine the head, or is it always better to just buy an engine and swap it? And what am I looking at for an S52 swap all in. $4k?

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    It just overheated out of the blue, in winter no less? You weren't leaking coolant for a while before, either externally or via the head gasket? If not, sounds like it must've been some sort of catastrophic failure either of the water pump or major fluid loss or blockage somewhere in the circuit. Was there a bunch of smoke/steam from anyplace in particular?

    Anyways, that's all about the cause. Now that the engine's been cooked there's really no telling how bad it might be until you hear from the mechanic. At a minimum the head will probably need to be pulled, and that's probably a multi-thousand $ repair (if paying for labor) right there to start. As far as an engine swap goes, as long as it's another replacement S52 and not an S54 or something it probably wouldn't be too bad. $4K probably isn't far off (including a donor S52). It's actually not that complicated to do if you have an engine hoist and some help. Just a lot of mass and a lot of disassembly and reassembly. Once you get the front end off it's more or less just a matter of disconnecting the harness and fuel lines, unbolting the engine mounts, and finally unbolting the back end at either the drive shaft (if removing the transmission too) or the bell housing (I think it's probably easiest to take the engine+trans out as one unit and then take the trans off to be mated to the new engine). Then it just comes right out the front.
    Last edited by TostitoBandito; 02-27-2018 at 01:22 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TostitoBandito View Post
    It just overheated out of the blue, in winter no less? You weren't leaking coolant for a while before, either externally or via the head gasket? If not, sounds like it must've been some sort of catastrophic failure either of the water pump or major fluid loss or blockage somewhere in the circuit. Was there a bunch of smoke/steam from anyplace in particular?

    Anyways, that's all about the cause. Now that the engine's been cooked there's really no telling how bad it might be until you hear from the mechanic. At a minimum the head will probably need to be pulled, and that's probably a multi-thousand $ repair (if paying for labor) right there to start. As far as an engine swap goes, as long as it's another replacement S52 and not an S54 or something it probably wouldn't be too bad. $4K probably isn't far off (including a donor S52). It's actually not that complicated to do if you have an engine hoist and some help. Just a lot of mass and a lot of disassembly and reassembly. Once you get the front end off it's more or less just a matter of disconnecting the harness and fuel lines, unbolting the engine mounts, and finally unbolting the back end at either the drive shaft (if removing the transmission too) or the bell housing (I think it's probably easiest to take the engine+trans out as one unit and then take the trans off to be mated to the new engine). Then it just comes right out the front.
    No coolant leaks. It looked like a lot of steam coming from under the hood but I didn't pin-point.

    I don't think I'm handy enough to replace the head myself. I'm not finding any guides on google though. I searched for cylinder head replacement but the only results I'm seeing are head gasket replacements.

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    Let the pros tell you what the damage is first. It may be cheaper overall to buy a working S52 and swap it in than to do a partial/full rebuild on yours to repair it (if that's what's needed).
    Last edited by TostitoBandito; 02-27-2018 at 02:08 PM.
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    Leakdown and compression test completed by the mechanic, he says the engine is done.

    Where other than eBay can I look for S52's? For sale forums here doesn't seem to have much.

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    Did he share the results of the compression and leak down tests? The entire reason for them is to find out which cylinders are holding compression and how much percent off they are, then leak down will confirm if and where air is leaking out. Was it cylinder to cylinder, Intake or exhaust valve, oil cap?

    Without that it's hard to say what exactly "done" means.

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    Sorry. He said one cylinder had 90% compression loss and all the others also had some loss.

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    Quote Originally Posted by knickfan5745 View Post
    Sorry. He said one cylinder had 90% compression loss and all the others also had some loss.
    Were you charged for that lack of specifics? It would be nice to actually get results so you would be better prepared to make decisions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by knickfan5745 View Post
    Sorry. He said one cylinder had 90% compression loss and all the others also had some loss.
    I don't see why your bottom end should be ruined. A new head will be faster to install, cheaper to buy, and cheaper to install (assuming you're not doing it yourself - in which case it's just the parts cost).

    Depending on what happened, you may not even need a new head (depending on whether the old one can be planed). Some machine shop time is even cheaper than a new head.

    And honestly, if you have $4k to drop on an engine, wouldn't you rather spend $2k on a head, and $2k adding cams, 3.5" intake, etc to your engine?

    -Josh: 1998 S54 E36 M3/4/6 with most of the easy stuff and most of the hard stuff. At least twice. 271k miles. 1994 E32 740il with nothing but some MPars. 93k miles.

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    I just had a new head put on mine, so I'll give you an idea of cost. A new BMW head is $3500. If you need any valves or springs, add that in. I needed 10 new exhaust valves, $360. New retainers and keepers, $400. New lifters, $600, but not mandatory. Machine shop labor to rebuild the head with unshrouding and multi-angle valve job, $1800. Parts and fluids for the head R&R, $500. Labor for the head R&R, $1400. May as well rebuild the VANOS, $230. This is all on the higher end, but BMW parts and labor aren't cheap anyway. So don't expect to shave a ton off of these numbers unless you are going to DIY most of the job.

    Another option for the head is Autohead Performance. They sell fully assembled aftermarket heads for $1000. I don't know anything about their quality, though. I emailed them last year and they said the castings are out of China, but assured me they are stronger than OEM. I wasn't feeling like taking the risk, since I track this car and intend to race with it.
    Last edited by Solaris99; 03-03-2018 at 07:49 AM. Reason: Updated cost details

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    I would have sourced a good used head for maybe $400 and rebuilt it. And $3000 is a lot for labor unless you live in some place where mechanics get $250 an hour. I can’t afford labor so I have to do the work. It’s not a bad idea to refresh a 20 year old valve train, though.

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    I misread the invoice. It was $1400 for the head R&R. I lumped the labor in for rebuilding the head, originally. Expensive, I know. I went with a BMW engine builder for this.
    Last edited by Solaris99; 03-03-2018 at 07:45 AM.

  14. #14
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    Specific leak down ratios:


    1. 65%
    2. 8%
    3. 70%
    4. 89%
    5. 89%
    6. 88%





    Is there any other specific information I should ask for?

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    I think I would pull the head and see what happened.

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    So it seems if I end up doing this myself, an engine swap is easier than trying to do a head read replacement.

    1. Is Ebay/Forums the best source for an S52?
    2. What else should I do as long as I'm taking the engine/trans out?

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    Quote Originally Posted by knickfan5745 View Post
    So it seems if I end up doing this myself, an engine swap is easier than trying to do a head read replacement.

    1. Is Ebay/Forums the best source for an S52?
    2. What else should I do as long as I'm taking the engine/trans out?
    I prefer finding used motors on the forum, there always seems to be someone nearby with the motor you want. Definitely do the rear main seal as one of those "while I'm in there jobs" during the swap.

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    Head replacement is not that difficult if you have any mechanical experience - though it's time consuming the first time you do it. You really should pull the head and see what you're dealing with before blowing $$ on a used engine that may itself have been overheated in the past. I swear every time I see an E36 with the hood up I find evidence of coolant spewing out the expansion tank cap. By now most of these engines need some amount of work. Refurbishing the head on your own engine may be the best option.

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    This.

    You are far better off fixing the actual problem you have than buying a new (unknown) problem.

    Honestly, let's think about this: a HG job is significantly easier than replacing the whole engine.

    You'd have to remove the intake and exhaust in either case. You'd have to drain and remove the radiator in either case.

    At that point, you either buy a HG kit, pull the valve cover, use the timing blocks, remove the VANOS and timing gear, and remove the head. Take the head to a nice machine shop and have it checked for cracks and planed (or at least surfaced). You get new valve guides out of the deal, too, could do the Beisan or DR VANOS kit, and this would be an easy time to swap in some cams. And on top of that, even if your head was ruined and you had to buy a whole new head you'd still be thousands less than buying a new engine.

    OR, you drop the tranny, then remove whatever else is in the way (the whole front support) and remove the engine. Then reverse, swapping in the new engine.

    ...

    I know which option sounds easier, faster, cheaper, and would be more robust (not to mention which would make more power).

    -Josh: 1998 S54 E36 M3/4/6 with most of the easy stuff and most of the hard stuff. At least twice. 271k miles. 1994 E32 740il with nothing but some MPars. 93k miles.

  20. #20
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    What are people's thoughts on the AutoHead heads that Solaris99 mentioned?

    http://www.autoheadperformance.com/m...bmw_heads.html

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    OP, did your mechanical fan or aux kick in at all? Or you overheated despite that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mileage View Post
    OP, did your mechanical fan or aux kick in at all? Or you overheated despite that?
    Hose popped off so I'm not sure it would have mattered.


    This.

    You are far better off fixing the actual problem you have than buying a new (unknown) problem.

    Honestly, let's think about this: a HG job is significantly easier than replacing the whole engine.

    You'd have to remove the intake and exhaust in either case. You'd have to drain and remove the radiator in either case.

    At that point, you either buy a HG kit, pull the valve cover, use the timing blocks, remove the VANOS and timing gear, and remove the head. Take the head to a nice machine shop and have it checked for cracks and planed (or at least surfaced). You get new valve guides out of the deal, too, could do the Beisan or DR VANOS kit, and this would be an easy time to swap in some cams. And on top of that, even if your head was ruined and you had to buy a whole new head you'd still be thousands less than buying a new engine.

    OR, you drop the tranny, then remove whatever else is in the way (the whole front support) and remove the engine. Then reverse, swapping in the new engine.

    ...

    I know which option sounds easier, faster, cheaper, and would be more robust (not to mention which would make more power).
    My concern is what if damage was done to the block/rods/pistons when this all happened? Is the damage of an overheat limited to the head? This engine also had 200k miles on it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by knickfan5745 View Post
    Hose popped off so I'm not sure it would have mattered.




    My concern is what if damage was done to the block/rods/pistons when this all happened? Is the damage of an overheat limited to the head? This engine also had 200k miles on it.
    Yes. Which isn't to say you didn't already have worn rod bearings. But that's a much different thing than "damage."

    Overheating / blown head gasket causes bottom end damage if you keep driving it when your oil and coolant mix and you ruin your bearings. But you didn't keep driving yours. I'd be very surprised if the bottom end had any kind of damage from the overheating.
    Last edited by blckstrm; 04-10-2018 at 02:01 PM.

    -Josh: 1998 S54 E36 M3/4/6 with most of the easy stuff and most of the hard stuff. At least twice. 271k miles. 1994 E32 740il with nothing but some MPars. 93k miles.

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    Sorry to hear, are those hundreds/thousands commuters going to pay for the damages? Similar things happened yrs back in a Corrado, I don't mean to sound like a jerk but next time; f everyone else.

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    Looks like I'm going to go with replacing the head.

    The shop I had it at who is considered a top BMW shop in Bergen County NJ has no interest in doing the job so I'm taking the car elsewhere. But they are charging me $350 for the leak down test they did. $350 seems high to me.
    Last edited by knickfan5745; 04-25-2018 at 04:43 PM.

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