5.0L Coyote Z3 Swap?

[modifiede30]

Interested in beginning the collection of parts for a future swap and curious how this engine might fit into a Z3 chassis. Below are recent comparison specs for the LS3 and 5.0 Coyote. The write up on this suggested that the coyote was a lot easier to tune and modify compared to the LS3, and had the 5.0 been bored out to an equivalent spec as the LS, it would have far more HP than the LS3 in the comparison. In a stock comparison, the Coyote was a more efficient engine hp/ltr. The torque curve was a lot smoother and HP curve more aggressive for track purposes - and could be tuned up to an 8000 redline - a screaming v8! I've only seen one ford 5.0 swap, but they used an older version of the engine, long before the overhead cam designs that have widened them. I like the shorter engine length but worry about the width compared to our inline 6's. I can't get to my car to measure it and finding an actual width online has been surprisingly hard. Anyone know this measurement - assume any of the M/S5x's are pretty much the same. This would be a track car so certain accessories could be moved around. Anyone attempted one of these using the newer Coyote engines? The earliest of the newer OHV designs appear to have started in 2011. Costs appear to be as low as $3500 for a decent engine.

Pound For Pound: Coyote Versus LS3

Ford 5.0-liter DOHC V8:
Length: 26.08 inches
Height: 28.89 inches
Width: 29.05 inches
Weight: 430 pounds (with accessories)

GM 6.2-liter LS3 V8:
Length: 28.75 inches
Height: 28.25 inches
Width: 24.75 inches
Weight: 418 pounds (with accessories)

[kc jr 54]

A 5.0L e36 has been swapped into a e36. The valve covers were like .5" away from the strut towers and the builder had to go with a tri-y header design due to steering shaft clearance issues being even more problematic due to the wider engine.

I dont know what article is making you believe there are challenges in tuning an LS3. That as figured out as can be...

You can find LS2s for the same $3500 and you dont HAVE to fab a thing to get it into place.

[e30polak]

The motor width is the big issue. the Z3's engine bay has less clearance width wise than an e36 due to the shock tower design. This is the reason why you can run an e46 m3 CSL intake plenum in an s54 e36 without issue, but the s54 in a z3 can't fit the wider airbox.

[modifiede30]

The motor width is the big issue. the Z3's engine bay has less clearance width wise than an e36 due to the shock tower design. This is the reason why you can run an e46 m3 CSL intake plenum in an s54 e36 without issue, but the s54 in a z3 can't fit the wider airbox.

This is largely what I was worried about. I had seen info on the Coyote swap into a e36 M3 chassis but not a z3, which I was thinking is likely tighter. Maybe I could do a mid-engine chassis.

[Laminar]

The Coyote makes its power through high revs and high flowing heads, the LS makes its power through displacement.

When it comes down to it, horsepower/liter doesn't mean shit to an engine swapper, that's just something that dumb people use for bragging rights on the internet. The S2000's engine makes even more hp/liter than the Coyote. And a 1000cc sportbike engine makes even MORE hp/liter! Why not swap in an S1000RR engine??

What matters for an engine swap is horsepower per exterior engine volume and horsepower per engine weight. LS wins that hands down.

External dimensions aside, any LS vs. Coyote argument typically comes down to brand loyalty and if someone says that the LS can't be modified or tuned well, they're kidding themselves.

[JBasham]

I love the Z3 chassis look and if I ever motor-swap a convertible, I'm 99% sure that's the chassis I would use. I also love the track, and if I did make said car, I would make sure I got an LSD hung on it and take it to the track. But I would fully expect to break differential covers. I have already broken one differential cover on a different motor-swapped BMW chassis with a 1-ear differential, at much lower horsepowers. Not cracked; sheared. The chassis mounting is no big deal; just weld in generous reinforcements. I like the semi-trailing arm suspension and it is a blast to drive, once I got used to managing the oversteer. I would also expect to have a fair amount of trial and error time getting the springs, dampers, and sways stiff enough, and balanced to my liking. Even if you dialed this project back to a V8 pushrod motor in the mid-200 HP range, I think it would be a great project that drives very differently than any of the BMW I-4 or I-6 cars. Plus I could come along after you and leach off your trial and error so my swap goes easier.

[SHARKBITEATTACK]

Here is an e36 with a 5.0 coyote for reference. I still think the LS would be more cost effective though. Now a flat plane crank voodoo, that would be cool!

https://youtu.be/KWHXn-2Q73A

[C10 LS1 1968]

I have a 2014 Mustang GT vert with the 5.0. I'm not a big Ford guy but I do like the car. I was looking for what I would call a 'long distance hot rod' and drove both the Mustang and Camaro. The Camaro with the 6.2 is not slow but it's so hard to see out of it with the top up. Both are rated at 420 hp and weigh about the same. I can say for sure the 5.0 is much wider measuring from the top of the cylinder heads. My 68 C10 with the LS measures just a touch less than 22 inches from outside of valve cover to out side of valve cover. I measured the 5.0 and from coil cover to coil cover it is 28". Keep in mind the it a bit hard to be exact with the engine in the car or truck. They drive a bit different, the Mustang does like to rev. But having said that the LS in my truck has AFR heads, forged pistons, forged rods and a mid sized cam will rev to 6700 rpm with no issues. Can't really say which has the best torque.
I did LS2 sleeved and stroked to 427 cubes/4L60E and had it in a 67 Nova. Mid size cam 230I/235E with the GM ported L92 heads. Did 480 rwhp with a mild 91 octane tune. The low to mid range torque was so much fun. Light the tires up at 50 mph when the trans shifted from 4th to 2nd.
The E36 in the link looks like it's very tight. No heater hoses? No cutting of the shock towers or front frame tubes? What about the oil pan?
At the end of the day everyone should build what they like or want.

[XCRN]

Here is an e36 with a 5.0 coyote for reference. I still think the LS would be more cost effective though. Now a flat plane crank voodoo, that would be cool!

https://youtu.be/KWHXn-2Q73A

This I think can be debateable under CERTAIN circumstances. If the goal is 400ish horsepower and a 6 speed manual I think it could be cheaper with Ford.

I see a few truck Coyotes for $2500 under 100k miles and you can pickup MT82s all day for under $1000 add another $1000 and you can buy a brand new standalone harness and ECM from Ford Performance.

On the GM side you are looking at an LS2 and I do not really see thoes for less than $3000 in running condition, then the transmission you will be in $2000-$2500 for a 6 speed. Add maybe $500 for harness.

But that is one situation where it is cheaper than a LS and there are probably a lot of other factors I did not include. Its not like you couldnt build a 5.3 for less than $1000 overall invested to make 400hp and there are occasional deals on manual transmissions. I got my TR6060 for $1100 so you can find deals.

[pbonsalb]

I was looking at a Z3 with LSx swap yesterday. Looked great. Headers will be custom because E36 version were a little tight. The Coyote 4 valve heads will make the top of the motor wider and this could make working on the car harder compared to the LSx. This was an LS with alloy heads from a 2001 Camaro and apparently gained major power with just a cam and a tune. The owner is doing custom headers with two piece manifold on the drivers side so the steering column is not going through a one piece header.

[Laminar]

The Coyote 4 valve heads will make the top of the motor wider and this could make working on the car harder compared to the LSx.

I'll tell you the only thing that would be easier on the Coyote - spark plugs. I just did plugs and wires on an Escalade. You'd think with such a tiny engine in a huge vehicle there'd be plenty of space, right? Well, the passenger side rear spark plug is a BEAR to get to. I tore up my arms on the A/C heat shield and ended up having to go in from under the car and thread the spark plug in completely by feel alone, and still almost cross-threaded it.

[Tim Mc]

Spark plugs on our E36 LS swap are a cinch (15 minutes for all 8). Header design is likely a big variable for access. Chuck's Supertubes are the ticket!

Based on the sheer number of swaps...LS. We also put a priority of minimal fabrication...we are not as accomplished as some (read Laminar!).

[C10 LS1 1968]

I did a fair amount of research on the 5.0 Mustangs before I bought one. Yes it was used with 18,000 miles. Well taken care of and we are the second owner. Couple things I found as I researched the 5.0 Mustang 6 speeds. Not the most robust trans according to the internet gurus. Ours is fine. Still under factory warranty thru 2019. Big hp 5.0 guys sell the Getrag and put in a T56 magnum.
One thing I can say is that the stock 2014 5.0 6 speed shifter is extremely vague. Easy to go from 1st to 3rd even at low rpms. Like wise down shifts can be very vague in regards to what gear you have selected. Totally the opposite of the T56 Magnum in my 68 C10. The internet gurus swear by Barton shifters for the Mustangs. That's what will be going into my 5.0 in the next month or so. Cost $370.
I don't what makes the difference but the truck 5.0's are not rated at anything near 420 hp. I suspect lower compression and much milder cams?
Don't know if you have read the long term test in Car and Driver detailing the 40,000 test of the Mustang GT 350 with the Voodoo flat plane engine. No doubt they liked the car but a quart oil every 500 miles?
Again I like everyone to build what they think is cool. This forum made it possible for me to build my E36 LS swap and I thank them for that.

[Laminar]

I don't what makes the difference but the truck 5.0's are not rated at anything near 420 hp. I suspect lower compression and much milder cams?

Lower compression (10.5 vs 11), lower duration intake cam, cast iron exhaust manifolds (vs stainless steel), different intake. But I think the biggest factor is that they don't want to step on the toes of the "premium" 3.5 EcoBoost (375hp/470tq), so there's no incentive to pump the numbers up. They're only putting the Coyote in the truck for people that think they want a V8, but they need to make sure the 3.5 is a clear upgrade. If all of a sudden the truck Coyote was making 460hp, people would start asking questions about why they should pay extra for the "less powerful" EcoBoost because people are dumb and don't know why big power at 7000rpm is worse than useless in a truck.

[C10 LS1 1968]

I agree 100% FORD is so invested in the Eco Boost tech they don't want the higher hp 5.0s in trucks.