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Do the OBD1 valve covers warp like the later style plastic ones can? I have some slow weeping at the lower font leading edge adjacent to the Vanos. It drips down to the primary chain tensioner and onto the a/c compressor. I've tried two BMW VCGs, new rubber grommets, RTV at the Vanos/cylinder head junction, proper torque sequence, etc. but still get the weeping. My valve cover looks to be level and in good condition, but maybe it's not level at the front?
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Did you put the dabs of silicone at the interface in that area?
I also have a slow weep that's getting on the compressor and exhaust, but I always buy the cheap gasket (victor reinz?), this time I went with felpro and there grommets. The felpro is super flexible like a rubber band, but I may put a thin film of rtv silicone on the cylinder head along the whole lower half and let it cure for an hour to let it solidify so that it won't get pressed underneath the valve cover and potentially make it's way into the oil. I'm pretty sure my valve cover is not warped but I guess I'll give it a check when it's off.
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I've done three of these now. First time I used Victor Reinz with RTV on the half moons and where the Vanos meets the cylinder head. The VR gasket started leaking within 6 months near the rear - dripping onto the exhaust down pipes. I noticed it because I could smell burnt oil through the vents at stop lights.
The second one was the OE BMW gasket. It I re-used the VC nut bushings since they were only 6 months old. I also used Aviation #3 sealant along the leading lower edge plus RTV at the half moons. No leak at the rear but now the slow weak above the primary tensioner.
Third time I tried new Elring bushings figuring the others were too compressed and also a new OE gasket (saved the other as a back-up since it's newish). Used just RTV at the half moons and Vanos junction. Let it dry overnight. Same results - no leak at rear but slow drip at lower front leading edge. Guess I'm either going to just live with it since it's minor or try a used M50 valve cover, but that's a crap shoot since they're over 20 years old at this point.
Balogne Cajones
They certainly can warp.
I've found that on most valve covers the paint on the may ring surface chipped, cracked, and large portions missing. Sometimes after removing the remnants of the paint to leave the clean mating edge, there is usually about a mm of thickness gone. I've brought this up before and been excused as inconsequential. But I would think that that mm of lost material would probably sacrifice a bit of clamping force between the cover and gasket. #shrugsshoulder. Personally I'm waiting to just swap to a m52 valve cover on my m50. Absolutely sick of dealing with the magnesium valve covers.
Nobody would recertify these machines after somebody screwed with them without any visibility into what they did.
HONK! HONK! Clown car coming through!
-Oakdizzle
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When the vcg dry out I get weeping towards the rear of the cover. I may try to put a thin line of rtv all around next time though people say it is not recommended. I use rtv on the aluminum tstat housing and the oil filter housing with great results. As of now I've only put 6 dabs of rtv on when replacing the vcg. I don't believe that the magnesium covers warp like the plastic obd2 covers do, but due to casting the magnesium covers have hair line holes and cracks...I get just a little weeping but not enough for it to drip on to the exhaust.
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I wish they had produced the M52/S52 VC in magnesium.Originally Posted by spyderg0d
I do not believe the M/S52 VC are OBDI compatible. Coils and PCV system are different as I recall.
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Last edited by bluptgm3; 07-11-2019 at 08:52 AM.
Balogne Cajones
The coils are only different on the mount spacing. Coils plugin and perform the same. The pcv is a simple hose splice from the obdll valve cover hose end to the obdl valve cover plastic input piece.
I'm actually even going to remove the coil harness section from the obd 1 harness and input the obdll coil harness.
Nobody would recertify these machines after somebody screwed with them without any visibility into what they did.
HONK! HONK! Clown car coming through!
-Oakdizzle
Member
BMW CCA Member
tighten it more...lol.
But seriously, mine wept after replacing it, I went a bit beyond torque spec in the couple areas it was weeping from and it stopped it.
Member
Generally, once the shoulder bolts are seated on the head gasket surface no amount of ‘additional’ torque is going to make any difference with regard to VC gasket compression.
I have seen people add an additional washer p/n 11127838077 under the shoulder-bolt head that accomplishes additional compression of each of the Rubber Seal p/n 11121437395 at each VC attach fastener p/n 11121738607 (bolt, washer, rubber seal) and 11121738608 (stud, washer, rubber seal) which does result in more VC gasket compression.
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Last edited by bluptgm3; 02-22-2018 at 01:32 PM.
Balogne Cajones
Nothing to do with the thread. But one time I had a customer that complained of weeping valve cover. He said he tightened the nuts more. I went through the explanation that the nuts only go so far and that the rubber grommets are what presses the valve cover and if they are old and stiff they don't work... He said I was completely wrong and I was stupid. Some people just cannot think for themselves. So I showed him. I've never seen someone so confused by a nut bottoming out. But it happens I guess.
Nobody would recertify these machines after somebody screwed with them without any visibility into what they did.
HONK! HONK! Clown car coming through!
-Oakdizzle
Member
I tried this and snapped one of the studs. Fortunately the e36 is an easy access design where you don’t have to pull the cover to remove and replace the stud...unless you break it flush with the cylinder head. As Spyder said once the nut cap bottoms out it’s really the rubber grommet holding down the cover. That’s why the torque spec is only 89 inch pounds.
I’m guessing I have a slight imperfection in the casting on that lower left leading edge. It doesn’t leak anywhere else and looks like it lays flat when I take it off to clean it.
Member
Twisty, how is your valve cover leak doing??
I just did mine, using the Felpro gasket and grommets. I found where my oil was getting out, it was actually one of the center grommets all the way at the firewall end. My center row nut/studs had a white residue on them that may be due to an antifungal additive they put in the rubber grommets. I wire brushed all my nuts and washers to prevent any gaps that could allow oil to escape. I also coated all my nut tops and one side of the washers with Zinc, this will keep them rust free (product called Brite Zinc). I didn't put a film of RTV along the bottom half of the head like I original was considering. But I did wait 30 minutes after applying the RTV to the needed areas to let it firm up before putting the VC on the engine.
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Do not use RTV sealant.
Use Permatex #2 non hardening Form-a-Gasket Sealant, sparingly.
Use OE, Elring Klinger, Febi (Bilstein) gaskets and fresh ‘donuts’.
Torque the valve cover shoulder bolts to 89 in-lbs.
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Last edited by bluptgm3; 06-29-2018 at 03:40 PM.
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Yeah, by RTV I mean Permatex Ultra Black (hi-temp, oil resistant, gasket maker, RTV). That's pretty much all I ever use, but I see Permatex has some new products that will do the job as well. RTV just means room temperature vulcanization.
https://www.permatex.com/products/ga...asket-maker-4/
Last edited by Eric93se; 06-29-2018 at 05:10 PM.
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Ummmm…no.
The ‘factory’ uses a product similar to this at the corners of the “half moons” and at the join of the VaNos cover to head.
https://www.permatex.com/products/ga...-no-2-sealant/
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Last edited by bluptgm3; 06-29-2018 at 07:04 PM.
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Looks like the Permatex Ultra Black surpasses the specs of the old Number2 product.
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My leak stopped. The second application of the BMW OE gasket did the trick. I did use Permatex RTV (ultra black) but just on the rear half moons and the leading edge where the vanos meets the cylinder head. I re-checked the VC for warping (couldn’t detect any) and lightly sanded the front perimeter where it meets the vanos. I think once the engine went through several heating/cooling intervals, the gasket swelled enough to fill any pitting gaps and the oil leak stopped. It was clearly coming from the front right (passenger side) of the head and leaking down onto the lower chain tensioner. I also let the whole thing set-up for 24 hours before driving the car. This probably helped with the RTV sealing.
Member
I know the thread is old, but these topics never get old. So hopefully someone will find this useful.
These are 2 different products with different applications. Gasket makers are used to replace a gasket. They should not be used with gaskets. Gasket sealants are used in conjunction with gaskets, to condition them and seal some gaps, transitions, edges etc.
Silicone RTV is a gasket maker. It will not adhere to a gasket if you use them together. It will slip and get displaced over time, being affected by heat, oil and engine vibrations.
Some sources indicate that BMW dealerships stopped using their OEM Drei Bond 1209, replacing it with Hylomar Blue (Permatex #85420 is direct equivalent).
This compound is non-setting, and is liquid when you apply it. Then it thickens over time but still remains very flexible. The benefit is that you don't have to clean/reapply if you choose to. You just put the parts back together and it continues to seal. Useful for racing applications where you continuously have to service components.
Permatex Hylomar #85420
Permatex No.2 #80011
Some mechanics use Permatex Aviation No.3 #80017, which also works great.
Important takeaway is that all these are sealants, not gasket makers. Use Gasket Makers only as a replacement for a gasket, in situations when you can't find a gasket (very custom, expensive or old product that isn't sold anymore), or when you want to form your own gasket in the area that has never had a gasket. You just "create" your own gasket with RTV, wait some time for it so set, and then attach the parts together.
Hope this helps.
Member
Fair point on the gasket sealer. I've never had trouble with RTV silicone Permatex. I recently started to let the product cure for 20-30 min to allow it to hold its shape so that it doesn't get squeezed out when applying pressure, it's still very soft and pliable but will not run out. It does adhere to both the aluminum surface as well as the rubber gasket itself. It's important to use very little on these types of applications where your just filling cracks in intersecting parts. It's a very versatile product. My Felpro VC gasket with Permatex has not leaked and I actually re-used it recently.
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