Looking at 2000 Z3M roadster

[Slowphiveo]

Hello all,

First off, thanks in advance for any replies. I'm a newb when it comes to these cars (not cars in general). I did read through the sticky threads about what to look for pre-purchase. I'm looking at a 2000 M roadster. The car has a clean carfax (which we all know does not always tell the whole story)...4 previous owners with 71,000 miles. The car seems to be in very nice shape cosmetically, from the pictures I've seen and the interior looks mint. The car looks like it spent most of the past 18 years in Texas so it should be (hopefully) rust free. The dealer is asking $15,495. That price doesn't seem to be terribly unreasonable based on the mileage and apparent condition. I'm not certain that the dealer has access to the previous service records as the car was purchased at auction. As a novice, what should I be looking for when I see the car in person? At 71,000 miles, what am I looking at for potential maintenance concerns on the horizon? I do know the car has brand new tires on all four corners. I'm sure I can get the dealer down on the price to under $15k...Thanks for any input! The car is a few hours away so I really don't want to waste my time if it's not a good car. Link below...
https://www.gegauto.com/mobile/mdeta...x?vid=10473580

Also VIN...if maybe anyone knows this car and it's history?
WBSCK9340YLC92801

[Mr Bingley]

Well, that's a very clean example--doesn't show any of the normal wear area issues. Obviously, if you haven't read up on it already, the major thing to check is the subframe/trunk floor/differential mount issue. It looks like to PO took really good care of it--at least cosmetically. Very decent price for the miles and condition. Likely maintenance issues: VANOS (variable valve timing seals), poly subframe bushings (if they haven't been done already), GIUBO, cooling system refresh, seat track bushings (if they haven't been done already). I say if the spot welds in the trunk check out and the differential mount bracket is not stress cracked, buy it.

[zellamay]

This might be an example of what I was talking about in a recent thread on this topic. At 70k, it may have none of the fixes done that usually come by 100k or so. That means it's just ready to have a lot of money spent on it. That's okay if you start at $10-$12,000, but not if you start at $15,000. My point is that a car with 100k miles, with some of this stuff done, for say $10k, is a far better deal. .... This is not a complete list, just what comes to mind, and this is in addition to maintenance items like tires and battery: cooling system overhaul, shocks, tires, sub-frame bushings, trailing arm bushings, control arms, misc electrical stuff, misc plastic stuff, clutch, shift pins, glove box, vanos, subframe reinforcement if it needs it .... I know there's more. Second problem, and this is just my opinion: it's a dealer. $15k means that the owner parted with the car for far less than that, closer to the numbers I mentioned above. Also, dealers conveniently don't know anything about the car, so not liable for whatever is undisclosed.

[Mark Bielick]

By far, most important, look in the trunk at the spot welds holding the differential mount. Attached is a picture of what you DONT want to see. When I bought my Z3, I was 4 hours from the dealer, and I had them take a picture of the trunk floor to verify that the spot welds were good. No reason they can't do that for you.MRoadster_Strongsville_Failed_Mounts.jpg

[BimmerBreaker]

For that price I'd be looking more at S54 roadsters myself...!

[gtwhimself]

Bought my 98 M Roady with 41k on it. Dealer was asking $15k. I took it to a friend who builds track BMWs who examined it, said everything was good but for some welds in the trunk floor, and advised me on what the cost would run to fix - about $1500. Dealer knocked the price down by that much and I bought it. First thing I did was the trunk fix at a reputable BMW shop that had dome many others, for under $800. Have been very happy with the car. Just turned 109k.

[zellamay]

So that's $13,500 for 41k miles, puts that 70k car nearer to $11,000. Other examples, I bought my 98, in 2016, for $7900 with 94k miles and none of those things done, except it did have new brake pads. There was one for sale here in Phoenix for $9,000 with about 120k miles, I don't know the maintenance, but it looked really good. it's gone, so I assume it sold. BB has a good point. At $15,000, I'd want the S54.

[Mr Bingley]

I'm sure a higher--over 100K---example could be had for a lot less, but that's not really the point, this car has 71,000 miles on it--at 3k a year (what I put on mine), that's 10 more driving years than a 100K miler no matter how you look at it, and that's worth a premium. Gtwhmself, I'm not sure what you had done for under $800, but it certainly wasn't the extensive repair that's called for; a more realistic cost to properly repair that issue is $3,500.00--just the parts are over $500, and it's a solid week's labor by a skilled welder and shop--post pics of what they did top and bottom.

[zellamay]

Here is a recent thread giving some more opinions: https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...dations-advice

[Slowphiveo]

Very good info presented here...thank you. I will probably end up putting 2k miles a year or less on the car based on how much I drove my previous weekend cars...and realistically probably won't have the car more than 5-7 years. I'm not a do it yourself "wrencher" other than the basics like oil changes, brake pads/rotors, etc. So anything other than stuff a novice could handle would be done by a mechanic. I do have a well respected garage in the area that specializes in German cars, so I'm not concerned about having to rely on a dealership for more involved service. I think if I can talk the dealer down to the $13.5k to $14k range I may make the 2.5 hour trip to see the car and check it out with my own eyes. I do know that the dealer has had the car since August and probably is motivated to sell. It does concern me slightly that they have had the car that long, but it's not uncommon in the northeast for summer only cars to sit all winter if they are recovered by dealers in the latter part of the summer. I also think this particular dealer priced himself out if the market as the original asking price was $17.5k back in August.

[ProductUser]

If you like it, pay what you feel is reasonable. I have a 2000 M Roadster that I purchased with 67k miles for $14k some 8 years ago. I've put a lot of $$ into the car, including the subframe fix, simply because I enjoy the roadster. I know I will never recover what I put in my roadster, but boy does it put a smile on my face.

[gtwhimself]

BB has a good point. At $15,000, I'd want the S54.

Visited All German Auto in Escondido (North San Diego County) before I bought my 98 M Roadster. Asked them about buying an S54 instead of the S52. Pete, one of their great mechanics, pointed to a motor on a pallet nearby with an S54 engine on it - and pointed out the carnage caused by rod bearing failure. I decided I'd be happy with my S52.

[pine1000]

From the pictures it seems cosmetically well maintained. I would check the subframe/trunk spot welds, and normal car stuff. I looked at several roadsters and most were well maintained in terms of oil changes and appearance. However, the ball joints, bushings, shocks, flex disc were original and worn out (the rubber stuff wears with age not just mileage). If you have to do a suspension and cooling system overhaul, $12k-$13k is probably a more reasonable price.

All this said, it seems that M Roadster prices are on the rise. At least it seems that way based on asking price. There are 2 S52s on CL near Charlotte and they are both in the upper teens.

[zellamay]

Visited All German Auto in Escondido (North San Diego County) before I bought my 98 M Roadster. Asked them about buying an S54 instead of the S52. Pete, one of their great mechanics, pointed to a motor on a pallet nearby with an S54 engine on it - and pointed out the carnage caused by rod bearing failure. I decided I'd be happy with my S52.

I agree (I guess I'm agreeing with both opinions, but for different reasons.) It seems the S52 is better for the economy-minded. The S54 rod bearing thing is scary, and S52s have no solid lifters to adjust. One reason I like mine is cheap/easy/reliable. But, I'd like the power of the S54. I wonder whether an s52 owner would be better of with a supercharger for about the same price difference. He would end with about the same power as the S54, but more reliable???? Plus, (assuming you know your car), you don't have the hassle of learning a new car.

[BimmerBreaker]

If you don't work on your cars yourself, yes an S52 is probably a better proposition. But I wouldnt call a F/I S52 more reliable than an N/A S54... sure the S54 has some failure points and needs valve adjustments here and there but F/I is a huge added complexity, even as reliable as the S52 can be I think adding F/I always adds a certain "unknown" factor - if nothing else, adding F/I means more parts, more parts to go wrong means a higher probability of failure in it's own right

[zellamay]

If you don't work on your cars yourself, yes an S52 is probably a better proposition. But I wouldnt call a F/I S52 more reliable than an N/A S54... sure the S54 has some failure points and needs valve adjustments here and there but F/I is a huge added complexity, even as reliable as the S52 can be I think adding F/I always adds a certain "unknown" factor - if nothing else, adding F/I means more parts, more parts to go wrong means a higher probability of failure in it's own right

I thought you'd chime in. You've had both. (I think you've even done an S54 conversion, which seems like the most difficult option.) Do you have an opinion as to which way an S52 owner should go? ... S54 or supercharge ???

[BimmerBreaker]

My .02 on the matter is the best answer is to enjoy the S52 for what it is. If you supercharge it to chase S54 power you sacrifice some reliability, so why not just start with an S54 at that point? If you didn't want an S54 because of reliability or maintenance cost/running cost reasons then a supercharged car isn't going to be a whole lot better. Of course if you want to go much faster than an S54, I think an S52 makes for a cheaper starting point but thats a different discussion. If you want a fun car to drive for relatively cheap compared to the smiles it provides, a stock S52 (or pretty nearly stock) is a good bet.

I like to have high-mile, worn examples of cool cars... 200K+ mile X5 4.6is, my S54 coupe has 160K on the engine now (230K on chassis), so yeah, for $15k I'd be scrounging up a bit more to buy that Phoenix Yellow M Roadster. But I understand not everyone is like that. And on that note, for the record I bought my car S54 swapped, though I'm no stranger to that caliber of work. I was a pretty diehard S52 guy until my s54 coupe came for sale locally, I had to check it out, basically made a lowball offer and he said no, was a real nice guy, I just couldn't afford what he was asking. Had just sold my S52 M Roadster and had some money burning in my pocket a few months later, called the guy, after some jibber jabber he told me my offer was still the only offer he had and to come back and look at it again... I ended up paying a hair more, but it would have cost me a lot more to build the car than I paid for it. Since then I've sort of made a habit of buying people's running, but not finished, projects and just tidying up the odds and ends.... (though, I have a feeling at some point soon I'll be on the losing end of this type of arrangement when I sell my S52 M Coupe!)

[zellamay]

Another good example at $12000, indicates $15k is just too high, https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...000-M-Roadster

[Mr Bingley]

Another good example at $12000, indicates $15k is just too high, https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...000-M-Roadster

Hey, knock off the down pricing of your own car (and mine)--that gets you less than nowhere. I think we can all agree that our cars are worth top $ and are only going up up up in price. Snagging a well preserved low miles S52 Roadster for $15K or less is a remarkable bargain.

I supercharged my S52 at 112K and now I'm at 132K, and other than changing the SC oil at 2500, and then every 7500 miles thereafter, I've had no maintenance related to the SC whatsoever. It has remarkably more power than stock (although that's damning with faint praise), but I still wouldn't call it fast--quick, and Sprightly, but not fast.

[zellamay]

Hey, knock off the down pricing of your own car (and mine)--that gets you less than nowhere. I think we can all agree that our cars are worth top $ and are only going up up up in price. Snagging a well preserved low miles S52 Roadster for $15K or less is a remarkable bargain.

I supercharged my S52 at 112K and now I'm at 132K, and other than changing the SC oil at 2500, and then every 7500 miles thereafter, I've had no maintenance related to the SC whatsoever. It has remarkably more power than stock (although that's damning with faint praise), but I still wouldn't call it fast--quick, and Sprightly, but not fast.

Well, I hope you're right. I'd like to see mine grow in value, or at least stay close to what I have in it. I have noticed in the 2 years I've owned it that other cars it compares to have dropped in value, while these seem to stay about the same.

[Mr Bingley]

Well, I hope you're right. I'd like to see mine grow in value, or at least stay close to what I have in it. I have noticed in the 2 years I've owned it that other cars it compares to have dropped in value, while these seem to stay about the same.

The low end of the value curve for ///M's was in the great recession--I bought mine from the original owner in 2010 with 108K on it for $8K in basically perfect shape--always garaged, dealer maintained with all service records, new rubber, and a SuperSprint exhaust to boot--all it needed was seat rail bushings. These cars have gone up in value in the time I've owned mine.

[pine1000]

I got mine 4 years ago for $12k with 63k miles. I think it was a good deal considering it had a hardtop. It was well serviced (meaning oil changes, tires and obvious things), but had the original flex disc, shocks, bushings etc. It's got 85k miles now and I've put about $2k in parts into it. It needs the shift pin service, so I will be spending more soon.

I could probably sell it and get all of my money back, but what car would I get for $14k that would be this much fun?

If the value ever equals that of a nice used Cayman S, I will be tempted...

[Tallyho322]

I have the same year car as you are looking at. Mine had new rubber, and other than that was very stock. I paid $13,500 last year. I primarily checked the trunk floor welds and the differential mounts, drove it and took her home. So far so good, but I did have to do a little work on her.
- the radiator drain valve broke (little plastic plug).
- air bag light came on (bought a cable and got the diagnostic software from this site to trouble shoot and reset)
- changed fluids and air filter
- fan belt tensioner bearings started squealing, replaced the tensioner.

Have not done the fan delete, but did run it around without mech fan for a little while. Liked the “no noise”factor, but just not convinced yet to leave it out.

Car are is parked for the winter now, but can’t wait until spring!

Really fun car car to drive.

good luck on your decision.

Greg

[Tommm]

You guys depress me. I am thinking of selling my 64k M Roadster and I was hoping to get more than 15. I know I paid a premium for the car in 2012 because it was local, had records, etc. But, until this thread I thought it maintained it's value or went up. I guess the Coupe's rising tide didn't raise all.

[zellamay]

You guys depress me. I am thinking of selling my 64k M Roadster and I was hoping to get more than 15. I know I paid a premium for the car in 2012 because it was local, had records, etc. But, until this thread I thought it maintained it's value or went up. I guess the Coupe's rising tide didn't raise all.

One problem is that some other very good cars have dropped in value. Look at what you can get for $15k+. If you don't have to sell, just hold out for your price. I know of a 300ZXTT that has been for sale at a high price for over 2 years. (If I could afford to maintain the thing I'd buy it.) What I've noticed is that there are fewer decent examples each year. Someday he'll get his price.