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Thread: Stupidity on my behalf/My M52B30 Build

  1. #1
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    Stupidity on my behalf/My M52B30 Build

    After my black 328 was wrecked by a hit and run lorry, I got payed out by insurance. And was told I had 21 days to add another 328 to my policy or my policy would be cancelled without refund. I found one with 177k Miles with a engine rebuild 5k miles ago. Avus blue 328i Sport, m50 + 330i cam combo, m54b30 rotating assembly crank,pistons, rods and apparently all new bearings, remapped ecu with EWS delete and "abs delete", m50 manifold pink injectors, 328 headers catless centre section and a m3 rear box. Bought the car on the basis it had an engine rebuild 500 miles ago and is at 270 BHP. Spoke to a few people about buying the car and the few concerns I had, Chris turned around and told me I should get a PPI and upon being ripped off my a random unknown mechanic from a different area I payed to do a pretty poor PPI, Chris turned around and told me to steer away from this vehicle.

    I however was so eager to see the car and it's power decided to go down and look at the car, took it for a drive, it drove perfectly fine and was as fast as hell. bought the car and on my way home the clutch crapped itself although it was installed 500 miles ago and the abs was fixed but deleted by the mapper on dme... the man told me the car was also serviced 500 miles ago and showed me the paperwork. Anyway took the clutch receipt got another kit under warranty and paid £200 labour and flat bed turned out that the guy hadn't tightened the pressure plate properly.. anyway got the car drove it around put my foot down a few times the gear selector got a little stiff and I would often have to force it into first and second gear.. that smoothed out eventually and I started hearing a very loud noise which didn't seem normal from the engine, decided to pull over and take a few videos and revved the motor and the noise got worse and worse as I revved. Sent the videos to Chris and he told me I was alone on this and he wont be replying to my emails or threads anymore so I pretty much didn't know what to do as I've made an expensive mistake. I started trying to start the car but turned out that the starter is kaboot and drawing too much power so I tried to start it with 3 cars together jump starting with no luck. Decided to push start it and that worked, revved the engine abit more and the noise got worse. So I decided to check the oil and found out the dipstick read just below minunium.. went to open the boot and found a empty oil bottle in my boot, so clearly previous owner knew something was up and lied to me and sold me the car.

    that doesn't justify my stupidity, being really helpless at that time of the night I decided to buy 4 litres of 10w40 synthetic oil from the petrol station and topped it up, 10 mins later I tried to start the engine by pushing the car down a slope and clutch dumped on second gear, it worked and the noise was still there... I don't know what was running through my mind but I decided to take the car round the block to see if the noise goes once the engine lubes up properly and it kind of got lower.. so I thought it was a good idea to drive it around for a few miles and once it was up to tempreture I decided I want to check if the power was still there and it kind of was but not like before as I got to 6k rpm and shifted to second the car stalled, tried to start it while it was still moving and clutch dumped with no luck.. pushed the car with 4 guys and clutch dumped no luck.. everytime I now try to push start the car the second I dump the clutch it feels like my brakes have locked up and the car would skid straight a little bit like abs locking up. Which I assume engine has seized ?

    moral of the story. Don't doubt what Chris says about buying a car and make sure you always get a proffesional PPI before you buy a car as it can save you and prevent my situation, make sure your PPI is a written report from a proffesional euro specialist garage and not some any Tom, dick and harry. And don't trust someone just because he's a 50 year old white man living in nice house with 3 expensive classic cars. And just because a car is fast don't forget to check the oil, water and inspect it properly. I made an expensive mistake and now really stuck. I really hope this doesn't happen to anyone else and please get a PPI, as now I'm Clueless with a nice looking 328 that I can't even drive.
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    Aren't you the guy with the "random" differential failure?
    So, a you drove a noisy engine that was reluctant to even start(I'm guessing bearings already spun and about to seize)and revved it to 6k to see if the noise would go away?
    Unless one has some sort of empathy for machinery high performance cars are not for you.
    Last edited by ross1; 12-11-2017 at 08:24 AM.

    If you can leave two black stripes from the exit of one corner to the braking zone of the next, you have enough horsepower. - Mark Donohue

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    It was an expensive mistake/experience. Do you believe the motor has seized? If so isit repairable?

    - - - Updated - - -

    If you send me your email I can email you the videos of how the engine sounded.
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    Tried to turn the crank by hand with a socket and a wrench and breaker bar. Wouldn't move clockwise or anti so I'm safe to say I seized the engine. Do you think I can get away with another crank and bearings?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ross1 View Post
    Aren't you the guy with the "random" differential failure?
    So, a you drove a noisy engine that was reluctant to even start(I'm guessing bearings already spun and about to seize)and revved it to 6k to see if the noise would go away?
    Unless one has some sort of empathy for machinery high performance cars are not for you.
    Ross, meet Mohammed. Mohammed asks all the right questions, and then ignores all the answers, from people he knows are really good. I don't know why I have kept trying to help him, when I've been told by several people that he's obviously a troll, just fkg with me. Shadowpuck and dworthy and I have been trying to help him, too, as he goes through the unpleasant stages of youthful car destruction. You remember, as we all do, I'm sure.

    But STILL, dammit, Mohammed.....WHY did you just fkg ignore me, after I spent much personal time, when I very clearly told you that you needed to walk away from this damned car???? Hell, man : I went so damned far as to tell you I'd never talk to you again !!!!!!!

    Mohammed, you are asking for help from a bunch of really good techs and racers and exceptionally knowledgeable owners and "don't do it for a living but WAY DAMNED GOOD" DIY people who are giving you their personal time, over and over.....and they are all genuinely giving you, for free, their very best experience and wisdom.


    I am only going to try, this one more time, because I believe that sometime, about when I was your age, I made more mistakes than you'll ever make. Um, lately, I'm doubting it, and thinking that perhaps my best friend is right, and that you're just trolling me, and these other good people.

    And, um, there's not a single piece of that engine or car which I would trust.

    Chris Powell
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  6. #6
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    People have suggested to not feed the troll. Have no clue why you adults continue playing the game.
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    So my .02 cents on the matter.

    We have a young man whom like most young men, want to know an answer. While us "old timers" like to explain how you get the answer and what he needs to do to go about getting the answer, he only want's an answer.

    Also we have a Driver, not a mechanic here. He doesn't have the tools nor the space to be able to work on his car, but want's the free advice so he can take the car to a mechanic to get it fixed without paying for the Diagnostic fee.

    Troll, maybe in the sense he doesn't follow the advice that is given perhaps.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmwdirtracer View Post
    I've been told by several people that he's obviously a troll, just fkg with me.
    the unpleasant stages of youthful car destruction. You remember, as we all do, I'm sure.
    I'm in agreement with Darin, not a troll per se but just as frustrating.
    My $.02 is he's spending another's $$ and yet to learn any responsibility. If a "troll" and fooled me, congratulations, quite an accomplishment, your folks must be proud.

    Moi? Oh boy do I remember the torture I heaped on machinery. The important difference being I was never surprised by the inevitable, sometimes cataclysmic failures that ensued.


    Mohammed,
    If, sir, your stories are real(they do strain credulity) I humbly suggest you either adjust your driving style, buying habits or bank account. No sympathy from here, sir.
    Last edited by ross1; 12-12-2017 at 10:50 AM.

    If you can leave two black stripes from the exit of one corner to the braking zone of the next, you have enough horsepower. - Mark Donohue

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    Sorry if anyone thinks I'm trolling and my deepest apology to anyone offended or who thinks I'm trolling them. I seriously need to buckle up my driving style and buying habits. Right now I have a seized engine and another engine in my wrecked 328 which I think is low on compression, while the DIY man I'm paying to do the engine swap, I want the engine to be rebuilt properly and I'm going to have the head skimmed, ported n polished with a valve overlap, I believe the block needs rehoning. I'm going to get new piston rings and also Conrod bearings and crankshaft bearings.. new head bolts and conrod bolts as I've read all the time they are one use only from Chris. Also a gasket set.. Isit wise to put a m54b30 crank piston and rods in my old engine and stroke it or no? Also have the s52 cams already on my old engine. Anymore suggestions of things to do while the engine is out? Please advise
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    Ross, so that you know, Mohammed pays his own bills, to the best of my knowledge. And, no, Darin, I don't actually think that Mohammed's a troll....and I sure as hell wouldn't be continuing to give him my time, if I thought he were.

    And, well, hell, I did some damned, um, silly stuff, when I was 22. At least the statute of limitations has long since expired.

    I've advised Mohammed to put the old car's engine into the new car.

    Chris Powell
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    Yes Chris, you and Darin are both on the same page with the old engine but last visit at the mechanic I was told my car was losing compression so I'm planning to rebuild, yes I pay my own bills every single penny of it which is why I don't have a brand new car, but a E36 and a half lol.

    - - - Updated - - -

    And thanks for the time Chris, Darin and Ross and anyone who's willing to help or not.
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    What brand/make bearings should I use? And also what brand/make. Piston rings ?
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    You need to be excruciatingly careful about the bearings. According to BMW, there are two different sides, each bought individually.....by color! I tried to mess with this, on two different occasions, trying to save the owner money, by buying OEM bearing sets.

    Both times, the bearings were WRONG, and the engine would have been ruined, had I used them.

    Both times, I ended up ordering the bearings from the dealer, using the VIN, and the bearings were correct. -- BUT ABSURDLY expensive. When I say absurdly expensive, I mean that two halves of ONE single rod bearing pair were the same cost as all twelve OEM labelled bearings.

    The OEM bearings on one occasion even came with completely incorrect locating tabs.

    Piston rings ; well, some manufacturers seem to get ring gap precisely correct, and some need the technician to machine the gap of every single compression ring. Certainly, you need to trust your engine builder to machine every ring gap perfectly, and measure every bearing clearance. Personally, I let the machine shop do all this....and THEN, I use Plastigage to recheck every clearance.

    Your engine builder's going to need to spend a bunch of time, checking all these clearances, and also setting the rings in precise positions, etc, etc.

    You should be aware that this rebuild will likely cost far more than the car did.

    Chris Powell
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    German Motors is hiring ! https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...1#post30831471

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    Thank You so much for the indepth reply Chris, for once I want to do everything right. I tried running my vin through the dealer and they told me I had either red or blue bearings and they didn't know which, and said the only way I would know is to look on the bearing caps in my engine... so I spoke to a few people and they said bmw/oem bearings are soft and not good for abusive driving as they only last for 60-100k miles max and if I got after market bearings, they would be too hard and wear out the crank.. I was thinking of going with kingrace bearings but they don't have any red or blue marks, also for the piston rings because I'm using a 330 piston and Darin has told me they are very notorious for burning oil and piston ring failure I thought I'd steer clear from oem/bmw ones ? I'm paying my DIY engine builder £1000 and the remaining of my wrecked car and the seized engine. He fit my s52 cams on my old engine, also he does a lot of jap engine building apparently so I kind of trust him and he's the best hope and only person on my budget right now.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I remember him saying he would be checking tolerances when I spoke to him on the phone but I didn't understand what that was, also I asked him to get the machine shop to do a valve job and he said okay. Is a valve job overlapping valves or isit cutting valves for performance.. I only heard it from you a few times, I want this engine to be a high performance lol.and what's the break in procedure, how many miles of easy driving and so on ?
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    Also my engine builder suggested I should use the m54 bearings that's coming with the crank as it's already matched to it (another rotating assembly and not my seized one) but I said no as I don't want to be having problems with this engine either.

    so far Im getting:
    full gasket kit
    new main bearings
    new big end bearings
    new piston rings
    used s52b32 cams already in the engine
    used m54b30 pistons
    used m54b30 crankshaft
    used m54b30 conrods


    machine shop:
    port and polish
    pressure test the head
    overlap valves/valvejob
    skim head
    skim block
    rehone block

    car already has
    m50 manifold
    simota carbon fibre cold air intake
    ews deleted ecu/dme with a tune and 7200 raised rev limiter
    Straight through exhaust from manifold to back box with two options of a s50b32 backbox welded on or longlife Stainless steel backbox.. only concern is the whole system from manifold to backbox on a 328 is 2.25" where as the m3 backbox and piping is 2.5" which means after the resonators where connecting to the backbox the pipes become larger won't that affect backpressure and rob power? The longlife system is 2.25"
    oh also I have a spare set of pink injectors now from seized engine which I'll be sending to RC engineering since you suggest it so much and a fresh engine deserves fresh injectors

    I'm also swapping in the fuel level sender from my old car along with the abs system!

    Also opinions what looks nicer on Avus blue beige interior or dove grey? Thanks so much guys


    anything else you suggest while engine is being built ?
    Last edited by WadiM3; 12-13-2017 at 09:30 PM.
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    "Port and polish" is not something you really want to repeat, to a machine shop. You see, a polished airflow surface does not make for the smoothest airflow. Instead, a top quality builder will create "surface turbulence"
    ....a boundary layer of slightly roughened surface, over which the main airflow travels smoothly.

    This can't be appropriately relayed to your builder, though; he'd already have to understand these dynamics, or he'll just think you're talking out of your butt.

    Attempting to re-create the air passages of the cylinder head without being fully familiar with the specific engine, and having achieved that knowledge with a FlowBench, will not serve you well. Many times a generic mechanic / "engine builder" will just hog out the passages, assuming that a bigger passage makes more power: AND THAT'S NOT USUALLY TRUE !


    Last item, for the night: When you're rebuilding an engine at great expense, including parts from several motors, you absolutely do NOT reuse the damned bearings, swapping them from one block to another. That would make me question the guy who's building your engine.

    Chris Powell
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    Thanks Chris, what do you think of king race bearings ?
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  18. #18
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    Never heard of them.

    Chris Powell
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    What else do you recommend I change in the engine while in there !
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmwdirtracer View Post
    "Port and polish" is not something you really want to repeat, to a machine shop. You see, a polished airflow surface does not make for the smoothest airflow. Instead, a top quality builder will create "surface turbulence"
    ....a boundary layer of slightly roughened surface, over which the main airflow travels smoothly.

    This can't be appropriately relayed to your builder, though; he'd already have to understand these dynamics, or he'll just think you're talking out of your butt.

    Attempting to re-create the air passages of the cylinder head without being fully familiar with the specific engine, and having achieved that knowledge with a FlowBench, will not serve you well. Many times a generic mechanic / "engine builder" will just hog out the passages, assuming that a bigger passage makes more power: AND THAT'S NOT USUALLY TRUE !

    .
    Exhaust ports do benefit from a polished surface. On intakes it causes atomized fuel to precipitate from the mix and lay on the ports walls.
    @OP Head work is best left to a specialist familiar with THIS engine. Each motor has it's own areas with room for improvement. My understanding is that BMW heads flow pretty well to start with so messing around could easily backfire.

    If you can leave two black stripes from the exit of one corner to the braking zone of the next, you have enough horsepower. - Mark Donohue

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    Makes sense, I'll get the builder to go with polishing the exhaust side, I'll see if he can do that rough porting thingy on the intake side if not I'll leave it standard. I've choosen to go with king race bearing big ends and mains as the standard size for them come without needing the bmw colours as I've spoken to a few bmw specialists and part suppliers. I'm abit unsure on the 330 piston rings but I think I'll go with Mahle ? Unless someone can suggest anything better! I'm really hoping my block isn't gonna rip the threads out on my old engine from the wrecked car

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also how do I break in an engine or run it in? I've researched many people say baby it, many others say run it hard and within 15-30 mins it should be broken loool I don't mean wrecked broken I mean as like when you can start to drive it properly, also when should I do the first oil and filter change ?
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    I don't necessarily agree with the exhaust port polishing....but it really doesn't matter. That's not going to be a big horsepower / torque maker, on a street engine, compared to the cost. Now, (I think ross will agree), MATCHING the ports at the exhaust manifold and head joint can make a BUNCH of difference, because the gasses won't "trip" over the edges.

    All that said, what you need to do is create a good, stable and strong engine. Forget spending bunches on polishing: spend the money on finding an excellent, and fastidious engine builder and machine shop. A top-quality valve job will do a whole lot more for you than polishing the exhaust ports.

    You're building a street engine: reliability is paramount, not an extra 2 horsepower.

    The most critical ingredient of a successful build will be the guy who puts it all together. He, and the machine shop, need to make sure that everything is perfectly measured. And, as ross and I agree, it's crucially important that the builder is very knowledgeable about THIS engine, not Jag V-12's.

    And, um, if you really want the engine to last, you will not insist on revving it beyond factory redline. Remember, even IF there's a bit more horsepower there, you'll find no more torque. And torque is acceleration. An inline 6 has a very long crankshaft, which can suffer from extended high-rpm use.

    Chris Powell
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    I agree sir! What do you mean matching the head and the exhaust manifold?

    how do I go about running in the new rebuilt engine ?
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  24. #24
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    What Chris means is you have to take the exhaust manifolds with the head, that why the machinist can match them together.
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    16 220i Active Tourer Platinsilver MET (C08)/Dakota Black (PDSW), P7ACA, P7LDA, P7LHA, P9BDA, 6sp Manual - Wife's new toy!
    05 325it Electric Red(438)/Gray(N6TT) ZCW, ZSP 5sp Manual Back set cover, trunk mat, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield, and mud flaps! Mr. Wagon My new Winter car.
    05 M3 Imolarot II(405)/Gray(N5TT) ZCW, ZPP 6sp Manual C.F. Lip, CSL diffuser, SSK, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield and a trunk liner! Mr. Go_Fast Stored for the Winter
    Past:
    95 318is Montreal Blue Met (297)/Beige(K1SN) RIP, killed by an Idiot.
    84 M535i gray market Burgandy Rot Met/Black Leather Lowered by Intrax on bilies, poly everywhere, B&B cat back system, K&N, and a hitch! Da Beast - Still running w/400k+!
    91 316i euro Tizianrot/Gray cloth - E-36 w/M-40 RIP, but great on gas! Best was 38 MPG
    82 528i euro Saphire Blue Met/Blue Leather RIP
    79 525 euro Green/Green RIP
    79 318 Silver/Black - The first one that got it all started
    M-Flight Member

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    NW suburban Chicago
    Posts
    16,302
    My Cars
    hiss by my window
    I'd like to start a pool. How long will this engine live?

    If you can leave two black stripes from the exit of one corner to the braking zone of the next, you have enough horsepower. - Mark Donohue

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