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Thread: Repaired "sword", yet blower won't turn off when switch set to "0"

  1. #1
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    [FIXED] Repaired "sword", yet blower won't turn off when switch set to "0"

    Greetings

    I am fairly new to these forums. I used to hang out a lot on bimmerboard.be (= Belgian forum), but since these forums are very quiet lately, I was thinking more about "moving" here :P

    Anyways, to the point. I have a E32 and the blower motor blew inconsistant, regardless what speed was selected on the switch of the climate control unit. So I pulled out the sword and changed the MOSFETs. Succes! Blower is consistant now at all speeds.

    BUT there is a problem. When the switch is set to "0", the blower won't turn off. It keeps blowing as if it was still at the lowest speed. Maybe even a little faster than the lowest speed (and the lowest speed setting is also a little faster than it should be, I think, not 100% sure)
    When I turn the ignition off, the blower also turns off. Most of the times when it's a sword related problem, it should keep blowing, even with the ignition off (was like this on my E46 anyways).

    COULD it be that there is something wrong with my switch on the climate control unit? Or is there another non-MOSFET related problem with my sword? I don't have enough knowledge of capacitors / transistors ect to know what might be faulty on my sword.

    Any ideas?
    Last edited by megastihl; 09-21-2018 at 09:42 AM.

  2. #2
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    Hope a electr. expert can chime in, in my opinion can be 2 faults possible, and probably the relay in the sword handle. I remember some posts on the old bimmernur forum many, many, years ago

    The speed switch in the IHKA control panel is defective

    or the sword has a problem:
    the SWORD has a 5 pin connector

    Pin 1 connector for the potentiometer for speed regulation at the control panel.
    Pin 2 power supply
    Pin 3: the relay get's contact when the blower fan potentiometer is adjusted, 12 volts come on.
    Pin 4 is ground
    Pin 5 the cable/wire from the blower fan.
    Remove the plastic covers from the sword and connect it again to the control panel. Use a multimeter to test it.
    When you turn the thumbwheel at the potentiometer, the voltage at pin 1 changes from 1.1 - 4.25 volts. As the transistor, which amplifies the potentiometer, only has a voltage (input) of 5 volts, that should be the full power of adjustment.
    In case the blower fan only starts at let's say 3.5 volts then the pre-amplifier IC (I think it is IC LM 139) is defective. There are 2 pre-amps installed


    the relay inside the handle of the sword I would check first, if those contact are stuck, always power, see the pics I posted here http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/136145/
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  3. #3
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    Hi. Thanks again for the reply shogun. I don't think the relay is the problem. I had it checked and the contacts were not stuck, and iirc the relay is only used to operate the blower at full speed. The voltages on the pins might be a good start, so thanks for that. I'll check it out this afternoon.
    Last edited by shogun; 03-20-2018 at 06:34 PM. Reason: quote deleted

  4. #4
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    more here for testing the sword, I assume you also understand German, the better http://www.e32-schrauber.de/bmw/s-heizschwert.htm
    see especially Hilfsschaltung zum Testen des Heizschwertes
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  5. #5
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    in all honesty, I don't speak a single word of German. But I hope google translate might help me

  6. #6
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    UPDATE! So I just used my voltmeter over pin 1 and 4, and I've got this:
    Switch at 0: 1.40V
    Switch at 1: 1.45V
    Switch anything from 1 up to max, nice linear voltage from 1.5V up to 4V.
    Switch at max: sword relais engages

    Now, what happened today: switch at 0, blower is off, but it stays off until I got 3V. Pre-amps broken? The thing is: I can solder it, but I have no clue what a pre-amp is. Lemme google it again

    Also: Isn't 1.4V and 1.45V too close a gap? As in: will the blower/sword really react to a difference of 0.05V to switch from off to on?
    Last edited by megastihl; 02-23-2018 at 06:55 AM.

  7. #7
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    That I leave up to the electr. gurus.
    I found this under Nachtrag, I translate:
    An den Vorwiderständen zum Gate wird eine Spannung zwischen 1 und ca 10 Volt gemessen. At the series resistors to the gate you should measure between 1 and approx 10V (remarks: Vorwiderstand = in English series resistor, I assume)

    Nachtrag: Nach dem hier nun öfters die Frage gestellt wurde, warum das Gebläse nicht ausgeht, ob wohl der Schalter auf "0" steht, hier nun des Rätsels Lösung: Es ist der Leistungs-FET. Er ist durchgeschlagen, d. h. hat einen kurzschluß.
    The question has often been posted why the blower fan does not stop, although the switch is set to "0", the answer is: it is the FET, it is shorted, damaged

    Test:
    In der Stellung "MAX" läuft das Gebläse geringfügig schneller als in dem Regelbereich. Das liegt an dem Relais, welches bei "MAX" die FETs brückt. Um den defekten FET zu finden, müssen alle FETs ausgelötet werden und wie in dem Anhang gezeigt, getestet werden. Mit zwei Fingern abwechselnd 1 und 2 (AN) und 1 und 3 (AUS) berührt werden. Es handelt sich um BUZ71, BUZ11 kann ebenso verwendet werden. Warum der BUZ nach nur 3 Wochen nach der Reparatur durchgeknallt ist, k. A. Also auch diese Fehlervariante kann am Heizschwert auftreten.

    In position MAX the blower fan runs slightly higher than in the adjustable positions/range. This is caused by the relay, which at MAX 'bridges' the FETs. To find out a defective FET, they all have to to be desoldered as shown in enclosed pic, tested. With 2 fingers alternatively touch 1 and 2 (ON) and 1 and 3 (OFF). They are BUZ71, BUZ11 can also be used. The reason why my BUZ only lasted 3 weeks after the repair, I do not know (k.A. = keine Ahung = do not know). That means also such a fault can occure after a repair.
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  8. #8
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    thanks for the reply. Unfortunately I don't know enough about this, still. It would be best if I can bring my sword to someone and then let him tell me what's wrong with it. Unfortunately that will probably never happen

  9. #9
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    Let's wait if someone here chimes in.

    alternatives:
    As you are located in Belgium you could send it to Puscheparts in Germany, he repairs it for EURO 89 and gives 2 years warranty https://www.ebay.de/itm/Reparatur-BM...AAAOSwzgBY3DRz

    on his website for EURO 79,- for the standard repair and 179 for the more complicated repair as outlined there, website http://puschesparts.de/
    click Dienstleistungen und Reparaturen http://puschesparts.de/index.php/die...ngen-reparatur

    Look at www.puschesparts.de or on ebay dot de for user: PuschesParts
    His name is Ralf Pusch (Pusches) and he is the President of the BMW 8-Series Club / Clube31 Worldwide Owners Group + member of the BMW Classic and Type Clubs and officially accepted by BMW.He also has his own E31 forum website in Germany

    or buy another used one.
    and one more repair info, big file http://www.ah525i24ve34.at/HTML_ah52...chwert_PDF.pdf
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  10. #10
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    Thanks. I'll keep that in mind if I can't get it working myself. That last link might be of some help. I have no clue what the purpose of these condensors/transistors are regarding the sword (I know a little about condensors, or capacitors as they are called in English I think, but more regarding audio than sword-related stuff), but if I replace them with new ones with the same values, that might solve the problem, right?

    But I am kinda worried about these voltages I read. 1.4V on off, and 1.45V on "1". It would make more sence to me that the voltage would be 0 when "off", because 0.05V difference sounds like very little to swap from on to off. Could be the potentiometer of the blower switch in the climate control panel. Would be easier if I had a spare to test.

    Buying a used one is a problem here in Belgium. 5 years ago I was considering buying another E32 for parts, as these cars were sold for €1000. Nowadays you would have to look for weeks to find one under €3000, which will probably be in terrible shape. Used parts of BMW's before 1995 are a pain in the ass to find, and if you find them they ask rediculous prices for them.

    Anyways. I'll see what I can do. If I get it fixed eventually I'll report back here, in case someone else has the same problem

  11. #11
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    I also had this problem, i swapped out the climate control panel and it stopped activating the fan when the switch was set to zero. my old panel was full of gremlins, even though my blower sword was new rebuilt from programa, it still wouldn't obey commands from the climate control panel. swapping out the panel stopped the bogus commands.

  12. #12
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    Thanks for sharing this. Right now I think the problem is the sword, because the blower only activates when it reads 3V or more, but probably when that is fixed, the climate control panel will be next to stop sending faulty commands to the sword.
    You think it could be the fan control switch alone? Or do you think I need to replace the whole panel? Because iirc it's possible to order the switch seperately

  13. #13
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    If you need a cpl. control panel, search on German Ebay for BMW E32 Bedienteil IHKA

    Here is a German cpl. tech training manual, Klimaautomatik IHKA (German language PDF) , download it to your PC http://www.e38.org/e32/klimaautomatik.pdf
    section 4.1 is Bedieneinheit = control panel
    There is also a wiring diagram, translate this:
    Luftmengenwaehlrad
    Als elektrisches Stellglied fuer die Luftmenge dient ebenfalls ein Drehpotentiometer. In Stellung 0 ist die Anlage ausgeschaltet (sowie die ganze Funktionsbeleuchtung) mit Ausnahme des Defrost Programmes. Das heist, Geblaese aus, alle Klappen in ZU-Position. In der ersten Raste des Geblaeserades laeuft das Geblaese konstant mit circa 4.5 V Spannung. In Stellung MAX wird ueber einen Endlagenschalter ein Relais, das in der ersten Geblaeseendstufe integriert ist, angesteuert und damit die Geblaeseendstufe ueberbrueckt. (Bordnetzspannung am Geblaese). Im dazwischen liegenden Keilbereich am Waehlrad erfolgt eine stufenlose Geblaesedrehzahlreglung.

    The drawing on page 14 shows the volts.
    So the first simple test is: switch the control switch to off and then all the lights on the control panel should be off, except the one for defrost. If light is still on, the problem is either the switch or the control panel.

    Here is another fix of the control panel by Patrick, soldering joints cracked: Fixed IHKA intermittently powering on and off http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/1249309/
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  14. #14
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    thanks again. This could be very helpful!

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    Here's my "N2 Final Stage Unit" (Sword) test procedure:

    pin 1 - variable resistance to 12V
    pin 2 - 12 VDC
    pin 3 - touch briefly to 12V to close the full-speed relay
    pin 4 - GND
    pin 5 - Minus blower terminal (or use a headlamp, say)

    Connect the Plus terminal of blower motor or headlamp to 12 V.

    With 100K ohms at pin 1 you should measure 0.5 V to Gnd
    As resistance drops, pin 1 voltage will rise and the fan will run faster (or bulb brighter)
    At 15,000 ohms pin 1 voltage is 2.5
    At 10,000 ohms pin 1 voltage is 3.5
    At 5,000 ohms pin 1 voltage is 5.0 and the fan is at top speed

    If you get erratic results, the amplifiers in the Sword may be oscillating, which you can fix by renewing the caps inside the black box.

  16. #16
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    Hi. Thank you very much for the reply. But pardon my rediculous reponse, but I don't get it. "Connect the Plus terminal of blower motor or headlamp to 12 V. "
    As in: connect the blower motor or a lamp to the 12V that comes out of pin1?

    I'll do these volt-readings tomorrow. Also: I don't know enough of these things. I can change/solder whatever you tell me to, but I don't know exactly what the "amplifiers" are on my sword. If I show you a picture then next time I open it, could you draw a circle around it so I know what I'm looking for?

    A funny thing that happened ... As I had to go somewhere with the E32, I decided to put the sword back into the car. I connected it, and like before, blower only turns on when the switch is around halfway. Then I actually put it into the car again (behind the heather/evaporator) and for some reason it runs on 0 and 1 again. Climate control panel is completely off (all leds out, excluding the rear window defog, dunno how to say it in English) and fan still blowing softly. Also noticed that the flaps to guide the air don't open/close when I tab the buttons on the panel. Example: the button for circulation on the inside, so not outside air can come in (again, pardon my poor English), when I press it I hear a relay clicking but don't hear any flaps opening/closing. Very strange. But then again, lets not focus on that right now

  17. #17
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    Inside the Sword case you will see 3 capacitors marked 3.3 uF/50V. They are C1, C4, C5.

    You can buy Panasonic EEU-EB1H3R3S capacitors from DigiKey.be for E 0,23 each. They are polarized, so there is a + on the board.
    You could also order a variable resistor such as P160KNP-0QD20B50K

    For testing on your workbench, a 50 watt headlamp is a more convenient load than the blower motor. (Big, heavy, and in your car!)

    One terminal of the lamp goes to pin 5. The other terminal of the lamp goes to 12V.
    Last edited by shogun; 03-20-2018 at 06:32 PM. Reason: quote deleted

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    understood. Thanks a lot. I'll come back in a few days with the results

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by megastihl View Post
    understood. Thanks a lot. I'll come back in a few days with the results
    If you don't have a good set of alligator test leads, treat yourself to this Quality set of 10: BU-00287 costing E 5,54 for the set.

    You can use them for the rest of your life, and then they will be treasured in your Estate.

  20. #20
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    I don't, so I'll order me a set. I was already looking to buy something similar, as it comes in handy very often.

  21. #21
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    O_o took the car for a drive today. All vent flaps, blower speed and sword functions worked perfect like it should. Nothing strange at all. VERY weird ... Nonetheless, the next time something is odd, I'll check the current like E32fan told me.

  22. #22
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    Additional info posted on a German forum: Ergänzung/additional info: die Folienkondensatoren haben 0,47µF 63V und 10% Toleranz = the foil condensators have 0,47µF 63V and 10% tolerance
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  23. #23
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    thanks, shogun. But I will check it out somewhere within the next 2 weeks. Unfortunately I don't have time right now. But as soon as I'm back into it, or when I have result and it works again, I'll keep you guys posted!

  24. #24
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    Ergaenzung: Heizschwert- Geblaese geht nicht aus .Nach dem hier nun oefters die Frage gestellt wurde, warum das Geblaese nicht ausgeht, obwohl der Schalter auf "0" steht, hier nun des Raetsels Loesung: Es ist der Leistungs-FET. Er ist durchgeschlagen, d. h. hat einen Kurzschluss. Test: In der Stellung "MAX" laeuft das Geblaese geringfuegig schneller als in dem Regelbereich. Das liegt an dem Relais, welches bei "MAX" die FETs brueckt. Um den defekten FET zu finden, muessen alle FETs ausgeloetet werden und wie in dem Anhang gezeigt, getestet werden. Mit zwei Fingern abwechselnd 1 und 2 (AN) und 1 und 3 (AUS) beruehrt werden. Es handelt sich um BUZ71, BUZ11 kann ebenso verwendet werden. Also auch diese Fehlervariante kann am Heizschwert auftreten.
    Link with pic how to test: http://www.7-forum.com/forum/showthread.html?t=111467

    English: Additional info: Heater sword blower does not stop the blower fan.....This question was aked before several times, why the blower does not stop, although the switch is on "0", here now the solution: It is a defective Power MOSFET . It has a short circuit.
    Test: In the "MAX" position, the fan runs slightly faster than in the control range. This is due to the relay, which bridges the FETs at "MAX". To find the faulty FET, all FETs must be de-soldered and tested as shown in the appendix. With two fingers alternately 1 and 2 (ON) and 1 and 3 (OFF) are touched. It is BUZ71, BUZ11 can also be used. So this error variant can occur on the heater sword too.
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by shogun View Post
    Ergaenzung: Heizschwert- Geblaese geht nicht aus .Nach dem hier nun oefters die Frage gestellt wurde, warum das Geblaese nicht ausgeht, obwohl der Schalter auf "0" steht, hier nun des Raetsels Loesung: Es ist der Leistungs-FET. Er ist durchgeschlagen, d. h. hat einen Kurzschluss. Test: In der Stellung "MAX" laeuft das Geblaese geringfuegig schneller als in dem Regelbereich. Das liegt an dem Relais, welches bei "MAX" die FETs brueckt. Um den defekten FET zu finden, muessen alle FETs ausgeloetet werden und wie in dem Anhang gezeigt, getestet werden. Mit zwei Fingern abwechselnd 1 und 2 (AN) und 1 und 3 (AUS) beruehrt werden. Es handelt sich um BUZ71, BUZ11 kann ebenso verwendet werden. Also auch diese Fehlervariante kann am Heizschwert auftreten.
    Link with pic how to test: http://www.7-forum.com/forum/showthread.html?t=111467

    English: Additional info: Heater sword blower does not stop the blower fan.....This question was aked before several times, why the blower does not stop, although the switch is on "0", here now the solution: It is a defective Power MOSFET . It has a short circuit.
    Test: In the "MAX" position, the fan runs slightly faster than in the control range. This is due to the relay, which bridges the FETs at "MAX". To find the faulty FET, all FETs must be de-soldered and tested as shown in the appendix. With two fingers alternately 1 and 2 (ON) and 1 and 3 (OFF) are touched. It is BUZ71, BUZ11 can also be used. So this error variant can occur on the heater sword too.
    Thanks! I'll report as soon as I've tried it, but that might not be right now. My fuel pressure regulator gave out recently. Rough idle and lot of fumes. Fuel pressure regulator lets fuel through the vacuum lines, causing the engine to run way too rich. + I just bought a E46 to swap the 3 liter engine into my 2.2. Gonna strip the donor E46 and bring the chassis to the dump to get some space in my garage, then it's time to get working on the E32 again!

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